IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2017-08-31

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/31-mobile-a11y-irc
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Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:01:30 [trackbot]
Date: 31 August 2017
15:01:39 [Kim]
chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin
15:03:04 [Kim]
Agenda+ Understanding Documentation and Techniques resources and schedule
15:03:06 [Kim]
Agenda+ Understanding Documentation and Techniques
15:03:07 [Kim]
15:03:09 [Kim]
Agenda+ Next steps – next meeting September 7
15:03:44 [shadi]
present+
15:06:30 [marcjohlic]
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15:07:58 [Kathy]
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15:08:02 [David_]
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15:08:05 [Kathy]
present+
15:09:03 [Kathy]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC
15:09:09 [David_]
Present+ David-MacDonald
15:09:47 [marcjohlic]
present+ marcjohlic
15:11:40 [Kim]
Kathy: we have nine success criteria. URL has list of everybody's success criteria that got into 2.1. Because these are in 2.1 right now does not mean they will stay there. There's going to be further discussion 2.1, what we do with the exception there, device sensors, some of the other ones were we had things come up. the working group and chairs agreed that we weren't going to be concentrating o
15:11:42 [Kim]
n that while we were approving these. That will be reviewed and looked at after the fact. Those discussions will be happening pretty soon on the working group calls
15:12:37 [Kim]
Kathy: in the meantime the task forces are going to take each of their SC's and write the understanding. We have understanding for ours but things have changed. There are long threads and Github, exceptions, notes from the meetings that need to get incorporated.
15:13:25 [Kim]
Kathy: the taskforces will take the lead in doing theirs. Each of the taskforces will be reviewing the others. opportunity to add mobile specific to SCs from other taskforces – every task force will do that
15:13:37 [Kim]
Kathy: so will be taking the first pass at modifying, also techniques
15:14:09 [Kim]
Kathy: explaining URL – you can modify in github. There is a view link
15:15:07 [Kim]
Kathy: overall it would be easy to edit these in github. If someone is not comfortable in github, we can make changes for everyone. Out of this list we have 11 different things, one that's not on the list right now which is device sensors.
15:15:39 [Kim]
Kathy: device sensors most likely will get in but that's not confirmed.
15:16:34 [Kim]
Kathy: right now we have 10, maybe 11 that we need to work on. One of those is the conformance – is there something else we need to do that – is there an understanding for that
15:16:56 [Kim]
David: there's an understanding conformance section and that's where that edit would go in – this is good because it means we''re not changing, just clarifying
15:17:30 [Kim]
Kathy: in looking at the different success criteria, David I've seen you done a lot on change of content
15:17:50 [Kim]
David: I've done changes in most of those I was the manager for. I can do change of content
15:18:08 [Kim]
Kathy: Andrew was the manager for target size – I can do that one
15:18:36 [Kim]
Mark: I'll get the understanding updated for orientation
15:18:51 [David_]
http://tinyurl.com/jmo9st4 . has the SC managers and all the links also...
15:19:00 [Kim]
Kim will do character key shortcuts
15:19:30 [Kim]
and accessible name
15:20:11 [Kim]
David: doing conformance
15:20:37 [Kim]
Kathy: 4 that aren't covered, Detlev, Patrick will be here
15:21:30 [Kim]
Kathy: for the template for all of these, the templates are pretty much set.
15:22:28 [Kim]
TOPIC: Situation definition
15:23:09 [Kim]
David: examples
15:23:14 [David_]
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/media-equiv-av-only-alt.html
15:23:43 [Kim]
David: it's for when the techniques only apply to certain aspects of a success criteria
15:24:23 [Kim]
David: you might have a technique that only meets part of the success criteria, not all of them. So gives us a little more flexibility in terms of mapping techniques. This is a sufficient technique for the success criteria but the context might change. You have situation A, B, C to limit that
15:24:59 [Kim]
David: it's once we start getting into the granularity of a technique. Say it's a specific type of shopping cart or something that would apply to it, but it wouldn't apply if you were in a different technology of course
15:25:30 [Kim]
David: it just gives us a little more flexibility for when we are mapping techniques. It's just when it doesn't cover the entire success criteria – a way to limit it to a situation
15:27:16 [Kim]
TOPIC: Github editing
15:27:36 [Kim]
David: there sometimes a lag between the views
15:28:07 [Kim]
Kathy: is there anything we shouldn't do in terms of just copying. For example target size at AA versus target size no exception at AAA – the benefit is going to be the same – just copy it over
15:28:34 [Kim]
David: yes. Just copy the same stuff over and just amend a little
15:30:07 [Kim]
Kathy: techniques under AA and AAA, some sufficient techniques are repeated
15:30:18 [Kim]
David: that's fine – there will be a lot of overlap
15:31:58 [Kim]
David: the big thing is to get grammar and punctuation right the first time around. It's a total pain to go through and proofread the understanding. My instinct is to dump things in and worry about other things later, but if you're not going to come back soon later it's better to reread and get the grammar right
15:32:13 [Kim]
TOPIC: moving forward
15:32:43 [Kim]
Kathy: I'd like to see if we can get most of these in draft format over the next few weeks. Once you get it done let Kim and I know for the next meeting – will keep going forward on those
15:32:49 [Kim]
David: techniques as well?
