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12:01:26 <kaz> rrsagent, bye
12:01:26 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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12:01:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-irc
12:01:32 <McCool> present+ Michael_McCool
12:01:38 <kaz> Meeting: WoT IG/WG
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12:01:51 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Uday_Davuluru
12:02:22 <kaz> present+ Matthias_Kovatsch
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12:03:59 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:04:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft mintues
12:04:05 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:04:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:04:12 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft mintues//
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12:05:55 <DarkoAnicic> present+ DarkoAnicic
12:06:23 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Kazuo_Kajimoto, Niklas_Widell
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12:10:31 <mkovatsc> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Agenda
12:11:03 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
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12:13:33 <kaz> present+ Barry_Leiba
12:13:50 <mkovatsc> Matsukura-san, are you working on audio?
12:15:31 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
12:15:36 <McCool> topic: quick updates
12:15:44 <McCool> kaz: status of fpwd
12:16:09 <McCool> monday, found some minors issues, talked with editors got some clarification
12:16:24 <McCool> but will be working with editors, and will get them published tomorrow
12:16:35 <McCool> mk: dave offered to write a blog
12:16:41 <McCool> we are still deciding where it will go
12:16:43 <kaz> s/editors/the webmaster/
12:17:08 <kaz> mk: mm, workshop status?
12:17:12 <kaz> mm: 2 proposals
12:17:23 <kaz> ... talked with the other proposer
12:17:33 <kaz> ... updated our proposal a bit
12:17:47 <kaz> ... to merge the 2 workshops together
12:17:57 <kaz> ... will circulate the updated proposal to the group
12:18:21 <kaz> ... we have to submit a paper to the NDSS workshop ourselves
12:18:34 <kaz> ... the other is IoT security
12:18:47 <kaz> ... security across various standards
12:18:56 <kaz> ... focus on Web of Things
12:19:18 <kaz> ... going to have to work on another proposal for IEEE workshop
12:19:28 <kaz> mk: what is the motivation for the 2nd one?
12:19:36 <kaz> mm: focus on standards
12:19:51 <kaz> ... NDSS one is broader
12:20:02 <kaz> ... would have more focused workshop for IEEE
12:20:33 <kaz> ... for NDSS workshop, paper deadline is in 2 months
12:20:45 <kaz> ... IEEE S&P is May
12:20:49 <kaz> ... much more time for review
12:21:11 <kaz> ... would generated an updated proposal for IEEE
12:21:38 <kaz> ... presenting at NDSS and get people involved
12:21:43 <kaz> ... and invite them to IEEE one
12:21:54 <kaz> i/workshop status?/scribenick: kaz/
12:21:55 <McCool> mm: I will distribute the revised proposal; could use some more topics related to WoT if you have any suggestions
12:22:22 <kaz> i/I will distribute/scribenick: McCool/
12:23:04 <McCool> topic: plugfest and tpac and next steps for wg
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12:23:50 <kaz> present+ Yongjing_Zhang
12:23:59 <McCool> mk: now we have released fpwd
12:24:03 <kaz> Chair: Matthias, McCool, Kajimoto, Yongjing
12:24:12 <McCool> ... some changes; want to get plugfest aligned with the fpwd
12:24:18 <kaz> present+ Kazuaki_Nimura
12:24:28 <McCool> ... so one goal is that we want to update node-wot to match the fpwd
12:24:51 <McCool> ... would also like to target the scenarios as well
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12:25:08 <McCool> ... does anyone see any blockers for updating their implementations
12:25:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:25:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:25:14 <McCool> ... to match the fpwd
12:25:23 <McCool> ... asking implementors and leads
12:25:28 <McCool> q+
12:25:59 <McCool> kajimoto: what is viable target for plugfest implementors?
12:26:21 <kaz> q+
12:26:57 <McCool> ... consensus on what is viable
12:27:20 <McCool> ... thing description, changes at the plugfest every time
12:27:30 <McCool> ... so what is standard to define interoperability
12:27:47 <McCool> ... defined current practices as viable... but now we have fpwd
12:28:10 <kaz> q?
