IRC log of coga on 2017-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:47:47 [RRSAgent]
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13:47:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:47:59 [lisa]
zakim, this will be
13:47:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', lisa
13:48:01 [lisa]
13:48:10 [lisa]
zakim, this will be WAI_CogTF
13:48:10 [Zakim]
ok, lisa
13:48:27 [lisa]
regrets: Mike Pluke
13:49:00 [lisa]
agenda: this
13:49:01 [lisa]
agenda+ updates - final SC for status:,
13:49:03 [lisa]
agenda+ updates on personlization TF, other updates
13:49:05 [lisa]
13:49:11 [lisa]
agenda+ wording for understanding sections , and
13:49:11 [lisa]
agenda+ the supplement, moving forward
13:49:11 [lisa]
agenda+ new issue papers!! updates on bots and navigation
13:49:13 [lisa]
agenda+ be done
13:59:11 [lisa]
meeting info is at
14:00:33 [JohnRochford]
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14:03:28 [AndyHeath]
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14:03:30 [NeilMilliken]
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14:03:38 [AndyHeath]
14:03:43 [AndyHeath]
14:05:12 [lisa]
scribe: kirkwood
14:05:26 [lisa]
zakim, next item
14:05:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "updates - final SC for status:," taken up [from lisa]
14:05:54 [kirkwood]
LS: satus document and will give a quick rundown
14:06:20 [kirkwood]
LS: went through interuptions, authiteciation, controls and metat data and timed evenst
14:06:22 [EA]
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14:06:36 [kirkwood]
LS: unso and timed events downt to AAA to get through
14:06:37 [EA]
Andy Heath is also here with EA
14:06:51 [kirkwood]
LS: we got in 6 which is better than none
14:07:13 [kirkwood]
LS: didn’t get add symbols but with puropse ccontol should enable it
14:07:32 [kirkwood]
LS: should be able to add symbols automtically
14:07:39 [kirkwood]
LS: its not everything we wnated
14:08:03 [kirkwood]
LS: going to publissh in a week and a half
14:08:15 [kirkwood]
LS: means we havfe until tuesday
14:08:32 [kirkwood]
LS: we are going to wrk first in google docs and port togithub later
14:08:43 [kirkwood]
LS: we’ll publish as part of roadmap
14:08:59 [kirkwood]
LS: shoul d move to a CSC so formally publishing as a roadmap
14:09:42 [kirkwood]
LS: we are not going to get anything new into draft but shcnages will happpen in draft, the level could change
14:09:50 [kirkwood]
LS: things can be removed
14:10:16 [kirkwood]
LS: purpose of controls and meta data are at riisk
14:11:17 [kirkwood]
LS: we can lose them, now is the time, not completely impossible that people will put in something that didnt get in if there is significant public objection
14:11:48 [kirkwood]
LS: there are maybe one or two its not imposible that will get pushed if enough of public feedback
14:12:04 [kirkwood]
LS: it will be really really important that there is feedback
14:12:17 [lisa]
zakim, next item
14:12:17 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "updates on personlization TF, other updates" taken up [from lisa]
14:12:19 [lisa]
14:12:34 [lisa]
zakim, take up item 3
14:12:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "wording for understanding sections ,
14:12:36 [Zakim]
... and" taken up [from lisa]
14:13:00 [kirkwood]
LS: we have a google document that deals with the understanding section
14:13:14 [kirkwood]
LS: we have until tuesday until it gets ported to github
14:13:44 [MichaelC]
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14:14:00 [kirkwood]
LS: wondering if we have time to review. Maybe until Sunday we could take a section and take up an issue and add comments
14:14:07 [NeilMilliken]
it's a holiday weekend in England
14:14:21 [kirkwood]
LS: we have 2 and wondering if we could each take a section and fill it in
14:14:55 [kirkwood]
LS: we know we are going to get pushback from comapanies that want less in for perrcieived expense
14:15:39 [kirkwood]
LS: having a goood understanding section that comes with draft will hopefully persuade them
14:16:10 [kirkwood]
this is the meta data one
14:16:33 [kirkwood]
LS: i do meta dat thats AAA
14:16:46 [kirkwood]
LS: adding contextual infromation needs more work
14:17:09 [kirkwood]
LS: problem with interruption and timed events I put issue next to each one
14:17:32 [kirkwood]
Is: issue 14 its called timeouts
14:17:52 [kirkwood]
LS: ther’s undo, did it get in?
