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15:49:31 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:49:32 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Meeting
15:49:42 <ivan> Chair: Rick
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15:59:46 <ivan> present+ ivan
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16:01:03 <laudrain> present+ Luc
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16:01:49 <George> present+ George
16:02:34 <ivan> present+ rickj
16:02:42 <ivan> scribenick: billm
16:02:59 <ivan> present+ graham
16:03:39 <ivan> present+ junichi_yoshii, laudrain, paul_belfanti, Bill_kasdorf
16:04:15 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:04:15 <Zakim> Present: ivan, tzviya, Luc, George, rickj, graham, junichi_yoshii, laudrain, paul_belfanti, Bill_kasdorf
16:04:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see graham, George, BillM, tzviya, laudrain, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, Karen
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16:04:34 <pbelfanti> present+
16:04:36 <garth> present+ Garth
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16:08:56 <graham> Bill M spoke... attended W3M Woods meeting main point is lack of membership and revenue growth does W3C cut back on activity because theere is less demand or continue to expand role of 'leading the web to full potential' general view of W3M was to pursue the latter work afoot to explore what this means in practice may involve work on testbeds and pilots (idea based on work within IoT world) within W3C may be more concrete that a community group but less form[CUT]
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16:09:20 <graham> a standards dev activity BillM on taskforce to explore this 'testbed' idea (not necessarily limited to publishing) more detail on next call if anyone has ideas for testbed, let BillM know  Meeting attendees almost all involved in programme committee and summit development over the summer good speakers lined up for the summit publicity now started, 50 attendees registered so far a little work to do on website for event Any questions?
16:09:22 <BillM> sorry BillK didn't know you were on!
16:09:26 <BillM> :-(
16:09:48 <BillM> BillK: pleased at diverse POVs in prog comm, became useful dynamic
16:10:22 <BillM> ... bus people may think too much tech and techies may think too much biz but that probably indicates a nice balance
16:11:17 <BillM> ... in PW already (Calvin Reid)
16:11:31 <BillM> Ivan: French mag had news about summit also
16:12:09 <BillM> BillK: benefit of diverse POV in prog comm is diversity in speakers (gender and geographic)
16:13:25 <George> My personal views at this time are:
16:13:26 <George> •	I agree that an International Standard (IS) carries much more weight than a Technical Specification (TS).
16:13:28 <George> •	When Japan votes against Korea’s   submission of EPUB 3.0.1 as a TS, there will be more of an incentive for Korea to move EPUB 3.0.1 forward in the FastTrack process as an IS.
16:13:29 <George> •	EPUB 3.1 does not yet have epubcheck support, but that should come fairly soon, and when EPUB 3.1 is widely used, then moving that forward as the successor to EPUB 3.0.1 in ISO would be reasonable.
16:13:31 <George> •	 Once EPUB 3.0.1 moves forward in the ISO process as a IS, then also moving EPUB Accessibility Specification 1.x forward as an ISO IS would be reasonable.
16:13:31 <ivan> topic: ISO conversation
16:13:32 <George> I suspect that the PBG SC would need to consider this information and if the SC agrees then bring it to the wider PBG to build concensis. Perhaps the eventual outcome would be to lobby our Korean friends to consider their submission of EPUB 3.0.1 as an ISO IS. If there is forward movement there, then we would also move the EPUB Accessibility spec in to ISO as an IS, probably doing the work...
16:13:34 <George> ...in the EPUB CG.
16:15:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:15:47 <ivan> q+
16:16:43 <BillM> George: I feel same way about weight of IS vs. TS
16:16:49 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:16:51 <BillM> q+
16:17:07 <laudrain> q+
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16:18:26 <ivan> present+ Liisa, leslie
16:18:28 <graham> references to ISO standards are more often in official procurement policies and the like, rather than in laws
16:18:38 <BillM> George: DAISY board preferred IS for gov't endorsement, and EU folks indicated to Cristina et. al. that if IS that would deter them from creating something EU specific
16:18:59 <ivan> ack ivan
16:19:02 <BillM> George: because EPUB has no formal status in W3C as-is a11y spec would probably not be referenced by EU
16:19:50 <BillM> Ivan: not happy to see 3.0.1 to go to IS, wrong message that will harm 3.1... that it is it not implemented widely should not be barrier as I have edited IS's that have zero implementtation so not sure it carries much weight
16:19:50 <ivan> q?
16:20:34 <BillM> George: 3.1 could be next logical step after 3.0.1
16:21:12 <BillM> BillK: procurement issues actually important to publishers
16:21:29 <BillM> Ivan: could retard EEPUB 3.1
16:21:31 <ivan> ack BillM
16:21:44 <ivan> s/EEPUB/EPUB/
16:22:04 <laudrain> From last MAKOTO email on ISO subjet :  I will start to prepare a new work
16:22:04 <laudrain> item proposal for a TS for EPUB accessibility.
16:22:49 <ivan> regrets+ mikebaker
16:24:07 <ivan> q?
