IRC log of webtv on 2017-09-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

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14:03:35 [kaz]

Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2017Aug/0003.html

14:03:45 [kaz]

Meeting: Media&Entertainment IG

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present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Mark_Vickers, Bob_Lund, Chris_Needham, Chris_O'Breien, Colin_Meerveld, Francois_Daourst, Giri_Mandiam, Glenn_Goldstein, Hyojin_Song, Tatsuya_Igarashi, John_Luther, Kazuhiro_Hoya

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present+ Peter_Pogrzeba

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14:10:02 [kaz]

mv: welcome

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14:10:06 [kaz]

... showing the charter

14:10:16 [kaz]

... we hold monthly calls

14:10:22 [kaz]

... and possible some more TF calls

14:10:50 [kaz]

... basic idea is summary of various W3C groups

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... and invited guests

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... introducing the whole things

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... also deep dive as well

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... shows agenda:

14:11:17 [kaz]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2017Aug/0003.html

14:11:45 [kaz]

mv: quick introduction, TPAC agenda, summary of work

14:12:13 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/webtv-charter.html Media and Entertainment IG Charter

14:12:28 [kaz]

mv: 3 Charters and 2 W3C contacts

14:12:42 [kaz]

... Tatsuya Igarashi (Sony), Chris Needham (BBC), Mark Vickers (Comcast)

14:12:56 [kaz]

... started as one of the original Chairs in 2011

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... let me introduce the other co-Chairs

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... Chris and Igarashi

14:13:23 [kaz]

cn: r&d devision of BBC

14:13:40 [kaz]

... research and development related to web technology

14:13:55 [kaz]

... various people in the organization for different wg/activities

14:14:28 [kaz]

... standardization work and application development

14:14:38 [kaz]

... my focus is web technology and web standards

14:14:42 [kaz]

mv: tx

14:14:45 [kaz]

... Igarashi-san?

14:14:55 [kaz]

ti: work for Sony

14:15:04 [kaz]

... TV equipment

14:15:08 [kaz]

... also have services

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... OTT services

14:15:26 [kaz]

... Sony music, etc.

14:15:32 [kaz]

... main role is standardization

14:15:45 [kaz]

... also work on smart home

14:15:54 [kaz]

... IPTV and broadcast

14:16:03 [kaz]

... media and entertainment aspect within W3C

14:16:24 [kaz]

present+ Alex_Deacon

14:16:37 [kaz]

mv: the Chairs represent, US, UK and Asia

14:16:45 [kaz]

... media is regional

14:16:51 [kaz]

... and regional standards

14:17:01 [kaz]

... but becoming more and more global

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... so need for contact persons for regional industry

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... also would introduce team contacts

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14:17:59 [kaz]

... Kaz Ashimura

14:18:07 [kaz]

kaz: working on TV since 2011

14:18:10 [kaz]

... WoT as well

14:18:26 [kaz]

mv: also would introduce Francois Daourst

14:18:40 [kaz]

fd: M&E champion

14:18:53 [kaz]

... media-related groups

14:18:58 [kaz]

... including the M&E IG

14:19:09 [kaz]

... extract priorities from W3C Membership

14:19:25 [kaz]

... not really the Staff Contact but will be around and contribute to the discussion

14:19:34 [kaz]

mv: one of the issue is

14:19:48 [kaz]

... formerly we were "Web&TV IG"

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... now we're "Media&Entertainment IG"

14:20:04 [kaz]

https://www.w3.org/2017/03/webtv-charter.html Charter

14:20:16 [kaz]

mv: the focus is media on the Web

14:20:22 [kaz]

... not necessarily TV

14:20:27 [kaz]

... so broaden the scope

14:20:35 [kaz]

... as you see here in the Charter

14:20:56 [kaz]

... (shows the section "1. Scope")

14:21:07 [kaz]

... video, audio, radio, streaming media

14:21:15 [kaz]

... any questions about the new name/charter?

14:21:26 [kaz]

... still same mission and somewhat broaden

14:21:40 [kaz]

cn: regarding the scope

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... the scope includes entire production chain

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... not just distribution, etc.