14:18:07 [kirkwood]
LS: i think andrew said it got in
14:18:28 [kirkwood]
LS: he’s saying it went through
14:18:40 [kirkwood]
LS: lets wait on undo
14:19:16 [kirkwood]
LS: autheticcation, purpose controls, meta data, interruptions, timeouts
14:19:35 [kirkwood]
LS: copying over issue into documnent and improving on it
14:19:36 [lisa]
14:20:08 [kirkwood]
LS: earliest I can work on it is Sunday,
14:21:00 [EA]
14:21:02 [kirkwood]
ET; looked at all summaries, have been putting in document, confused issues to loook at
14:21:35 [kirkwood]
EA: has some accepted and some not , trying to work out which to address
14:21:43 [kirkwood]
LS: only the one thats accepted
14:22:03 [kirkwood]
EA: the ones that are accepted are which ones
14:22:35 [kirkwood]
LSEA: weve got controls interrupions contectual timeouts, undo is pending
14:22:49 [kirkwood]
14:22:58 [kirkwood]
14:23:20 [kirkwood]
EA: that five wanted to double check if thats all want indocument
14:23:32 [kirkwood]
LS: yes that sll we wanted for Tuesday
14:24:06 [kirkwood]
LS: we can work on things helping them get through, specifically controls
14:24:13 [kirkwood]
LS: we need techniques
14:24:23 [kirkwood]
LS: people unhappy with amount of attributes
14:24:45 [kirkwood]
LS: might be a way of getting list as is accepted
14:25:38 [kirkwood]
LS: we are going to work on differnet docuemnt. This gis going in working draft. We hav3e understanding sections think we’ll have less comments. if we tell people how to do it the more we put in understanding the better
14:26:15 [kirkwood]
LS: im going to try and copy over the content of the issues so people can add and add to it
14:26:38 [lisa]
action: lisa to copy info fro the issue
14:26:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-228 - Copy info fro the issue [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2017-08-31].
14:26:54 [kirkwood]
LS: if copy it over so that eveyone can add to it before tuesday
14:27:45 [kirkwood]
LS: do people think they can add to it, only want to di it if more can go over it imporve it. Such as add use cases, strengthen the argument
14:28:04 [kirkwood]
LS: id like to people to put hand up to do it before tueaday
14:28:48 [kirkwood]
EA: lets take interuptions we are trying to marry the two for instance you get WCAG working you can actully use soem of the ISO stuff
14:29:03 [lisa]
14:29:17 [AndyHeath]
14:29:20 [AndyHeath]
14:30:27 [kirkwood]
Andy: what we started to do is try and do a crosswalk between whats in tables, EA has been cleverly using her knowledge to deal with multiple documents. we spend ad day doing half a dozen took all day
14:30:53 [kirkwood]
Andy: just trying to identify coomonalities andits absolutel a large number
14:31:25 [kirkwood]
EA: undersatnding interruptions is the onw we are looking at
14:31:56 [kirkwood]
EA: need by tuesday we have bbank holiday monday so its going to be tight on time
14:32:16 [kirkwood]
LS: do you wnat ot copy ofver issue? I’ll try and do it after meeting
14:32:30 [AndyHeath]
14:32:33 [kirkwood]
EA: we are trying to do more user neeeds
14:32:57 [kirkwood]
Andy: there are som many commonalities ain ISO so much overlap
14:33:51 [kirkwood]
Andy: copy over to COGA . ISO is becoming more formal. EA has a collection of points. We have reahced a point we are doing same stuff but using different words
14:34:13 [kirkwood]
LS: absolutel in the understandin section these relate to ISO needs. that would be very useful
14:35:01 [kirkwood]
Andy: technically cant reference and ISO standard until its a standard, its going to take a long time to do . we’ve done half a dozen can see how long it will take.
