15:01:25 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 15:01:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/31-mobile-a11y-irc 15:01:27 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:01:30 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:01:30 Date: 31 August 2017 15:01:39 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 15:03:04 Agenda+ Understanding Documentation and Techniques resources and schedule 15:03:06 Agenda+ Understanding Documentation and Techniques 15:03:07 15:03:09 Agenda+ Next steps – next meeting September 7 15:03:44 present+ 15:06:30 marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y 15:07:58 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 15:08:02 David_ has joined #mobile-a11y 15:08:05 present+ 15:09:03 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC 15:09:09 Present+ David-MacDonald 15:09:47 present+ marcjohlic 15:11:40 Kathy: we have nine success criteria. URL has list of everybody's success criteria that got into 2.1. Because these are in 2.1 right now does not mean they will stay there. There's going to be further discussion 2.1, what we do with the exception there, device sensors, some of the other ones were we had things come up. the working group and chairs agreed that we weren't going to be concentrating o 15:11:42 n that while we were approving these. That will be reviewed and looked at after the fact. Those discussions will be happening pretty soon on the working group calls 15:12:37 Kathy: in the meantime the task forces are going to take each of their SC's and write the understanding. We have understanding for ours but things have changed. There are long threads and Github, exceptions, notes from the meetings that need to get incorporated. 15:13:25 Kathy: the taskforces will take the lead in doing theirs. Each of the taskforces will be reviewing the others. opportunity to add mobile specific to SCs from other taskforces – every task force will do that 15:13:37 Kathy: so will be taking the first pass at modifying, also techniques 15:14:09 Kathy: explaining URL – you can modify in github. There is a view link 15:15:07 Kathy: overall it would be easy to edit these in github. If someone is not comfortable in github, we can make changes for everyone. Out of this list we have 11 different things, one that's not on the list right now which is device sensors. 15:15:39 Kathy: device sensors most likely will get in but that's not confirmed. 15:16:34 Kathy: right now we have 10, maybe 11 that we need to work on. One of those is the conformance – is there something else we need to do that – is there an understanding for that 15:16:56 David: there's an understanding conformance section and that's where that edit would go in – this is good because it means we''re not changing, just clarifying 15:17:30 Kathy: in looking at the different success criteria, David I've seen you done a lot on change of content 15:17:50 David: I've done changes in most of those I was the manager for. I can do change of content 15:18:08 Kathy: Andrew was the manager for target size – I can do that one 15:18:36 Mark: I'll get the understanding updated for orientation 15:18:51 http://tinyurl.com/jmo9st4 . has the SC managers and all the links also... 15:19:00 Kim will do character key shortcuts 15:19:30 and accessible name 15:20:11 David: doing conformance 15:20:37 Kathy: 4 that aren't covered, Detlev, Patrick will be here 15:21:30 Kathy: for the template for all of these, the templates are pretty much set. 15:22:28 TOPIC: Situation definition 15:23:09 David: examples 15:23:14 https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/media-equiv-av-only-alt.html 15:23:43 David: it's for when the techniques only apply to certain aspects of a success criteria 15:24:23 David: you might have a technique that only meets part of the success criteria, not all of them. So gives us a little more flexibility in terms of mapping techniques. This is a sufficient technique for the success criteria but the context might change. You have situation A, B, C to limit that 15:24:59 David: it's once we start getting into the granularity of a technique. Say it's a specific type of shopping cart or something that would apply to it, but it wouldn't apply if you were in a different technology of course 15:25:30 David: it just gives us a little more flexibility for when we are mapping techniques. It's just when it doesn't cover the entire success criteria – a way to limit it to a situation 15:27:16 TOPIC: Github editing 15:27:36 David: there sometimes a lag between the views 15:28:07 Kathy: is there anything we shouldn't do in terms of just copying. For example target size at AA versus target size no exception at AAA – the benefit is going to be the same – just copy it over 15:28:34 David: yes. Just copy the same stuff over and just amend a little 15:30:07 Kathy: techniques under AA and AAA, some sufficient techniques are repeated 15:30:18 David: that's fine – there will be a lot of overlap 15:31:58 David: the big thing is to get grammar and punctuation right the first time around. It's a total pain to go through and proofread the understanding. My instinct is to dump things in and worry about other things later, but if you're not going to come back soon later it's better to reread and get the grammar right 15:32:13 TOPIC: moving forward 15:32:43 Kathy: I'd like to see if we can get most of these in draft format over the next few weeks. Once you get it done let Kim and I know for the next meeting – will keep going forward on those 15:32:49 David: techniques as well? 15:33:16 Kathy: we should put the techniques that we know in the techniques area. There were others that came up in discussion. We are not writing the techniques at this point, but put the titles in 15:33:44 