13:51:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
13:51:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/28-wcag-act-irc
13:51:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:51:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag-act
13:51:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:51:53 <trackbot> Date: 28 August 2017
13:52:14 <Wilco> agenda?
13:52:16 <Wilco> agenda+ Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format
13:52:24 <Wilco> agenda+ Test driving ACT Rules format
13:52:31 <Wilco> agenda+ Reword test cases to test execution steps   https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/103
13:52:37 <Wilco> agenda+ Should we add a section on user input/interactive steps to the rules format?   https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/104
13:52:43 <Wilco> agenda+ Input types are much too specific and lead to confusion   https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/109
14:01:00 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #wcag-act
14:04:19 <CPandhi> CPandhi has joined #wcag-act
14:04:43 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #wcag-act
14:05:17 <agarrison> I'll join in a minute - trying to get the telecon numbers.
14:06:13 <Wilco> present+
14:06:21 <CPandhi> present +
14:06:23 <shadi> present+
14:06:29 <CPandhi> present+
14:06:42 <Manoj> Manoj has joined #wcag-act
14:07:03 <Wilco> agenda?
14:07:09 <Wilco> zakim, take up item 1
14:07:09 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format" taken up [from Wilco]
14:10:15 <Wilco> scribe: Monoj
14:10:46 <Wilco> Wilco: The next draft is on the survey of AGWG, it will be discussed tomorrow on their call
14:10:55 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wcag-act
14:11:32 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
14:12:19 <agarrison> Zakim take up next
14:12:29 <agarrison> Zakim, take up next
14:12:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Test driving ACT Rules format" taken up [from Wilco]
14:13:02 <agarrison> Wilco: We need to work with ACT rules formats in our organisations.
14:13:24 <agarrison> Wilco: What would it take to test drive the rules - in the ACT rules formats.
14:13:42 <agarrison> Wilco: Talked internally about using the format for new rules.
14:14:09 <agarrison> Wilco: Open question - what do you think needs to happen to start using the rules format.
14:14:21 <agarrison> Wilco: As a start to see how it might work.
14:14:29 <agarrison> Wilco: Charu?
14:15:05 <agarrison> Charu: First would be to socialise with the dev team - show them the new format.  Check if it makes sense.
14:15:16 <agarrison> Wilco: Could you talk with them this week.
14:15:28 <agarrison> Wilco: Want to try it for one or two rules.
14:16:23 <agarrison> Charu: We just finished something.  So people are out of a cycle.  We could see if we could get something in the next cycle.  I'll report back next week.
14:16:29 <agarrison> Wilco: Kathy?
14:16:47 <agarrison> Kathy: We can try out some of the rules.  We'll get back about scheduling.
14:17:21 <agarrison> Wilco: Fairly long thing - expect 2 months to really hear about process.
14:18:16 <agarrison> Alistair: Need to review.
14:18:54 <agarrison> Wilco: I looked internally - with open source contributors its good to be able to give them something to work against.
14:19:11 <agarrison> Wilco: Useful for documenting things upfront.
14:20:25 <agarrison> Wilco: Trying to test drive the rules format.
14:21:05 <agarrison> Alistair: We could transcode tests into this format for sharing.
14:21:21 <agarrison> Kathy: I agree.  There has to be that flexibility.
14:21:51 <agarrison> Shadi: Could you in the coming weeks could you start to export rules to this ACT format.
14:23:40 <agarrison> Wilco: The question should have been what does it take to re-format your tests into the ACT format.  Initial step would be a transcode.
14:24:04 <agarrison> Wilco: ACT format could then be a sharing format.
14:24:39 <agarrison> Wilco: We start to convert some rules into the new format - what is missing, what is not transferring well, etc.
14:25:33 <agarrison> Wilco: We need to work out the effort involved in transferring into this ACT format.  If we could think of a plan in the next.
14:25:41 <agarrison> Zakim, take up next.
