15:01:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #vcwg
15:01:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-irc
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15:01:54 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
15:02:07 <nage> present+ Nathan_George
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15:03:03 <manu> present+ Manu_Sporny
15:03:04 <TallTed> present+ Ted_Thibodeau
15:03:12 <manu> Meeting: Verifiable Claims Working Group Telecon
15:03:17 <varn> varn has joined #vcwg
15:03:20 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:03:47 <stonematt> stonematt has joined #vcwg
15:03:53 <varn> Matt is chairing and will be a little late.  will start at 5 after.
15:04:02 <manu> Chair: Matt_Stone
15:04:15 <manu> Present+ Chris_Webber
15:04:19 <manu> Present+ Richard_Varn
15:04:28 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:04:40 <manu> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2017Sep/0008.html
15:04:41 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:05:46 <Colleen> Colleen has joined #vcwg
15:05:58 <Colleen> present+ colleen_kennedy
15:05:59 <dlongley> Present+ Dave_Longley
15:06:10 <manu> scribe: varn
15:06:35 <manu> Topic: Agenda Review
15:06:48 <manu> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2017Sep/0008.html
15:07:25 <manu> Topic: Introductions and Re-Introductions
15:08:13 <JoeAndrieu> JoeAndrieu has joined #vcwg
15:08:17 <kimhd> Present+ Kim_Duffy
15:08:31 <MattLarson> MattLarson has joined #vcwg
15:09:27 <manu> No intros and reintroductions... we all know each other.
15:09:31 <manu> Topic: W3C TPAC
15:11:22 <manu> Present+ Joe_Andrieu
15:11:26 <manu> Present+ Matt_Larson
15:11:29 <varn> Stone:  TPAC please register now.  We need topics or issues that need face to face dialog
15:11:40 <stonematt> https://goo.gl/8voHZS
15:11:46 <stonematt> TPAC topics
15:11:52 <ChristopherA> Present+ ChristopherA
15:11:58 <JoeAndrieu> Present+ Joe_Andrieu
15:12:05 <TallTed> that's a protected Gdoc...
15:12:08 <manu> rrsagent, make minutes
15:12:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:12:11 <ChristopherA> q+
15:12:15 <manu> s/that's a protected Gdoc...//
15:12:27 <manu> s/https://goo.gl/8voHZS//
15:12:44 <manu> TPAC Agenda: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/161h0QO8QODtS04eyLQqc6errV7RamcbS-xOPJL6S0g0/edit
15:12:47 <varn> Stone: use the document above to add TPAC topics with special attention to the kind of topics that would benefit from having white board discussion and robust interaction in person as well as those that are high priority
15:12:59 <DavidC> DavidC has joined #vcwg
15:13:17 <varn> Stone:  note in your TPAC issues list how much time you think it will take
15:13:45 <stonematt> q?
15:13:51 <varn> Stone:  we will prioritize these as we get closer to the event
15:14:02 <varn> Who is talking?
15:14:09 <stonematt> ChristopherA
15:14:49 <varn> ChristopherA: want to know if there will be a time for a VC interest group discussion and joint gathering
15:14:58 <stonematt> q?
15:15:07 <stonematt> ack ChristopherA
15:15:20 <varn> Stone:  yes, we would lie to schedule interaction with the VG IG
15:15:29 <varn> like, not lie
15:15:45 <manu> s/lie to/like to/
15:15:51 <manu> s/like, not lie//
15:15:54 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:15:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:16:03 <ChristopherA> https://github.com/WebOfTrustInfo/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-fall2017/tree/master/topics-and-advance-readings
15:16:15 <manu> Present+ David_Chadwick
15:16:27 <stonematt> present+ MattStone
15:16:38 <varn> ChristopherA:  rebooting web of trust upcoming and please use link above to read up for meeting on Oct 3-5 in Boston
15:16:41 <manu> s/colleen_kennedy/Colleen_Kennedy/
15:16:54 <manu> s/MattStone/Matt_Stone/
15:16:56 <ChristopherA> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/rebootingweboftrust-design-workshop-v-fall-2017-in-boston-area-usa-tickets-34984665075
15:16:58 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:16:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:17:08 <manu> q+
15:17:24 <stonematt> ack manu
15:18:02 <ChristopherA> #RebootingWebOfTrust is all interactive
15:18:25 <varn> Manu: test suite, candidate recommendation--what is needed to finish should be on list
15:18:44 <JoeAndrieu> where is additional TPAC information about what is happening which day? The W3.org info mentioned the Plenary on Wednesday, but when will VCWG events be occuring?