14:35:15 [kirkwood]
Andy: tchnicall ISO havent freleased for comment yet
14:35:28 [kirkwood]
14:36:02 [kirkwood]
14:36:58 [kirkwood]
Andy: can do we need as many comments as we can get and exposure
14:37:40 [kirkwood]
LS: ileve it to you to cross reference, maybe as a note. work out with ISO trying to have cross reference
14:40:16 [kirkwood]
Andy: it would be good if we can work together, hoping that EA and i can work on it. from tuesday can be a public document. regarding the COga Sc understnding document
14:41:12 [kirkwood]
EA: I understand copying issue 46 into document, copy and paste benefits into it as starting point
14:41:47 [kirkwood]
EA: we will copy benefits document, and see if we can add in ISO topics
14:41:48 [lisa]
zakim, take up item 2
14:41:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "updates on personlization TF, other updates" taken up [from lisa]
14:42:12 [kirkwood]
LS: everyone else start reviewing
14:42:21 [kirkwood]
LS: any use caseds want to add put in
14:42:39 [kirkwood]
LS; we wont write over each others work don’t worry about tit
14:42:43 [kirkwood]
14:43:11 [kirkwood]
LS: I know Jan and Andy wanted to hjoin and now you can
14:43:23 [lisa]
zakim, next item
14:43:23 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, lisa
14:43:29 [kirkwood]
LS: semantics will be an excellent place for user needs as well
14:43:31 [lisa]
14:43:35 [lisa]
ack a
14:43:41 [lisa]
zakim, next item
14:43:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "wording for understanding sections ,
14:43:43 [Zakim]
... and" taken up [from lisa]
14:43:53 [lisa]
zakim, take up item 4
14:43:53 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "the supplement, moving forward" taken up [from lisa]
14:43:56 [kirkwood]
ANdy: wil carry on working on it in background
14:44:38 [kirkwood]
Andy: if anyone wnats a draft let hinm know and he willsend it to you
14:44:50 [kirkwood]
Andy: can share documents its ok
14:45:07 [lisa]
14:45:24 [kirkwood]
next item
14:46:27 [kirkwood]
LS: we’’ve got six things that might get in to WCAG 2.1 we’ve proposed 39
14:46:56 [kirkwood]
LS: we’ve got great information that we don’t want to get lost
14:48:02 [kirkwood]
LS: we want to put together a document, but politically need to figure out how. What we are putting togther is a roadmap section. inclueding user testing, user agent issue, user needs and all kinds of things
14:49:04 [kirkwood]
LS: it will be a useful resourc3e ddocument, for supplement, or silver, or any other things like smart cities. Trying to ;put it all in one place. The way we’re going to di it is in roadmap
14:49:06 [lisa]
14:49:15 [kirkwood]
LS: does everyone understand
14:49:24 [NeilMilliken]
14:49:54 [kirkwood]
Andy: the aim of having everthing in one place is a good idea
14:50:36 [kirkwood]
Andy: worrd of caution not to overlapping too strongly with others, its difficult
14:51:01 [kirkwood]
LS; we should putlish after so people can review
14:51:27 [kirkwood]
14:51:38 [JohnRochford_]
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14:51:44 [lisa]
14:51:47 [kirkwood]
LS: we get in a bit of a mess with puclishing we should sort it out
14:51:49 [lisa]
ack n
14:51:53 [JohnRochford_]
present+ JohnRochford
14:52:18 [JohnRochford_]
Gotta get to the Low Vision Task Force meeting now. Ciao.
14:52:37 [kirkwood]
Neil: had a brief loook with roadmp, issue not with keeping all in one place. To me roacmap doesn’t shout out of list of everything we need to know
14:52:59 [kirkwood]
Neil: why do we use that name
14:53:18 [kirkwood]
LS: we have a roadmap
14:54:59 [kirkwood]
roadmap to accessiblity could be the way to characterize it
14:55:46 [EA]
14:56:08 [kirkwood]
“Roadmap to Cognitve Accessiblity” could be used by large corporations and all entities
14:56:46 [lisa]
14:57:10 [kirkwood]
LS: if we are looking at it as a roadmap could look at it as cognitive accesiblity roadmap
14:57:45 [kirkwood]
LS: ii’m changing it to building your own roadmap
14:58:04 [AndyHeath]
14:58:08 [kirkwood]
LS: we can change it and play around how this one looks
14:58:18 [AndyHeath]
14:58:23 [kirkwood]
LS: we want a bit more that maybe is missing from WCAG
14:58:46 [kirkwood]
LS: issues such as user testing, research, intnternatinliazation, author burden
14:58:59 [kirkwood]
LS: and then how can you build policy with this information
14:59:23 [lisa]
14:59:46 [AndyHeath]
14:59:48 [kirkwood]
LS: wanted to mention TPAC, because of new task froce on personlization I’m going to have to make it htere. Can other people come? if they can I’ll see if I can get ameeting rooom for at least one day
15:00:33 [lisa]
Ack ea
15:00:39 [lisa]
ack and
15:00:59 [kirkwood]
I think I will be going to TPAC
15:02:31 [kirkwood]
LS: what efforst to keep what we have in 2.1. going to need some work there, if anyone can help with perosnlization or simething like that. things that might make it happen such as people using things
15:05:58 [lisa]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:06:07 [lisa]
rrsagent, create minutes
15:06:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate lisa
15:06:44 [lisa]
zakim, please part
15:06:44 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been AndyHeath, JohnRochford
15:06:44 [Zakim]
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15:06:59 [lisa]
rssagent, please part
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