David: if work has been done already on existing techniques put in – we can apply work we've already done 15:34:01 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60 15:34:17 Kathy: target size example – we have links to techniques we've already created 15:34:50 Kathy: everything that we had to find I was pretty careful in making sure to transfer them over. it should be pretty close 15:35:05 Marc: how far are we going with techniques 15:35:36 Kathy: I was just going to copy what we had – start listing in techniques and failure, but not worry about writing them now. Focuses on understanding language. I was just going to put the headlines like we have now right there 15:36:24 Kathy: we may have other things that come up for things we may want to adjust after we see COGA and low vision go through this and feedback from the working group 15:36:45 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_status#Issue_60_-_Target_Size 15:37:18 Kathy: also note that all of these have links to the issues of things that we went through – for example for touch target we have the issues that were listed. This is good to go back and look at some of those things. 15:37:31 David: do we have a list of all of the – a table? 15:38:20 2.4.11 Character Key Shortcuts 15:38:21 2.5.1 Target Size AA 15:38:23 2.5.2 Target Size (no exception) AAA 15:38:24 2.5.3 Pointer Gestures A 15:38:26 2.5.4 Concurrent Input Mechanisms AA 15:38:27 2.6.1 Orientation AA 15:38:29 2.7.1 Accessible Name A 15:38:31 3.2.6 Accidental Activation A 15:38:32 3.2.7 Change of Content AA 15:38:35 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 15:40:16 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page 15:40:26 Kathy: we can link back to this list 15:41:21 Kathy: numbering – 2.5.4 was target size, now it's concurrent input mechanism. Don't get confused over old numbering versus you numbering, but you can go back in assignments archive and look at the different things we were working on 15:41:29 laura has left #mobile-a11y 15:41:34 David: looks like it's going to be easier just to go through the list of what we've listed so far. 15:41:47 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/60 15:41:52 Kathy: I've already listed them under each of the github issues 15:42:16 Kathy: I uploaded the original issue for each of them. I listed all the proposed techniques that we had come up for that under the technique headings 15:42:26 David: on the main issue, the first entry 15:43:58 Kathy: next week we should have some that we will review on this call. As soon as they get published to the github repository they will go out with Michael's drafts. So if we get some of these into the understanding it will be published with 2.1 when it goes out 15:44:34 Kathy: next week I should have more information about when the other success criteria drafts will be ready. Will be reviewing each of those – low vision and COGA 15:45:06 Marc: editing rights? 15:45:18 Kathy: I can edit it 15:45:40 Marc: I do have a pencil here – I can edit 15:46:10 Marc: based on this table – is this finalized 15:46:35 Kathy: there are three outstanding, but those will be decided really soon. This will be the latest and greatest all the time 15:49:05 Shadi: the reason the chairs are revisiting the CFC on device sensors is because the initial objection specifically was not about the SC as such it was about the scoping and so this makes a difference. The chairs are putting a lot of emphasis on trying to treat all the success criteria and input equally on equal basis using justified criteria for every position. and Steven has been participating i 15:49:06 n trying to find a result so the approach is not to completely remove it, but continue working on it after publication so it's likely that an editor's note will be added saying there is an issue but we are going to continue working on it rather than removing it 15:50:06 Kathy: the objection was around scope and was also muddied because people were commenting about incorporation into 2.1.1 which was off the table in terms of accepting it into 2.1. So the scope was in question not the acceptance of the actual SC. And there was support for SC from those who objected, but the objection was on scope not general principle. 15:50:41 Kathy: right now the scope has narrowed and I think it's fine to narrow the scope. We haven't had any real objections on the proposed language and it's really not that different from what we had, just narrowing the scope to motion-based sensors rather than any device sensor 15:51:16 Kathy: that's where were at, so we won't put Device Sensors in until we have a decision from the chairs. The other ones we will work on. Will also have an update from the other taskforces next week as well 15:51:59 Kathy: we will be meeting regularly now until we get this done and then will do techniques as well 15:52:43 Kathy: a lot of different groups are going to be coming and helping out with this. I think it's important that the amount of work in the amount of time and the discussions that we all had in the task force – that that doesn't get lost in that we make sure that stuff gets in and we continue the conversation on mobile – thanks for driving it forward 15:53:05 Kathy: any questions just let me know I can always edit for you 15:54:27 zakim, list participants 15:54:27 As of this point the attendees have been shadi, Kathy, chriscm, Marc, David-MacDonald, marcjohlic 15:54:52 Present+ 15:55:02 zakim, list participants 15:55:02 As of this point the attendees have been shadi, Kathy, chriscm, Marc, David-MacDonald, marcjohlic, Kim 15:55:28 rrsagent, make minutes 15:55:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 16:16:20 laura has joined #mobile-a11y 16:47:15 rrsagent, bye 16:47:15 I see no action items