12:28:12 <kaz> ack mc
12:28:28 <mkovatsc> q+
12:28:37 <McCool> mm: do you want to define a subset of the fpwd for the plugfest?
12:28:43 <McCool> kajimoto: yes
12:29:02 <kaz> present+ Keiichi_Tokuyama
12:29:05 <McCool> ... first step, update current practices to fpwd
12:29:14 <McCool> ... for thing description
12:29:24 <McCool> ... adding security support
12:29:42 <McCool> ... define purposes for next plugfest to prove concepts
12:30:14 <McCool> kaz: proposing organizing and orchestrating plugfest as a starting point
12:30:27 <McCool> ... but not sure we need a profile or a minimum subset
12:30:35 <McCool> ... would like some clairification
12:30:56 <McCool> mk: about current practices document, have some responses
12:31:14 <kaz> q?
12:31:16 <kaz> ack k
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12:31:48 <McCool> kajimoto: use cases are good... but we should have some guidelines or standards for how to describe our semantics
12:32:05 <McCool> ... the current practices document was good to have something to target
12:32:18 <McCool> ... but now we have the td only, less specific
12:32:38 <dape> q+
12:32:59 <kaz> q+
12:33:02 <McCool> ... would like to update the current practices document to match the fpwd
12:33:25 <McCool> mk: overall, have plan that current practices needs to be adapted
12:33:28 <dape> ack dape
12:33:38 <McCool> ... but main content is now in fpwd; normative content is there
12:33:54 <McCool> ... but there are some primary and secondary features; we should define which is which
12:34:05 <McCool> ... and it would also be useful to set some goals, for instance
12:34:21 <McCool> ... to describe their security features, test thing, use cases
12:34:40 <mkovatsc> ack mkovatsc
12:34:45 <McCool> ... would this solve some of your issues?
12:34:49 <McCool> kajimoto: yes
12:34:58 <McCool> kaz: mk has mostly covered my point
12:35:21 <McCool> ... we probably should update the current practices with whatever is not covered in other fpwd documents
12:35:24 <kaz> ack k
12:35:43 <McCool> topic: plugfest update
12:35:58 <McCool> matsukura: plugfest update, sharing screen
12:36:40 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/att-0005/Issues_for_TPAC_plugfest_170913.pptx Matsukura-san's slides
12:37:04 <McCool> See issue #346
12:37:58 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/346 Issue 346
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12:38:14 <McCool_> topic: plugfest update
12:38:25 <McCool_> scribenick: McCool_
12:38:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:38:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:38:48 <McCool_> matsukura: three kinds of servient
12:39:15 <McCool_> ... exposed thing, consumed thing, servient (gateway)
12:39:32 <McCool_> ... also integration model, 3-layer, 4-layer
12:40:26 <McCool_> ... issues: interfaces between servients, authentication, discovery, TD exchange,
12:40:34 <McCool_> ... NAT and firewall traversal
12:40:42 <McCool_> ... event operation
12:40:56 <McCool_> ... finally, TD management issues
12:40:59 <dape> q+ to CP and authentication
12:41:59 <McCool_> ... for TD management, how to create URI, who manages TD and how
12:43:33 <McCool_> ... call for participation, want to accelerate preparation, share information
12:44:00 <McCool_> ... so please share information about what you plan to do
12:44:52 <mkovatsc> q+
12:44:54 <McCool_> q+
12:45:09 <kaz> q+
12:45:33 <McCool_> dape: mentioned authentication... some content used quite a while ago
12:45:47 <McCool_> ... but not sure if it is still the state of the art
12:46:08 <kaz> -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices-duesseldorf-2017.html current practice doc
12:46:17 <McCool_> mk: mechanism in current practices is just one way of how it could be done
12:46:29 <McCool_> ... but really we want to describe what is existing
12:46:39 <McCool_> ... rather than defining our own mechanisms
12:46:49 <McCool_> ... main comment is also about management of TDs
12:47:04 <McCool_> ... we have a Thing Directory... at the moment is standalone
12:47:16 <McCool_> ... but could also be merged with a (cloud) servient
12:47:33 <kaz> ack dape
12:47:33 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to CP and authentication
12:47:34 <McCool_> ... but might also have a sparql endpoing
12:47:35 <kaz> ack mk
12:47:41 <McCool_> to support semantic search
12:48:01 <McCool_> matsukuru: some variations are possible
12:48:04 <McCool_> mk: could be included
12:48:16 <McCool_> ... logically it could be a separate component
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12:48:20 <mkovatsc> q?