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... there is a need we should discuss the entire production system

14:22:26 [kaz]

... we used to have the GGIE TF

14:22:36 [kaz]

... bringing use cases slightly broader

14:22:44 [kaz]

... would reflect that as well

14:22:54 [kaz]

mv: that's good/key point of the name change

14:23:17 [kaz]

... capture with camera, distribution and consumption on screen

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... that's also key part of the new name

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... any otherb

14:23:52 [kaz]

s/otherb/other business to be added to the agenda?/

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(none)

14:24:10 [kaz]

topic: TPAC agenda

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mv: anybody can attend

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https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/ TPAC page

14:24:39 [kaz]

mv: if you've not got registered...

14:24:54 [kaz]

... it's Burlingame closed to San Fransisco

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... 6-10 Nov.

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... we'll meet on Monday

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... TPAC goes through Mon to Fri

14:25:36 [kaz]

https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/schedule.html TPAC schedule

14:25:54 [kaz]

mv: last year, what we had was...

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... (shows the agenda for the TPAC in Lisbon)

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... HTML Media Extensions WG - EME/MSE

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present+ Tatsuya.Igarashi

14:26:40 [kaz]

... joint meetings with Timed Text WG, TV Control WG

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... and Cloud Browser TF meeting

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... so

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... joint meetings with certain groups

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... TF report

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... Cloud Browser TF

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present+ Guen-Hyung_Kim

14:27:54 [kaz]

mv: anybody from the TF?

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cm: I'm here

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present+ Kasar_Masood

14:29:24 [kaz]

mv: joint meetings with Timed Text and Second Screen

14:29:35 [kaz]

... and work around the world

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... HbbTV from Europe, ATSC from US, Next@@@ from Korea and Hybridcast from Japan

14:30:20 [kaz]

... also Web Media API CG

14:30:54 [kaz]

... coordinating technical standardization groups

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s/technical/with technical/

14:31:11 [kaz]

... other WGs/CGs should be included

14:31:23 [kaz]

gg: HTML streaming group?

14:31:38 [kaz]

... streaming graphics much like Timed Text

14:31:45 [kaz]

... potential for the future TV

14:31:48 [kaz]

mv: interesting

14:32:02 [kaz]

... we may pick up that kind of related work

14:32:13 [kaz]

... recent report?

14:32:22 [kaz]

gg: SVG group is kind dormant

14:32:39 [tidoust]

[I'm not aware of on-going work on streaming graphics right now. The SVG streaming CG is indeed dormant, as far as I know]

14:32:43 [kaz]

mv: strong relationship with CGs/BGs

14:33:10 [kaz]

... any possible joint meetings?

14:33:19 [kaz]

cn: TV Control discussion hosted by IG?

14:33:31 [kaz]

mv: ok

14:33:51 [kaz]

... Web Media API CG is another possibility

14:34:02 [kaz]

... joint meeting with the IG or sometime different

14:34:22 [kaz]

... any feedback from working group, etc?

14:34:23 [kaz]

q+

14:35:25 [kaz]

ack k

14:35:35 [kaz]

kaz: joint meeting with WoT would make sense @@@

14:35:52 [kaz]

mv: smart device in home, TV, STB, etc.

14:36:09 [kaz]

... many of them have streaming media, video/audio, capability

14:36:16 [kaz]

... Amazon Alexa, etc.

14:36:22 [kaz]

... 2-way audio streaming media

14:36:28 [kaz]

... smart device as the huv

14:36:31 [kaz]

s/huv/hub/

14:36:38 [kaz]

... so huge overwrap

14:36:43 [kaz]

... let's have a joint meeting

14:37:03 [kaz]

km: talked about participating W3C groups

14:37:11 [kaz]

... liaison from W3C?