15:18:50 <varn> Manu:  open id and saml coordination needs work
15:19:39 <varn> Manu: VC use cases and various news organizations expressing interest in joining to help with verifiable sources and stories in news to combat fake news
15:19:55 <stonematt> q?
15:20:19 <stonematt> q?
15:20:29 <manu> JoeAndrieu - https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/
15:20:55 <manu> q+ to answer Joe's question.
15:21:15 <dlongley> q?
15:21:22 <dlongley> q?
15:21:33 <varn> JoeAndrieu: where is our specific info on the TPAC site?
15:21:49 <varn> Manu:  wednesday is plenary day.  plan to be there
15:22:06 <varn> Manu: VCWG meeting is Th-F all day.  be there
15:22:22 <varn> Manu:  Web Payments WG is M-Tu
15:22:39 <varn> Manu:  general advice plan to be there W-F
15:22:41 <manu> q-
15:22:47 <stonematt> q?
15:23:09 <manu> Topic: Data Model Spec - Milestone 1
15:23:14 <varn> Topic:  date model spec new milestone 1
15:23:30 <manu> q+ to provide some updates, hopefully for cwebber to fill in others.
15:23:35 <stonematt> Q?
15:23:37 <stonematt> q?
15:23:42 <stonematt> ack manu
15:23:42 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to provide some updates, hopefully for cwebber to fill in others.
15:23:45 <varn> Stone:  what do we need to keep in mind regarding priortizing tasks on that milestone
15:23:58 <manu> https://github.com/w3c/vc-test-suite/tree/gh-pages/tests-1.0
15:24:33 <stonematt> q?
15:24:36 <varn> Manu:  Chris weber can talk about a python implementation.  We are filling out test suite implementations starting with filling out test fields for minimum necessary parts of VC
15:25:08 <varn> Manu:  once chirs has implemention far enough along can point test suite at it and make progress.
15:25:49 <stonematt> q?
15:25:58 <varn> Manu:  digital bizarre will ad java script implementation.  will have two flavors running.  setting up infrastructure now and then will take off
15:26:07 <manu> s/bizarre/bazaar
15:26:10 <manu> s/bizarre/bazaar/
15:26:31 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
15:27:25 <stonematt> q?
15:27:26 <dlongley> q?
15:27:27 <MattLarson> MattLarson +
15:27:30 <varn> Chris Weber: last week got python implementation up and running on valid signatures and now working on other running against other implementations. needs more documentation but wants it work first and make user friendly second.  adding to libraries to make sure we hav enough to get going on test suits
15:27:33 <varn> suite
15:27:34 <manu> q+ MattLarson
15:27:45 <cwebber> q?
15:28:11 <varn> Stone:  good off line discussion on separation holder and subject--needs discussion?
15:28:12 <stonematt> q?
15:28:30 <manu> q+ to ask about implementation language...
15:28:36 <stonematt> ack MattLarson
15:28:59 <stonematt> ack manu
15:28:59 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about implementation language...
15:29:02 <varn> MattLarson:  acclaim produces a signed claim like the python implementation.  would like to test interoperability of their verification
15:29:09 <varn> manu:  what language is it in?
15:29:24 <varn> MattLarson:  acclaim is Ruby
15:30:03 <varn> mattLarson:  not sure what using to do RDS but probably______.
15:30:19 <varn> MattlarsonIt is proprietary not open
15:30:22 <dlongley> s/RDS/RDF/
15:30:41 <stonematt> s/MattlarsonIt/MattLarson It/
15:30:45 <dlongley> s/______/Gregg Kellogg's gem.