16:25:40 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:25:49 <ivan> q+ George
16:26:03 <graham> agree with all that BillM and Ivan said re IS vs TS
16:26:22 <BillM> Luc: for EU, it's clear that they will use/refer any ISO or W3C work on a11y standard
16:26:46 <BillM> ... Cristina and I will push that they take any work from ISO/W3C, that EU follow it
16:27:10 <BillM> ... they told us that they have to follow international synchronizations by mandate, so we are confident that whatever we do at iso or w3c will be taken into account by the EU commission
16:27:41 <BillM> ... but last email from Makoto said "I will start to prepare a new work item for *TS* for EPUB Accessibility"...
16:28:05 <BillM> ... so I understand that new work item is not an IS work item or any work item of EPUB 3.0.1 but is about EPUB Accessibility, a new work item for TS
16:28:26 <BillM> BillM -- I think Korean folks are maybe not coordinated with Makoto!
16:28:45 <BillM> BillM -- maybe Korean folks are the ones that want to upgrade 3.0.1 to IS
16:29:02 <BillM> Luc: it is is question of having something in ISO or W3C about EPUB A11y
16:29:04 <BillM> q+
16:29:33 <ivan> ack George
16:30:02 <pbelfanti> Apologies, need to drop
16:30:09 <BillM> George: dont' know if we could move forward with EPUB Accessibility as TS/IS but should move it forward in ISO process somehow
16:30:33 <BillM> ... would think that this SC would make some recommendations and bring to larger PBG for transparency sake
16:30:42 <ivan> ack BillM
16:31:58 <tzviya> q+
16:32:11 <George> qq+q+
16:32:22 <ivan> q+ George
16:32:25 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:33:44 <graham> q+
16:33:52 <ivan> ack George
16:34:54 <BillM> George: EPUB A11y metadata now into WCAG 2.1, Sep draft coming, it's in optional conformance section so not AA but could be AAA, not as forceful as we might want but at least we did get that much in
16:35:00 <ivan> ack graham
16:35:56 <BillM> Graham: agree with most of the reservations of ISO process... there are definitely benefits but one of the main benefits is there is a great deal of word by word scrutiny of standrads... can help but takes significant amounts of time. I don't think ISO and doing things within W3C (as suggested by BillM/Luc) are not mutually exclusive and W3C route could be faster
16:36:07 <BillM> ... but it does seem a backwards step to push EPUB 3.0.1 in any form within ISO
16:36:10 <laudrain> +1
16:36:12 <ivan> q?
16:36:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:36:39 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:36:49 <laudrain> q+
16:36:52 <BillM> BillK: A11y is an accessibility 1.0 spec (designed not to align with any particular versoin)
16:37:07 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:37:11 <BillM> q+
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16:37:52 <BillM> Luc: idea of pushing W3C formalization of a11y spec (BillM's) is interesting
16:38:08 <ivan> ack BillM
16:38:57 <tzviya> q+ rickj
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16:39:45 <graham> q+
16:40:12 <graham> q-
16:40:33 <BillM> Rick: doesn't sound like we have a clear consensus as to what to bring to larger group...
16:40:59 <BillM> option a) window-dressing on upgrade to EPUB Accessibility spec in manner that might be acceptable to EU
16:40:59 <graham> backward step if it is the only thing that gets done. If it is a milestone on the way to getting 3.1 into ISO, then maybe okay
16:41:31 <BillM> ... option b to do TS via ISO, option c to do IS via ISO, can we have champions write up these options?
16:41:45 <jyoshii> heip
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16:42:26 <BillM> Luc: as a member of French standardization organization I will support any new item that Makoto would start pushing in ISO, if Makoto starts a new TS for EPUB Accessibility he will need at least 5 countries to vote for it
16:42:38 <BillM> ... I will explain to our French org that we haev to support and I think they will do
16:42:46 <BillM> ... I can be a champion of this item
16:43:39 <BillM> Ivan: process-wise, this is done in CG for which the CG defines its own process
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16:45:55 <BillM> ACTION: BillM to get fodder for ideas for CG standardization to Rick and Luc
16:46:23 <BillM> George: having publication accessibility standards apply for all web pages not feasible at this time
16:46:57 <BillM> Rick: what agenda for next BG call?
16:47:02 <ivan> Topic: how to steer the BG
16:47:49 <BillM> Tzviya: little discussion about maint in the EPUB 3 CG at this time
16:48:22 <BillM> George: task forces in the CG exist, do we want to see if any agenda items from these to put out to full PBG?
16:48:58 <BillM> Tzivya: EPUBCheck volunteer wrangling still WIP - need serious Java dev
16:49:16 <BillM> BillM: I wiould like BG agenda item for BillK or me to promo Pub Summit
16:49:20 <BillM> 2 minutes
16:49:30 <BillM> Ric: email ideas please
16:49:48 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:49:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/22-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan
16:50:06 <graham> quit
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