14:10:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
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14:10:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:10:33 <trackbot> Date: 24 August 2017
14:18:00 <allanj> chair: Jim
14:18:08 <allanj> agenda?
14:18:28 <allanj> agenda+ Understanding https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21
14:53:01 <JohnRochford__> JohnRochford__ has joined #lvtf
15:06:31 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
15:06:58 <erich> is dial in code still 646 045 716?
15:07:46 <allanj> regrets+ Laura
15:08:22 <JohnRochford__> present+ JohnRochford
15:08:42 <shawn> s/ is dial in code still 646 045 716?//
15:08:54 <allanj> dialin info at https://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-lvtf-info.html
15:09:20 <shawn> present+
15:09:26 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:26 <Zakim> Present: Jim, Shawn, Glenda, JohnRochford, SteveRep
15:09:50 <shawn> Present: Jim, Shawn, JohnRochford, Erich
15:10:07 <allanj> regrets+ Glenda
15:12:18 <allanj> agenda?
15:12:32 <allanj> zakim, open item 3
15:12:32 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Understanding https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21" taken up [from allanj]
15:13:31 <shawn> Jim: list of Understanding docs. Chairs decided TF should do first pass. Would like before TPAC early Nov
15:13:36 <shawn> ... anyone can edit
15:15:28 <allanj> see the rendered (non-code view) - https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/understanding/21/
15:16:15 <shawn> ... that is list of all -- including ones that didn't get included
15:16:48 <shawn> Erich: I did understanding doc a few weeks ago and it hasn't been updated.
15:16:54 <shawn> Jim: Put it into here.
15:17:44 <shawn> s/Erich: I did understanding/JohnR: I did understanding
15:18:11 <allanj> see the rendered (non-code view) - https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/understanding/21/*short-name.html*
15:19:02 <shawn> These are just templates. Put content here. (some of it is elsewhere)
15:19:21 <allanj> see the rendered (non-code view) - https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/understanding/21/adapting-text.html
15:19:42 <shawn> For example, https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/master/understanding/21/adapting-text.html
15:19:50 <shawn> Jim: Also need to work on Techniques
15:20:33 <shawn> Shawn & Jim will update User Needs/Req doc as well
15:21:01 <allanj> zakim, close item 3
15:21:01 <Zakim> agendum 3, Understanding https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/tree/master/understanding/21, closed
15:21:03 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:21:03 <Zakim> 2. Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76 [from allanj]
15:21:35 <shawn> zakim, take up item 2
15:21:35 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76" taken up [from allanj]
15:24:35 <shawn> Erich: Not looking good based on call and comments.
15:25:01 <shawn> Shawn: Theere is some support and understanding. But a lot of misunderstandings
15:26:05 <shawn> Jim: Red herring (like in mystery books) -- not related to real issue.
15:26:31 <shawn> ... page size and zoom are red herrings
15:26:56 <shawn> s/(like in mystery books/(like in mystery books - throws you off course
15:27:24 <shawn> Erich: Likelihood of bringing people to understanding real issues?
15:28:41 <shawn> Jim: Responsive print design is a known best practice
15:28:51 <allanj> https://www.polyglotprogramminginc.com/responsive-design-and-print-styling/
15:29:02 <allanj> https://responsivedesign.is/articles/the-printer-is-a-device-too/
15:29:37 <shawn> Shawn: If there are legitimate issues, I'm fine letting it drop. But what I'm seeing is misunderstanding, not legitimate issues.
15:29:54 <allanj> Topic: Testing
15:30:36 <allanj> @media print {
15:30:38 <allanj>     body {
15:30:39 <allanj>         line-height: 1.5;
15:30:41 <allanj>         letter-spacing: .12em;
15:30:42 <allanj>         word-spacing: .16em;
15:30:44 <allanj>     }
15:30:45 <allanj>     p {
15:30:47 <allanj>         padding-bottom: 2em;
15:30:48 <allanj>     }
15:30:50 <allanj> }
15:30:56 <shawn> Jim: Set adapted text settings. If prints, then passes.
15:31:28 <allanj> sometimes I remove the @media and apply just to the rendered view to make it print correctly
15:32:48 <shawn> Erich: Need consensus by tomorrow
15:32:59 <allanj> author knows content, knows layout and knows whats important it should print fine with the settings above.
15:33:13 <allanj> the BROWSER does not know any of this.
15:34:47 <shawn> Erich: Some where under the impression that things that are at AAA now could be moved to AA possibly later.
15:35:15 <shawn> Jim: Getting it into the document, then can tweak.
15:35:18 <JohnRochford__> Correction: The comment just attributed to Erich was actually made by Jon,
15:35:21 <allanj> +1 to getting it in at AAA
15:35:21 <JohnRochford__> John
15:35:42 <shawn> s/Erich: Some /John: Some
15:36:15 <allanj> NOTE: there is no requirement for testing larger fonts
15:36:16 <shawn> Erich: propose CSS for testing. add as AAA for this version so it gets public input.
15:37:48 <shawn> Shawn: Need to clear up misunderstandings.
15:41:00 <shawn> Shawn: Some people understood importance but said OK to put off to WCAG 2.2. I'm very concerned about that approach. For several reasons, one being that 2.2 is not a given.
15:41:40 <shawn> [some discussion about why there is resistance]
15:43:11 <shawn> Erich: I
15:43:24 <shawn> Erich: I'll do next comment as SC manager.
15:43:47 <shawn> Jim updated https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
15:43:51 <allanj> update issue and the SC for viewing to say When a page can be printed, essential information is printed with no loss of content or adapted text properties. (Level AAA)
15:48:21 <allanj> survey - folks were not looking at current version. and did not understand the issue
15:50:58 <allanj> jim added definitions
15:56:51 <allanj> There are misunderstanding about what the SC covers. People were not reviewing the current wording. The SC doesnot cover Page/paper Size, Font Size, Zoom. Images will be covered in Techniques.
15:57:18 <allanj> the people who opposed this before should be able to review.
16:00:01 <shawn> s/ Images will be covered in Techniques./ Images not an issue with this proposed SC.
16:00:05 <allanj> img {max-width: 100%;}
16:08:08 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
16:13:58 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76#issuecomment-324167545
16:14:36 <allanj> if you put the adapted text in the rendered view, it prints. I think the issue is that we dont want the page to break when printing
16:19:51 <allanj> trackbot, end meeting
16:19:51 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:19:51 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jim, Shawn, JohnRochford, Erich
16:19:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:19:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/24-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:20:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:20:00 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:20:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
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16:21:06 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public