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13:53:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/14-wcag-act-irc
13:53:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:53:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:53:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:53:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:53:26 <trackbot> Date: 14 August 2017
13:53:40 <Wilco> agenda?
13:53:42 <Wilco> agenda+ Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format
13:54:18 <Wilco> agenda+ Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-1-1-aria-describedby.html
13:54:44 <Wilco> agenda+ Rule: SC3-1-1-html https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC3-1-1-html.html
13:55:06 <Wilco> agenda Rule: Button https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC4-1-2-button.html
13:55:31 <Wilco> agenda+ Rule meta-refresh https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC2-2-1+SC3-2-5-meta-refresh.html
13:56:56 <Wilco> agenda?
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13:58:28 <Wilco> agenda+ Rule: Autio-control https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html
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14:04:13 <MoeKraft> present+ MoeKraft
14:04:21 <MoeKraft> scribenick, MoeKraft
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14:04:51 <anne_thyme> present+
14:04:59 <maryjom> present+
14:05:14 <Wilco> present+
14:05:17 <tobias> present+
14:05:21 <MoeKraft> scribenick; MoeKraft
14:05:23 <rdeltour> present+
14:05:34 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:05:34 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format" taken up [from Wilco]
14:05:57 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Deadline to release at end of August
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14:06:11 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Need to get to an agreement of the draft next week.
14:06:47 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Will send out at end of the meeting. Take a look and if you have any comments. Mostly editorial but if major concerns we want those too.
14:06:53 <Skotkjerra> present+
14:07:06 <MoeKraft> Wilco: To achieve a draft next week, we really need to review
14:07:12 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:07:12 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-1-1-aria-describedby.html" taken up [from Wilco]
14:08:04 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We want at least 2 to 3 examples of rules. First one is aria-describedby
14:10:50 <rdeltour> q+
14:12:00 <MoeKraft> Romain: There is a bit of mismatch between the specification and the format of the rule. Should update the rule to match the specification.
14:12:14 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Only significant thing to do is to have examples.
14:12:47 <MoeKraft> Romain: Need unique identifier. It is not mentioned explicitly. The Accessibility Requirements of Test Input Types also need to be clearly stated.
14:12:59 <tobias> q+
14:13:05 <rdeltour> ack rd
14:13:17 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, you have made it clear that the rule needs to be updated to match specification. Do we agree though that this is a good example of a rule to include?
14:13:25 <rdeltour> ack to
14:14:05 <MoeKraft> Tobias: I think this is a suitable rule. The assumptions need to be clearer. For example, what do we mean by "properly used" in this context.
14:14:35 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Who would like to get this rule into shape so we can publish it as an example?
14:14:48 <MoeKraft> Tobias: I could take a look at this one.
14:15:18 <rdeltour> q+
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14:15:32 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
14:15:47 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Tobias can we get this done by end of week? Let me know if you have questions.
14:15:51 <Wilco> ack r
14:16:13 <MoeKraft> Romain: Having an example is great but would also be good to have an example of a page.
14:16:45 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We need to create test cases. Excellent suggestion but no time for that now.
14:16:56 <MoeKraft> Romain: Understood, can wait til next release.
14:17:00 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:17:00 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Rule: SC3-1-1-html https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC3-1-1-html.html" taken up [from Wilco]
14:17:43 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Anne suggested Not to Publish
14:18:19 <MoeKraft> Tobias: Assumptions were kind of muddy. Needed to reread the first assumption multiple times to understand it.
14:18:56 <MoeKraft> Tobias: Confused by Step 1 that it should resolve in Do Nothing as outcome. I don't think I've seen that for any tests. Is this on purpose?
14:19:15 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We've used this in the past but it is not covered in rules format. Good point.
14:19:40 <MoeKraft> Romain: Also assumption states html lang attribute is taken into account but it's actually not here.
14:19:56 <rdeltour> s/Romain/Tobias/
14:20:14 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Good point. Let's not discuss rule too much.
14:20:22 <MoeKraft> Tobias: Rule is good but needs work.
14:20:30 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, let's pass on this one.
14:20:43 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:20:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Rule meta-refresh https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC2-2-1+SC3-2-5-meta-refresh.html" taken up [from Wilco]
14:21:15 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Again, No to publish from Anne and team
14:21:29 <MoeKraft> Wilco: What is the objection? Is it too straight forward?
14:21:52 <MoeKraft> Tobias: I think this one is suitable
14:23:00 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Correction, there is no objection to publish this rule.
14:23:22 <MoeKraft> Tobias: Do need to correct description. Not completely correct.
14:24:13 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Do we feel this is too straight forward or do this show the point efficiently?