12:48:38 <kaz> mm: exposed OCF device as a Thing
12:48:44 <kaz> ... including CoAP as protocol
12:48:55 <kaz> ... question about security metada
12:49:18 <kaz> ... various decision to make about devices
12:49:28 <kaz> ... mechanisms for authentication
12:49:44 <kaz> ... we could for further
12:49:55 <kaz> ... we should pick examples
12:50:07 <kaz> ack mc
12:50:21 <kaz> i/exposed/scribenick: kaz/
12:50:25 <McCool_> mm: I think we should pick some other platforms and figure out how to support them
12:50:35 <dsr> q+ to comment on work for TPAC on plain JSON and WebSocket based messaging protocol and ask about specific goals for interoperability testing
12:51:11 <kaz> mm: interested in Amazon Alexa interface
12:51:28 <kaz> ... that's doable but don't want to identify any devices
12:51:35 <kaz> ... need to find out how to handle discovery
12:51:43 <kaz> ... more than one Thing Directory
12:52:00 <kaz> i/Amazon/scribenick: kaz
12:52:24 <kaz> mk: Thing Directory could be a good entry point
12:52:38 <kaz> mm: multiple directories
12:52:46 <kaz> ... starting with one entry point
12:52:57 <kaz> ... can be a working assumption
12:53:00 <zkis> q+ regarding OCF devices provisioning and CMS
12:53:00 <McCool_> mm: I want to build an Alexa service that can discover things and talk to them in a generic way
12:53:13 <zkis> q+
12:53:14 <McCool_> mk: good working assumption is one Thing Directory
12:53:17 <kaz> i/want to/scribenick: McCool_
12:53:41 <McCool_> mk: if there is more than one, they could still have a single front end and delegate, but we don't plan to do that for plugfest
12:53:53 <McCool_> kaz: do we need an additional document
12:54:01 <kaz> s/document/document?/
12:54:08 <McCool_> matsukura: yes, we need an additional document
12:54:22 <McCool_> ... need a specification
12:54:29 <kaz> s/document/document in addition to the PlugFest wiki/
12:55:33 <McCool_> ... we do want another document... but were?  wiki?  markdown?  expand current practices document?
12:55:45 <McCool_> mk: propose re-expanding the current practices document
12:56:18 <McCool_> mk: but ultimately should go into arch... but current practices can be used to draft things
12:56:18 <kaz> ack k
12:56:21 <kaz> ack d
12:56:21 <Zakim> dsr, you wanted to comment on work for TPAC on plain JSON and WebSocket based messaging protocol and ask about specific goals for interoperability testing
12:56:44 <McCool_> dsr: hope to collaborate with mozilla... websockets, etc
12:56:51 <kaz> q+
12:56:54 <McCool_> ... mozilla hopes to bring some actual devices
12:57:04 <McCool_> ... dsr to bring some simulated devices
12:57:11 <dsr> see: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2017Sep/0006.html
12:57:22 <McCool_> ... wants to see us as a group to clarify our goals for interop testing
12:57:38 <McCool_> ... dsr also looking at "plain JSON" description in collab with mozilla
12:58:09 <McCool_> ... unfortunately ben is unavailable for now... dsr not ready to share
12:58:16 <McCool_> mk: would be better to share early
12:58:18 <McCool_> q+
12:58:35 <McCool_> dsr: is plain JSON aspect, is also web socket aspect
12:58:53 <McCool_> mk: can the ws aspect be aligned with panasonic?