15:33:16 [Kim]
Kathy: we should put the techniques that we know in the techniques area. There were others that came up in discussion. We are not writing the techniques at this point, but put the titles in
15:33:44 [Kim]
David: if work has been done already on existing techniques put in – we can apply work we've already done
15:34:01 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60
15:34:17 [Kim]
Kathy: target size example – we have links to techniques we've already created
15:34:50 [Kim]
Kathy: everything that we had to find I was pretty careful in making sure to transfer them over. it should be pretty close
15:35:05 [Kim]
Marc: how far are we going with techniques
15:35:36 [Kim]
Kathy: I was just going to copy what we had – start listing in techniques and failure, but not worry about writing them now. Focuses on understanding language. I was just going to put the headlines like we have now right there
15:36:24 [Kim]
Kathy: we may have other things that come up for things we may want to adjust after we see COGA and low vision go through this and feedback from the working group
15:36:45 [Kathy]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_status#Issue_60_-_Target_Size
15:37:18 [Kim]
Kathy: also note that all of these have links to the issues of things that we went through – for example for touch target we have the issues that were listed. This is good to go back and look at some of those things.
15:37:31 [Kim]
David: do we have a list of all of the – a table?
15:38:20 [Kim]
2.4.11 Character Key Shortcuts
15:38:21 [Kim]
2.5.1 Target Size AA
15:38:23 [Kim]
2.5.2 Target Size (no exception) AAA
15:38:24 [Kim]
2.5.3 Pointer Gestures A
15:38:26 [Kim]
2.5.4 Concurrent Input Mechanisms AA
15:38:27 [Kim]
2.6.1 Orientation AA
15:38:29 [Kim]
2.7.1 Accessible Name A
15:38:31 [Kim]
3.2.6 Accidental Activation A
15:38:32 [Kim]
3.2.7 Change of Content AA
15:38:35 [marcjohlic]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
15:40:16 [Kathy]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
15:40:26 [Kim]
Kathy: we can link back to this list
15:41:21 [Kim]
Kathy: numbering – 2.5.4 was target size, now it's concurrent input mechanism. Don't get confused over old numbering versus you numbering, but you can go back in assignments archive and look at the different things we were working on
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15:41:34 [Kim]
David: looks like it's going to be easier just to go through the list of what we've listed so far.
15:41:47 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60
15:41:52 [Kim]
Kathy: I've already listed them under each of the github issues
15:42:16 [Kim]
Kathy: I uploaded the original issue for each of them. I listed all the proposed techniques that we had come up for that under the technique headings
15:42:26 [Kim]
David: on the main issue, the first entry
15:43:58 [Kim]
Kathy: next week we should have some that we will review on this call. As soon as they get published to the github repository they will go out with Michael's drafts. So if we get some of these into the understanding it will be published with 2.1 when it goes out
15:44:34 [Kim]
Kathy: next week I should have more information about when the other success criteria drafts will be ready. Will be reviewing each of those – low vision and COGA
15:45:06 [Kim]
Marc: editing rights?
15:45:18 [Kim]
Kathy: I can edit it
15:45:40 [Kim]
Marc: I do have a pencil here – I can edit
15:46:10 [Kim]
Marc: based on this table – is this finalized
15:46:35 [Kim]
Kathy: there are three outstanding, but those will be decided really soon. This will be the latest and greatest all the time
15:49:05 [Kim]
Shadi: the reason the chairs are revisiting the CFC on device sensors is because the initial objection specifically was not about the SC as such it was about the scoping and so this makes a difference. The chairs are putting a lot of emphasis on trying to treat all the success criteria and input equally on equal basis using justified criteria for every position. and Steven has been participating i
15:49:06 [Kim]
n trying to find a result so the approach is not to completely remove it, but continue working on it after publication so it's likely that an editor's note will be added saying there is an issue but we are going to continue working on it rather than removing it
15:50:06 [Kim]
Kathy: the objection was around scope and was also muddied because people were commenting about incorporation into 2.1.1 which was off the table in terms of accepting it into 2.1. So the scope was in question not the acceptance of the actual SC. And there was support for SC from those who objected, but the objection was on scope not general principle.
15:50:41 [Kim]
Kathy: right now the scope has narrowed and I think it's fine to narrow the scope. We haven't had any real objections on the proposed language and it's really not that different from what we had, just narrowing the scope to motion-based sensors rather than any device sensor
15:51:16 [Kim]
Kathy: that's where were at, so we won't put Device Sensors in until we have a decision from the chairs. The other ones we will work on. Will also have an update from the other taskforces next week as well
15:51:59 [Kim]
Kathy: we will be meeting regularly now until we get this done and then will do techniques as well
15:52:43 [Kim]
Kathy: a lot of different groups are going to be coming and helping out with this. I think it's important that the amount of work in the amount of time and the discussions that we all had in the task force – that that doesn't get lost in that we make sure that stuff gets in and we continue the conversation on mobile – thanks for driving it forward
15:53:05 [Kim]
Kathy: any questions just let me know I can always edit for you
15:54:27 [Kim]
zakim, list participants
15:54:27 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been shadi, Kathy, chriscm, Marc, David-MacDonald, marcjohlic
15:54:52 [Kim]
Present+
15:55:02 [Kim]
zakim, list participants
15:55:02 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been shadi, Kathy, chriscm, Marc, David-MacDonald, marcjohlic, Kim
15:55:28 [Kim]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:55:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim
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16:47:15 [Kim]
rrsagent, bye
16:47:15 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items