14:24:43 <MoeKraft> Stein Erik: I think it is good to be straight forward
14:25:02 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft: This would need updating in the formatting to match specification.
14:25:10 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Yes. Any takers?
14:25:21 <MoeKraft> Kathy: What are you asking?
14:25:42 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Before publishing these rules, they need to fit the draft rules format. There is some shuffling and renaming that needs to be done.
14:26:06 <MoeKraft> Wilco: May need Accessibility Supported and Test cases to validate the rule with.
14:26:36 <MoeKraft> Kathy: I can help out a little bit but might take me a bit longer.
14:26:53 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Can you send me some details?
14:27:11 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Can we edit in github?
14:27:17 <MoeKraft> Wilco: I have a repository.
14:27:44 <MoeKraft> Wilco: I don't mind where we do this. I will make sure to include it in the spec for publish.
14:27:52 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:27:52 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Rule: Autio-control https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html" taken up [from Wilco]
14:28:40 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We got no votes on this one. Do we want to take 5 minutes to read?
14:28:51 <MoeKraft> https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html
14:30:10 <rdeltour> q+
14:32:31 <Kathy> q+
14:33:03 <MoeKraft> Romain: This rule is semi-automated. There are some user input questions. That is not described in our rules format.
14:33:22 <MoeKraft> Romain: Should we describe this in the rules format for interactive steps?
14:33:35 <Kathy> q-
14:33:38 <MoeKraft> Wilco: This is really just one way of dealing with user questions.
14:33:42 <rdeltour> ack rd
14:33:56 <MoeKraft> Wilco: The rules format does not describe how you are supposed to do this.
14:34:04 <MoeKraft> Wilco: I'm not sure.
14:34:45 <MoeKraft> Romain: In beta, we state that the test mode for the rule itself but say nothing about the test steps.
14:35:03 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We used to do that in Auto WCAG but it's really obvious. They are easy to identify.
14:35:42 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Identifying whether automated, semi-automated or manual did not provide a lot of value. Do we need to talk further about user input?
14:35:52 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Let's add this to our issues list.
14:35:54 <rdeltour> +1
14:37:04 <MoeKraft> Romain: I think it is okay. Because the spec doesn't mandate this maybe one can word the step in their own way. We can wait for next release to further define.
14:37:43 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Good point. We are writing these rules in plain language so that they can be executed by QA and not necessarily automated.
14:38:43 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We can return to look at this again. Moe, create an issue on Github.
14:38:51 <MoeKraft> q+
14:40:10 <MoeKraft> Romain: There is inconsistency. Step 5 is confusing. It is checking for video.
14:40:18 <Kathy> q+
14:40:33 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Agreed, need another branch. But I do like this rule. Shows creative approach of the rules format.
14:40:43 <Wilco> ack moe
14:42:12 <Wilco> ack k
14:42:31 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft: The description contradicts itself. How about, "This test checks that any sound that plays automatically when a web page is loaded stops after 3 seconds or the web page provides a user control to turn off the sound."
14:42:47 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Why are we restricting step 5 to just video?
14:43:39 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Not sure why step 5 says video. This was written awhile ago. If I can recall, I think we wanted to look at HTML5 technologies.
14:44:19 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Instead of using old technology like Flash or Silverlight. Are there any other ways of doing it?
14:44:34 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Could just link to mp3 file
14:44:45 <MoeKraft> Wilco: But that would need a different rule
14:45:07 <MoeKraft> Kathy: so restricting only to audio and video elements. Why do we need a manual test for video?
14:45:31 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, I need to think about this more. I think step 5 should be "audio or video" element
14:46:16 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Description of step 5 should be just "if audio is playing"
14:46:42 <MoeKraft> Wilco: What do folks think about publishing this one?
14:46:57 <MoeKraft> Tobias: I like it. It's quite clean from the longer rules.
14:47:18 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, I think it needs a bit of updating. Anyone who can update this in the coming week?
14:47:38 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, I will do it.
14:47:49 <MoeKraft> zakim, take up next
14:47:49 <Zakim> I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, MoeKraft
14:48:10 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Ok, so we have 3 rules. Let's try to get them done by end of week.
14:49:00 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft: I can generate a new draft today.
14:49:00 <Skotkjerra> q+
14:49:36 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft: What about "test execution steps" issue?
14:49:46 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Do you think the changes are small enough to move in?
14:50:39 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft: It is just updating terminology
14:51:11 <MoeKraft> Wilco: We will send out a survey with the latest draft. Please put your comments in the survey.
14:51:17 <MoeKraft> Wilco: Thank you very much!
14:51:40 <MoeKraft> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:51:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/14-wcag-act-minutes.html MoeKraft
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