12:07:24 RRSAgent has joined #poe 12:07:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/18-poe-irc 12:07:27 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:07:27 Zakim has joined #poe 12:07:29 Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference 12:07:29 Date: 18 September 2017 12:08:36 Chair: Renato 12:08:41 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170918 12:08:54 ivan has changed the topic to: agenda 2017-09-18: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170918 12:10:07 LindaB has joined #poe 12:10:16 present+ 12:16:42 renato has joined #poe 12:28:26 michaelS has joined #poe 12:29:05 present+ 12:29:18 present+ 12:29:32 Chair: Renato 12:30:30 present+ 12:32:12 victor has joined #poe 12:32:15 hi 12:32:19 present+ 12:32:38 CarolineB has joined #poe 12:32:55 present+ CarolineB 12:33:42 benws_ has joined #poe 12:33:53 present+ 12:34:19 https://www.w3.org/2017/09/14-poe-minutes 12:34:20 Topic: Approve last Thursday minutes 12:34:35 scribe: CarolineB 12:34:42 scribenick: CarolineB 12:34:49 Minutes apporved 12:35:05 Topic: Testing regime 12:35:16 https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/test/test-regime.md 12:35:36 renato: while we wait for CR approval - we can look at improving this test regime 12:36:48 ... lets have dry run internally first - usign implementers in teh group 12:37:05 s/usign/using 12:37:49 benws_: where do we want to move on to 12:38:03 reanto: so that non members can understand how to test 12:38:13 s/reanto/renato 12:39:03 benws_: is what we have now enough? 12:39:27 simonstey has joined #poe 12:39:43 michaelS: a result template would be good. 12:40:13 present+ 12:40:44 ... ivan: who will combine the results into an imlpementation report. they could tell us waht format woudl be best 12:41:26 https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/data-shapes-test-suite/#implementation-reports 12:41:28 ivan: we have n features that must be implemented, Report must list these. 12:41:57 ... a table with green and red cells is common. It shows which implementation does which 12:42:40 q+ 12:42:48 ... Implementors could provide this table themselves (including ideally reasons why something was not implemented) 12:43:32 ... Commercial implementors may not need to make everything public, but we should see 12:43:46 reanto: we have a list of features - exit criteria 12:44:04 s/reanto/renato 12:44:55 ivan: we have more tests than features, so we could map features to tests - two level hierarchy 12:46:09 q? 12:46:13 ack michaelS 12:46:55 michaelS: q re ODRL implementation page - tehre are two roles, publisher, consumer - do both roles have to be covered? 12:47:12 renato: we can remove that - its from a while ago 12:47:46 michaelS: Is it sufficient to just evaluate but not create policies? 12:47:55 example report (annotation wg): https://w3c.github.io/test-results/annotation-model/all.html 12:48:21 renato: that is fine 12:48:47 q+ 12:48:55 ivan: here are the examples we should list 12:50:12 ... then there is a big table that lists examples. There are many yellows where it didn't address features. Otehrwsie green 12:50:26 q? 12:50:30 ack michaelS 12:51:19 michaelS: Is workgin on an implementation. What should we do about constraints. Should all variants be tested and shown? 12:51:30 s/workgin/working 12:51:48 benws_: thats what we do with the evaluator 12:52:20 michaelS: It isn't in the IM. Put it on the evaluation page? 12:52:59 ivan: is asking for a volunteer... 12:53:57 renato: Yes. We'll need list of features, broken into test cases, advice to implementors. Get table ready 12:54:45 ivan: understands most implementors from this group, so we could all take part as we add bits to the table 12:55:07 benws_: will map features to exit criteria 12:55:52 renato: victor has 76 examples - map these to features? 12:56:33 benws_: there are 42 tests 12:56:52 ivan: so roughly 100 - which is manageable 12:58:04 michaelS: october/november is very busy, so I wouldn't be available at the right time 12:58:52 renato: suggests - in short term - if Michael and Ben work to get tests and features into one page 12:59:03 ... on GitHub 12:59:43 ivan: can we use the example I have put up? Then people coudl fill data into it themsleves. 13:00:14 renato: so a page with all features and test cases under each for implementors to fill in would work 13:00:59 ivan: Excel is good - can we use Google Docs? 13:01:09 I agree with Renato, I can help. I agree with Ivan, we can have a Google spreadsheet. 13:01:11 https://www.ctan.org/pkg/excel2latex?lang=en excel 2 latex fwiw 13:01:25 michaelS: we use Google sheets and I have a python sheet to turn into html or markdown 13:01:30 ivan: excellent! 13:02:40 FYI: ODRL V1.1 in Chinese: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzVxGpAd27SqMGY4NzcwMTItNTZkMy00Y2Q5LWEwOWEtNzYxNGFiOWIxYTI4/view 13:03:38 renato: Michael will start off with Victor and Ben (Chinese only optional) 13:04:27 ivan: What about the SHACL stuff? 13:04:54 renato: Is this only for SHACL tool users? 13:05:53 simonstey: idea with SHACL testcases - to see if you really implement a feature. 13:05:56 ... You can run your output against SHACL shapes 13:06:52 ... ... useful when implementation is not open 13:07:45 ivan: so is shacl not part of the official / necessary testing? 13:08:42 simonstey: If we make it a requirement then people without shacl capability could not test. So not mandatory 13:09:06 https://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#cr-exit 13:09:39 renato: the other one is vocab. there are 4 in the exit criteria 13:10:24 ivan: So we pick 2 independent schema validators, run the ontology through some of the tools. Same for Json LD 13:11:52 ivan: has the Ontology gone through Protege? (yes) so we can check its consistent for first two bullet points 13:12:41 victor: I removed the test from the validator because it took 15 secs (too long for everyday) 13:12:55 Also, my OWL profiler here http://owlprofiler.appspot.com/ 13:13:17 uses OWLAPI to check the profiles --and as a side task validates consistency 13:13:44 renato: So now, we get the features and test cases documented so that implementors can add their notes 13:13:47 That's the Google sheet for the implementation results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I2-qht3KRjkIvwdvsfkAMq4AJ0FXjn3Wl5mH-tPe5bs/edit?usp=sharing 13:14:54 renato: maybe sort to list features first? 13:16:30 renato: who can supply implementation reports? 13:16:50 +1. The difficult part will be starting the table, it will be easy to complete it after a few "examples" are available 13:17:16 simonstey: looking into it - needs to check - not an implementation in a classical sense 13:18:27 benws_: we're very distributed so may need to massage to get the test results we want 13:20:12 simonstey: there may be some implementations that can ignore e.g. missing assigner.. 13:20:35 michaelS: will talk to Stuart and knwo more later 13:20:43 s/knwo/know 13:21:43 simonstey: re timings - we had issues with firewalls blocking 13:22:05 what about the API? well, I'll ask you by email... 13:22:20 renato: Micahel will work with rest of team to get spreadsheet up so we can review next week 13:22:42 s/Micahel/Michael/ 13:22:50 *thanks! 13:23:28 Topic: Open Actions 13:23:52 renato: Ben. Do you want to close the couple that are for you? 13:24:08 Topic: CR request 13:24:35 having a meeting with directors coming up - if all goes well we can publish for 26th 13:25:58 bye bye! 13:26:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:26:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/18-poe-minutes.html ivan 13:26:11 trackbot, end telcon 13:26:11 Zakim, list attendees 13:26:11 As of this point the attendees have been LindaB, renato, michaelS, ivan, victor, CarolineB, benws_, simonstey 13:26:19 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:26:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/18-poe-minutes.html trackbot 13:26:20 RRSAgent, bye 13:26:20 I see no action items