12:59:21 <McCool_> kajimoto: can you explain the current situation with ws communication?
12:59:50 <McCool_> ... (asking panasonic members)
13:00:33 <McCool_> ... have a document that panasonic sent to mozilla
13:00:45 <McCool_> ... need to understand the differences in the approaches, is useful
13:01:55 <McCool_> tokuyama: have to confirm these topics with rest of panasonic team and communications with mozilla
13:02:17 <mkovatsc> q?
13:02:18 <McCool_> ... but waiting for response from mozilla
13:02:31 <McCool_> ... have already sent some material to them
13:02:56 <McCool_> mk: best if moz and panasonic can collaborate directly
13:03:12 <McCool_> kaz: probably should send official invitation
13:03:23 <McCool_> dsr: we already talked to them about this
13:03:36 <McCool_> ... they are just waiting for internal authorization
13:03:58 <McCool_> ... so we already talked about this; can send another email, but already aware
13:04:09 <McCool_> kaz: point is they should enter their information on the wiki etc.
13:04:22 <McCool_> dsr: yes, but they are still waiting for internal approval
13:04:29 <McCool_> kaz: ok, will send a reminder
13:04:41 <McCool_> dsr: but they are away until the end of the month
13:04:52 <McCool_> kaz: please cc me when you contact him
13:05:03 <McCool_> q?
13:05:03 <mkovatsc> q?
13:05:04 <kaz> q?
13:05:07 <kaz> ack kaz
13:05:37 <McCool_> zkis: security and provisioning; even though we are not provising them, we still need to get client keys, etc. to talk to OCF devices
13:05:44 <McCool_> ... so that is non-trivial
13:06:10 <McCool_> ... we will have to provide some guidelines on how to do it
13:06:12 <kaz> s/provising/provisioning/
13:06:31 <McCool_> mm: and I'm not sure where we find OCF implementations that actually do this...
13:06:48 <McCool_> mk: anyone who brings device needs to figure this out
13:06:55 <mkovatsc> q?
13:07:00 <kaz> ack zk
13:07:11 <McCool_> ... the credentials can't go into TD, they have to be provisioned somehow
13:07:24 <McCool_> ack m
13:07:35 <McCool_> mk: ok, out of time...
13:08:01 <McCool_> mk: please do update info
13:08:15 <McCool_> ... even seimens has to do this
13:08:18 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_4-10_November_2017,_Burlingame,_CA,_USA#PlugFest_.284-5_Nov_2017.29 plugfest wiki
13:08:26 <McCool_> ... and next to-do is to update the current practices
13:08:46 <kaz> -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html current practices
13:08:48 <McCool_> ... with focus on use cases
13:09:23 <kaz> mm: question on node-wot release?
13:09:31 <McCool_> mm: what is timing of node-wot updates?
13:09:39 <kaz> s/mm: question on node-wot release?//
13:09:50 <McCool_> mk: will only be done just before the plugfest...
13:10:08 <McCool_> ... will have to use current systems, and intercept
13:10:28 <McCool_> ... need to work on a roadmap after cleanup
13:11:01 <McCool_> mm: good topic for next meeting
13:11:09 <McCool_> mk: may not be available next two weeks...
13:11:25 <McCool_> dape: hope we can get it done sooner than two weeks before the plugfest
13:11:39 <McCool_> mk: would also be good to get test thing done early
13:11:49 <McCool_> ... and that has a dependency on the scripting api
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13:12:33 <McCool_> mm: also, McCool to chair next two meetings, Matthias will not be available
13:12:45 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:13:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-wot-minutes.html kaz
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