IRC log of forms on 2017-09-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:54:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #forms
12:54:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-forms-irc
12:54:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:54:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #forms
12:54:45 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:54:45 [trackbot]
Date: 13 September 2017
12:54:58 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0029
12:55:06 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0029
12:55:12 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
12:59:36 [pfennell]
pfennell has joined #forms
13:00:26 [alain]
alain has joined #forms
13:04:57 [alain]
No
13:05:09 [pfennell]
No
13:09:04 [ebruchez]
we can hear you
13:10:13 [pfennell]
Erik and I can hear each other so the problem is still with you Steven.
13:12:34 [Steven_]
Steven_ has joined #forms
13:16:08 [Steven]
Steven has joined #forms
13:17:59 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2134: Add the two email types to the spec
13:17:59 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0002
13:18:04 [Steven]
Steven: THis is done
13:18:18 [Steven]
s/TH/Th
13:18:56 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2131: Adopt new validation rule in text
13:18:56 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0011
13:19:02 [Steven]
Steven: Also done
13:19:54 [Steven]
Topic: context information for action-error on actions with IDREF
13:19:54 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0012
13:22:37 [Steven]
Steven: What should the value of error-type be?
13:22:54 [Steven]
Erik: I think we treat it as a binding error in other places.
13:23:00 [Steven]
... see if I can find an example
13:23:34 [Steven]
... maybe I'm wrong
13:25:11 [Steven]
Erik: A separate value would be preferable.
13:25:16 [Steven]
Steven: ID-error?
13:25:22 [Steven]
Erik: yes, or idref
13:25:30 [Steven]
Steven: OK
13:25:50 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to make errortype for bad IDs idref-error
13:25:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2137 - Make errortype for bad ids idref-error [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:26:10 [Steven]
Topic: setvalue context information for action-error
13:26:10 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0013
13:27:12 [Steven]
Steven: Two different values?
13:27:21 [Steven]
Erik: We don't need to be that sepcific I think
13:27:30 [Steven]
... let me see if there is a precendent
13:27:36 [Steven]
s/nd/d/
13:28:07 [Steven]
Erik: let's make something up
13:28:45 [Steven]
Steven: setvalue-error?
13:30:04 [Steven]
Erik: There is a similar case with submission
13:30:12 [Steven]
... replace="text"
13:31:03 [Steven]
... target-non-element in that case.
13:31:18 [Steven]
... so it is different, since setelement can set attributes as well
13:31:47 [Steven]
... maybe reuse "target-xxx"
13:32:00 [Steven]
... target-children
13:32:05 [Steven]
... abit specific.
13:32:10 [Steven]
s/abit/a bit/
13:32:42 [Steven]
... just make it up
13:32:56 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to assign anj error name to the settarget errors
13:32:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2138 - Assign anj error name to the settarget errors [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:33:12 [Steven]
Topic: Email type
13:33:12 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0018
13:34:39 [Steven]
Erik: I fully agre that the user doesn't have to do work
13:34:44 [Steven]
s/agre/agree/
13:35:15 [Steven]
Erik: If the user types leading and trailing spaces, it should not give an error
13:35:32 [Steven]
... whitespace MIP deals with this
13:36:04 [Steven]
... for most fields if not all, you want spacing to be normalised
13:36:25 [Steven]
... and then you don't need spaces in the type.
13:37:24 [Steven]
Steven: if incremental="true" then a trailing space would give a validation error, which will go if you tab away.
13:37:27 [Steven]
... rather odd.
13:38:04 [Steven]
Erik: Yes there is a tension in this case.
13:38:41 [Steven]
... it's a general problem.
13:39:02 [Steven]
... We would solve it for email, and not for the other cases.
13:39:47 [Steven]
Erik: It is seldom that you use incremental.
13:40:31 [Steven]
Steven: So in fact, you would paste the email, and tab away, whitespace MIP would come into effect, and so wouldn't show up as a validation error.
13:40:35 [Steven]
Erik: Yes
13:40:52 [Steven]
Steven: You have convinced me.
13:41:14 [Steven]
Erik: the other data types that we import don't include spaces, so this shouldn't either.
13:41:35 [Steven]
Topic: Telephone number type
13:41:35 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0016
13:41:35 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0028
13:41:48 [Steven]
Steven: Do we think it's worth adding?
13:41:56 [Steven]
Erik: Clearly useful.
13:42:09 [Steven]
... we don't have such a type.
13:42:25 [Steven]
... We are investigating.
13:43:19 [Steven]
... we want to do more than syntax checking but also semantic properties
13:44:13 [Steven]
Steven: Comparable to how we do credit cards, one part that does the syntax, and a constraint function that checks the semantics.
13:45:20 [Steven]
Erik: So the question is whether a syntax check is enough.
13:46:33 [Steven]
Steven: The type does a basic level of consistency checking
13:47:00 [Steven]
... even with emails, you don't know if it is a real email address until you have sent an email and got a reply.
13:48:30 [Steven]
Erik: With dates, we have an internal form and a localised external form. This might also be the case for phone numbers.
13:51:13 [Steven]
Erik: I'm not sure if you want brackets and dashes in the data.
13:53:11 [Steven]
Steven: If you are all OK with adding it.
13:53:32 [Steven]
Alain: I'm OK with it. There is an issue with formatting.
13:53:40 [Steven]
... it's not that easy.
13:53:47 [Steven]
Philip: I'm OK too.
13:53:57 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to add telephone datatype.
13:53:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2139 - Add telephone datatype. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:55:14 [Steven]
Topic: Dynamic dependencies
13:55:14 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Mar/0012
13:55:14 [Steven]
[Awaiting an example]
13:55:20 [Steven]
Steven: Just a reminder
13:55:26 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
13:55:52 [Steven]
Steven: I'm giving a lecture at the Royal College of Art in two weeks time, so there will be a call next week, but not the week after.
13:55:56 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
13:56:15 [Steven]
Present: Alain, Erik, Philip, Steven
13:56:25 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:56:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:49:31 [ebruchez]
ebruchez has joined #forms
16:16:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #forms