14:25:41 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Reword test cases to test execution steps   https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/103" taken up [from Wilco]
14:26:37 <Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/107/files?diff=split
14:26:41 <agarrison> Wilco: Mo created a proposal to reword test case to test execution steps.
14:27:42 <agarrison> Wilco: I think test execution steps is better than test cases.
14:30:15 <agarrison> Alistair: Test case is usually made up a bunch of test execution steps.
14:32:35 <agarrison> Charu: What Alistair is saying makes sense. To prove a SC there are several tests, which each have a number of execution steps.
14:33:07 <agarrison> Wilco: Test is a rule.  Each rule is made of a number of execution steps.
14:34:12 <agarrison> Charu: You may have several sub-parts in a rule.  Which again are each formed from a number of execution steps.
14:34:39 <Wilco> https://wilcofiers.github.io/act-rules/rules/ACT-R2.html
14:35:50 <agarrison> Wilco: Charu, what are you suggesting we change in this particular rule.
14:36:57 <agarrison> Wilco: Charu are you suggesting that we change test execution steps to tests.
14:42:19 <agarrison> Alistair: I'd remove test case.  I'd just use step, rather than execution step.
14:42:48 <agarrison> Wilco: So it would become, each rule contains one or more stpes.
14:43:22 <agarrison> Wilco: Test procedure would be the main heading.
14:43:31 <agarrison> Charu: That's ok.
14:44:11 <agarrison> RESOLUTION: Use steps in place of test case / test execution steps.
14:44:28 <agarrison> Zakim, take up next
14:44:28 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Should we add a section on user input/interactive steps to the rules format?   https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/104" taken up [from Wilco]
14:45:01 <Wilco> https://wilcofiers.github.io/act-rules/rules/ACT-R2.html
14:45:13 <agarrison> Wilco: The question was - should we even do the user question bit?
14:46:03 <agarrison> Wilco: The questions were originally from auto-WCAG.  Designed to work with something like an expert system.
14:46:26 <agarrison> Wilco: Auto-WCAG even suggested tool design.
14:46:54 <agarrison> Wilco: Romain made the observation that we didn't add that to our format.
14:47:19 <agarrison> Wilco: Our format does not prescribe what should be put in the user interface.
14:49:16 <agarrison> Alistair: My take would be we don't need it right now.
14:49:57 <agarrison> Charu: Agree with what Alistair is saying.  In automation you don't want to break the flow / stop the build.  It would make things more manual than automated.
14:50:21 <agarrison> Charu: In this round, it makes more sense to think just about more automated tests.
14:51:09 <agarrison> Wilco: This feels to me viewed from one perspective.  We need to think that rules might be used in more than one place than automation testing.
14:51:49 <agarrison> Wilco: There is an organisation that does large scale testing, but they write out there tests for manual testing.
14:52:11 <agarrison> Wilco: It might be that the rules we are writing may not always be for automation.
14:55:09 <agarrison> Wilco: We are developing tests which can be used in many different areas.  So, we may want to include tests which capture manual steps.
14:55:27 <agarrison> Wilco: ACT needs to figure out manual stuff as well.
14:56:26 <agarrison> Charu: It would be good to standardise semi-auto + manual test procedures as well.  But, do we want to conquer everything - or maybe focus on automatic tests first.
14:58:25 <agarrison> Wilco: It is true that the need is most for fully automatic tests.
14:59:00 <agarrison> Alistair: It is the blending of automatic with manual then further automatic steps which is issue.  As that forms a block.
14:59:34 <agarrison> Wilco: I think we need to continue this conversation.
14:59:49 <agarrison> Wilco: Auto WCAG call tomorrow.
15:17:44 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:17:44 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:17:44 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Wilco, shadi, CPandhi, Kathy
15:17:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:17:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/28-wcag-act-minutes.html trackbot
15:17:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:17:53 <RRSAgent> I see no action items