15:30:53 <dlongley> s/______/Gregg Kellogg's gem./
15:30:54 <stonematt> q?
15:30:55 <varn> manu: run your implementation against the test suite and give a report on results
15:31:10 <stonematt> q?
15:31:24 <dlongley> s/______/ Gregg Kellogg's gem/
15:31:29 <manu> Topic: Privacy and Security Section Review Report
15:31:47 <manu> David Chadwick's feedback: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2017Sep/0011.html
15:31:56 <dlehn> present+ David_Lehn
15:32:02 <varn> Stone:  we asked for a read of privacy and security section and diivy up the work on it
15:32:13 <nage> q+
15:32:19 <ChristopherA> Q+
15:32:23 <varn> Stone:  where are we on the privacy and security spec work?
15:32:23 <stonematt> ack nage
15:32:27 <DavidC> q+
15:32:29 <stonematt> q?
15:33:05 <varn> ChristopherA working on documentation and framework and will share at rebooting WOT
15:33:21 <stonematt> q?
15:34:13 <varn> ChristopherA: we have changed terminology that mixes whether a claim is atomistic or a collection and the atomistic way of describing does not fit with how they have written about claime
15:35:08 <stonematt> q?
15:35:50 <varn> ChristopherA:  we call a handshake about a claim offer, request, and the claim to manage disclosure and then ask for proof of holder and manage that and connect to the JASON LD format. Need to articulate how and what will satisfy what elements need to be proven and how
15:35:57 <stonematt> q?
15:36:21 <manu> q+ to respond to nage - much of that sounds like our requirements, so that's good, but we need details at this point... just noting alignment in requirements.
15:36:25 <stonematt> s/ChristopherA:/nage:/
15:36:38 <stonematt> ack ChristopherA
15:36:44 <varn> ChristopherA:  keep signature simple but able to address the needs.  need to figure how individual data elements get express in what soverign calls a composit proof
15:36:51 <dlongley> s/JASON/JSON/
15:37:46 <stonematt> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:37:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html stonematt
15:38:03 <nage> q+
15:38:42 <stonematt> q?
15:39:37 <varn> Composite claims and identity is one of the key issues.  there are three classes of solutions: minimization --what do you  not send in a case, two is cl sig and blinding, and three is problem where all is mixed and still need to prove the whole and need to discuss that in examples for entangled data objects that have a mix of proofs and data and see if meets the requirements and somewhat dependent on protocol which is outside our scope but affects data format. maybe
15:39:48 <stonematt> q?
15:39:51 <stonematt> ack DavidC
15:39:53 <varn> all should be separate to make it easier to implement
15:40:35 <varn> DavidC:  security and privacy issues--going on on git hub not on emails.  should it also or only be on email?
15:40:54 <manu> q+ to note how to engage via email/github.
15:41:16 <ChristopherA> I subscribe to the entire GitHub so I see all issues
15:41:18 <stonematt> q?
15:42:38 <varn> DavidC:  second he circulated some comments on the latest version.  can discuss off line.  Implementation--they have tested with hospital patients using a fido on a smart phone where service provider creates a policy allowing any combo of credentials and smart phone is a cred repository and app matche which meet the policy and which are missing
15:43:08 <varn> David C: need ontology like with top and nested levels like Health Card and what goes under that
15:43:46 <manu> q+ to note alignment in thinking w/ what DavidC is saying wrt. ontologies.
15:43:49 <stonematt> q?
15:44:15 <dlongley> while the ontology is external it would be good to start an issue on how to express it in the query format for the credential handler API: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/credential-handler-api/issues
15:44:41 <varn> DavidC:  eg any student from any university or is it a specific kind of university that is nested under ontological understaning of University.  Proofing--id is public key and in what is issued by all public credential and linked since key is same.  do not need to request how to do a proof because inherent in model
15:45:15 <manu> ack manu
15:45:15 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to respond to nage - much of that sounds like our requirements, so that's good, but we need details at this point... just noting alignment in requirements. and to
15:45:16 <varn> DavidC:  talked w3c and suggeste usin web auth...waiting on more funding to do that
15:45:17 <stonematt> ack manu
15:45:18 <Zakim> ... note how to engage via email/github. and to note alignment in thinking w/ what DavidC is saying wrt. ontologies.