14:37:27 [kaz]

... advertising standards

14:37:32 [kaz]

mv: a lot of work we done

14:37:43 [kaz]

... EME/MSE work started withing the Web&TV IG

14:37:55 [kaz]

... not sure any work on advertisement

14:38:05 [kaz]

fd: IAB is a W3C Member

14:38:23 [kaz]

... active on tracking protection

14:38:35 [kaz]

km: there is IAB Lab as well

14:38:43 [kaz]

fd: nothing official or concrete so far

14:38:53 [kaz]

... IG input is more than welcome

14:39:11 [kaz]

... not sure if we can set up a meeting with them at TPAC

14:39:21 [kaz]

mv: let's talk about this offline

14:39:36 [kaz]

... should we go through the related groups?

14:39:42 [kaz]

... summary of current work

14:39:46 [kaz]

... or TV Control?

14:40:00 [kaz]

cn: you can see the list in the agenda

14:40:07 [kaz]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2017Aug/0003.html

14:40:18 [kaz]

cn: this call as getting update

14:40:48 [kaz]

... if you look at the Web Incubator CG

14:40:54 [kaz]

... there are a number of specs

14:41:10 [kaz]

... would talk about the TV Control topic today

14:41:19 [kaz]

... we can revisit other groups for the next call

14:41:35 [kaz]

mv: good idea

14:41:58 [kaz]

... will you share your screen on webex?

14:42:02 [cpn]

https://www.w3.org/2016/03/tvcontrol.html

14:42:03 [kaz]

cn: will put resources here on IRC

14:42:20 [kaz]

mv: can open the links via IRC

14:42:37 [kaz]

cn: TV Control WG charter

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... need for APIs

14:42:53 [kaz]

... gaps are identified

14:43:18 [kaz]

... to handle video/audio stream

14:43:28 [kaz]

... originally the CG had discussion

14:43:41 [kaz]

... Mozilla's work became the basis

14:44:14 [kaz]

... in 2016, started work for standards

14:44:23 [kaz]

... (shows the scope)

14:44:33 [kaz]

https://www.w3.org/2016/03/tvcontrol.html#scope

14:44:49 [kaz]

cn: conditional access as well

14:45:03 [kaz]

... broad enough to cover various environment

14:45:34 [kaz]

... closer integration of broadcasting and HTML5 environment

14:45:44 [kaz]

... how we could provide audio/video stream

14:45:53 [kaz]

... in the browser in order to display the media

14:46:01 [kaz]

... and select different channels

14:46:16 [kaz]

... resource constraint

14:46:23 [kaz]

... limited number of pipelines

14:46:32 [kaz]

... how can we allow applications to present media

14:47:05 [kaz]

... and allow some element to allow automatic decoding on devices with limited capability

14:47:35 [kaz]

... initial conversation about possible integration in ATSC 3

14:48:57 [kaz]

... the feedback we gate later is the APIs require extra efforts

14:49:24 [kaz]

... at the end of the h

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s/the h/the charter period/

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... the conclusion was not continuing the work in the WG

14:49:56 [kaz]

... but having some more discussion in this IG

14:50:27 [kaz]

... there are number of APIs that exist for the purposes

14:50:44 [kaz]

... do we still want W3C to standardize the API?

14:51:20 [kaz]

... TAG's suggested approach more TV as a device controlled on network

14:51:30 [kaz]

... applications on TVs

14:51:57 [kaz]

... selecting content vs streams bound to broadcast

14:52:40 [kaz]

... should those applications be allowed?

14:52:57 [kaz]

... is this something we still feel useful to do at W3C?

14:53:17 [kaz]

... different APIs for different devices by different vendors?

14:53:25 [kaz]

s/different APIs/OK with different APIs/

14:54:09 [kaz]

... should be tightly coupled with use cases?

14:54:33 [kaz]

... would like to hear your views/questions

14:54:43 [kaz]

mv: a couple of comments

14:55:00 [kaz]

... 1. TAG talking about device for home network?