15:46:04 <stonematt> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:46:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html stonematt
15:47:13 <liam> regrets+ Liam
15:48:03 <varn> manu:  response to nathan--raised a number of requirement sovereign has aligned with digital bizare and payments--the response mech is the same as has been out a few years--this is what i need and say not what doc like dL but need prove age that is on Drivers License.  how to respond to that request.  vc, v profile,v credential or whatever to send proof back.  expect differences if doing zkp type stuff.  will have a video demo in a few weeks.  overall aligned on req
15:48:50 <stonematt> q?
15:49:13 <varn> manu: want comments early on before vc spec too baked. documentation later.  even if half baked will still be useful and understood.  if something at RWOT is good enough we can use it.
15:51:10 <stonematt> q?
15:51:35 <varn> manu: re DavidC--git hub or email?  w3c increasing asking to avoid email. because hard to thread them and finalze them and note changes in spec based on discussion.  use spec text in discussion helps with ensuring IP buttoned, who made what contribution and when and imp for IPR reasons and if not big load on chairs and misses the IPR needs when published.  go to github the suscribe to repository to get email notices
15:52:37 <varn> manu:  david C hospital use case re fido and web auth--any req that spen does not support and can run your implementation through test suite and see if it helps your use case for Health care
15:52:45 <stonematt> q?
15:53:21 <varn> DavidC:  some of the work is older and proprietary but looks like spec covers it so far. ok for now.
15:53:31 <stonematt> ack nage
15:54:09 <DavidC> q+
15:54:21 <stonematt> q?
15:54:38 <JoeAndrieu> +1 for remapping/mapping to enable greater Holder control
15:55:24 <stonematt> q?
15:55:42 <manu> q+ to ask nage to just sketch out a protocol exchange in an issue... (I expect he's already moving along those lines)
15:55:44 <varn> nathan:  one concept raised in various forms--making the ontology from issuer into verifiers language that is unified and brittle for constructs not present in issuers claims so holder may need to reformulate.  verifier needs to say what they are willing to accept and how. issuer, holder, and verifier system need to b tied but not have the exact same hierarchical understanding for each to do their part and receive desired value
15:55:58 <stonematt> ack DavidC
15:56:11 <manu> q+ to respond to DavidC's ontology discussion - multiple ontologies - data model supports it (and prefers it)
15:57:34 <varn> DavidC:  re ontology--can be multiple sets of ontologies for each community like banking which would not interface much or at all with health except in minor ways like payment.  do not need global ontology but each app needs a mini ontology for that purpose and can use internal mapping to translate the common ontology in indivdual internal representations
15:57:57 <manu> ack manu
15:57:57 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask nage to just sketch out a protocol exchange in an issue... (I expect he's already moving along those lines) and to respond to DavidC's ontology discussion -
15:58:00 <Zakim> ... multiple ontologies - data model supports it (and prefers it)
15:58:00 <stonematt> ack manu
15:58:09 <ChristopherA> I have to bow out, heading to credentials call
15:59:27 <varn> Manu:  re ontology--agree we will have integrated vertical ontologies and spec covers that.  is there tension between nathan's not tightly coupled ontology and davidC's need for some commonalities on which you hang meaning and do extensions and internal transforms to use
16:00:15 <cwebber> s/digital bizare/digital bazaar/
16:00:32 <varn> manu:  suggest raise issue with simple example of the kind of ways that the ontology and need for flexibility is explicated and demonstrated to convey the issue
16:00:36 <stonematt> q?
16:00:42 <JoeAndrieu> q+
16:00:54 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
16:01:13 <varn> JoeAndrieu:  future agend item suggestion for update on use cases and please add to next week.
16:01:15 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
16:01:19 <manu> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/12-vcwg-minutes.html manu
16:01:31 <varn> Stone:  adjourned out of time--see you next weeek
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