14:55:17 [kaz]

... involved in discussion at ATSC

14:55:21 [kaz]

... tuners on network

14:55:33 [kaz]

... they would use web-based device

14:55:46 [kaz]

gm: that's correct

14:56:07 [kaz]

mv: we could have discussion during TPAC

14:56:31 [kaz]

... on the other hand, their is a naming problem

14:56:57 [kaz]

... how broadcast channels/TV channels would fit with the Web media

14:58:04 [kaz]

... different channel systems depending on regions

14:58:34 [kaz]

... maybe URL, etc., as universal resource

14:58:39 [kaz]

q?

14:59:06 [kaz]

gm: ATSC's response on TV Control API

14:59:17 [kaz]

... some attempt for TV-triggered application

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... API work may be rigid

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... consistency with the existing DRM systems

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ti: had been working on the TV Control WG

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... one of the challenges was timeline

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... misalignment between the broadcasters' expectation and the WG process

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... so failed

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... dedicated TV, radio, car audio, etc.

15:02:45 [kaz]

... those kind of devices that have embedded tuner capability

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... should generate W3C standard to be used by broadcasters

15:03:59 [kaz]

kaz: do you mean we need to involve more stakeholders from those industries?

15:04:02 [kaz]

ti: yes

15:04:38 [kaz]

gm: agree regarding car environment

15:05:10 [kaz]

ti: the main purpose of the TV Control API is handling embedded tuners

15:06:05 [kaz]

cn: we have interest in multicast delivery, etc., as well

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... live media streaming

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... for the possible future direction

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... TV Control API provides high-level abstraction

15:07:02 [kaz]

ti: ok

15:07:47 [kaz]

... "tuner" here could be any kind of "device with tuning capability"

15:08:24 [kaz]

cn: btw, alignment of timeline is an interesting point

15:08:46 [kaz]

... how early should we attempt to bring the discussion to W3C?

15:09:20 [kaz]

... work within ATSC and HbbTV, for example

15:09:30 [kaz]

mv: we have 2 missions

15:09:36 [kaz]

... within this IG

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... facing out and facing in

15:10:00 [kaz]

... active liaison with related groups which increase the activity

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... understand their standards are and communicate with them

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... and looking-in is looking at related W3C standards

15:11:54 [kaz]

... have been working with ATSC, etc.

15:12:37 [kaz]

gm: TV Control API was targeted to wrong direction from the market's requirements

15:13:24 [kaz]

... more or less solved by the market place

15:14:04 [kaz]

mv: would have ATSC more inline with the HTML5 standard

15:14:21 [kaz]

ti: ok to continue the discussion on TV Control API in this IG

15:14:30 [kaz]

... we need to narrow down the scope

15:14:35 [kaz]

... what the target area is

15:14:57 [kaz]

... remember there was discussion on TV Control API during TPAC 2016

15:15:56 [kaz]

... by whome applications are provided?

15:16:11 [kaz]

... we should think about those provided by Web developers

15:16:46 [kaz]

... btw, what kind of use cases we have discussed, e.g., during TPAC 2016?

15:16:55 [kaz]

... categorization of the use cases

15:18:19 [kaz]

ti: the APIs should be used by Web applications

15:18:38 [kaz]

cn: which Web apps are allowed to contact the device?

15:18:59 [kaz]

... relationship between the Web domain and the broadcast signal

15:20:01 [kaz]

s/signal/channels/

15:20:05 [kaz]

... possible next step

15:20:16 [kaz]

... current state of TV industry standards

15:21:45 [kaz]

... any more points for today?

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(none)

15:21:58 [kaz]

topic: EME vote

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mv: vote available until next week (Sep. 14)

15:22:42 [kaz]

... we'll meet in month for the next call?

15:22:55 [kaz]

cn: got comments from some of the Timed Text WG participants

15:23:03 [kaz]

... overlap with their call

15:23:37 [kaz]

kaz: should we try another doodle?

15:24:03 [kaz]

mv: maybe two (or small number of) choices, this slot vs Monday

15:24:22 [kaz]

[ adjourned ]

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rrsagent, make log public

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rrsagent, draft minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/07-webtv-minutes.html kaz

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Chair: Mark, Chris, Igarashi

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rrsagent, draft minutes

15:27:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/07-webtv-minutes.html kaz

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