IRC log of wcag-act on 2017-08-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:53:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
13:53:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:53:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:53:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #wcag-act
13:53:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:53:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:53:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:53:26 [trackbot]
Date: 14 August 2017
13:53:40 [Wilco]
13:53:42 [Wilco]
agenda+ Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format
13:54:18 [Wilco]
agenda+ Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby
13:54:44 [Wilco]
agenda+ Rule: SC3-1-1-html
13:55:06 [Wilco]
agenda Rule: Button
13:55:31 [Wilco]
agenda+ Rule meta-refresh
13:56:56 [Wilco]
13:57:28 [tobias]
tobias has joined #wcag-act
13:58:28 [Wilco]
agenda+ Rule: Autio-control
14:01:25 [rdeltour]
rdeltour has joined #wcag-act
14:04:08 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft has joined #wcag-act
14:04:12 [anne_thyme]
anne_thyme has joined #wcag-act
14:04:13 [MoeKraft]
present+ MoeKraft
14:04:21 [MoeKraft]
scribenick, MoeKraft
14:04:26 [maryjom]
maryjom has joined #wcag-act
14:04:51 [anne_thyme]
14:04:59 [maryjom]
14:05:14 [Wilco]
14:05:17 [tobias]
14:05:21 [MoeKraft]
scribenick; MoeKraft
14:05:23 [rdeltour]
14:05:34 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:05:34 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format" taken up [from Wilco]
14:05:57 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Deadline to release at end of August
14:06:00 [Skotkjerra]
Skotkjerra has joined #wcag-act
14:06:11 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Need to get to an agreement of the draft next week.
14:06:47 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Will send out at end of the meeting. Take a look and if you have any comments. Mostly editorial but if major concerns we want those too.
14:06:53 [Skotkjerra]
14:07:06 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: To achieve a draft next week, we really need to review
14:07:12 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:07:12 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby" taken up [from Wilco]
14:08:04 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We want at least 2 to 3 examples of rules. First one is aria-describedby
14:10:50 [rdeltour]
14:12:00 [MoeKraft]
Romain: There is a bit of mismatch between the specification and the format of the rule. Should update the rule to match the specification.
14:12:14 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Only significant thing to do is to have examples.
14:12:47 [MoeKraft]
Romain: Need unique identifier. It is not mentioned explicitly. The Accessibility Requirements of Test Input Types also need to be clearly stated.
14:12:59 [tobias]
14:13:05 [rdeltour]
ack rd
14:13:17 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, you have made it clear that the rule needs to be updated to match specification. Do we agree though that this is a good example of a rule to include?
14:13:25 [rdeltour]
ack to
14:14:05 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: I think this is a suitable rule. The assumptions need to be clearer. For example, what do we mean by "properly used" in this context.
14:14:35 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Who would like to get this rule into shape so we can publish it as an example?
14:14:48 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: I could take a look at this one.
14:15:18 [rdeltour]
14:15:23 [Kathy]
Kathy has joined #wcag-act
14:15:32 [Kathy]
present+ Kathy
14:15:47 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Tobias can we get this done by end of week? Let me know if you have questions.
14:15:51 [Wilco]
ack r
14:16:13 [MoeKraft]
Romain: Having an example is great but would also be good to have an example of a page.
14:16:45 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We need to create test cases. Excellent suggestion but no time for that now.
14:16:56 [MoeKraft]
Romain: Understood, can wait til next release.
14:17:00 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:17:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Rule: SC3-1-1-html" taken up [from Wilco]
14:17:43 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Anne suggested Not to Publish
14:18:19 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: Assumptions were kind of muddy. Needed to reread the first assumption multiple times to understand it.
14:18:56 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: Confused by Step 1 that it should resolve in Do Nothing as outcome. I don't think I've seen that for any tests. Is this on purpose?
14:19:15 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We've used this in the past but it is not covered in rules format. Good point.
14:19:40 [MoeKraft]
Romain: Also assumption states html lang attribute is taken into account but it's actually not here.
14:19:56 [rdeltour]
14:20:14 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Good point. Let's not discuss rule too much.
14:20:22 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: Rule is good but needs work.
14:20:30 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, let's pass on this one.
14:20:43 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:20:43 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Rule meta-refresh" taken up [from Wilco]
14:21:15 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Again, No to publish from Anne and team
14:21:29 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: What is the objection? Is it too straight forward?
14:21:52 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: I think this one is suitable
14:23:00 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Correction, there is no objection to publish this rule.
14:23:22 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: Do need to correct description. Not completely correct.
14:24:13 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Do we feel this is too straight forward or do this show the point efficiently?
14:24:43 [MoeKraft]
Stein Erik: I think it is good to be straight forward
14:25:02 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft: This would need updating in the formatting to match specification.
14:25:10 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Yes. Any takers?
14:25:21 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: What are you asking?
14:25:42 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Before publishing these rules, they need to fit the draft rules format. There is some shuffling and renaming that needs to be done.
14:26:06 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: May need Accessibility Supported and Test cases to validate the rule with.
14:26:36 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: I can help out a little bit but might take me a bit longer.
14:26:53 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: Can you send me some details?
14:27:11 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: Can we edit in github?
14:27:17 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: I have a repository.
14:27:44 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: I don't mind where we do this. I will make sure to include it in the spec for publish.
14:27:52 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:27:52 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Rule: Autio-control" taken up [from Wilco]
14:28:40 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We got no votes on this one. Do we want to take 5 minutes to read?
14:28:51 [MoeKraft]
14:30:10 [rdeltour]
14:32:31 [Kathy]
14:33:03 [MoeKraft]
Romain: This rule is semi-automated. There are some user input questions. That is not described in our rules format.
14:33:22 [MoeKraft]
Romain: Should we describe this in the rules format for interactive steps?
14:33:35 [Kathy]
14:33:38 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: This is really just one way of dealing with user questions.
14:33:42 [rdeltour]
ack rd
14:33:56 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: The rules format does not describe how you are supposed to do this.
14:34:04 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: I'm not sure.
14:34:45 [MoeKraft]
Romain: In beta, we state that the test mode for the rule itself but say nothing about the test steps.
14:35:03 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We used to do that in Auto WCAG but it's really obvious. They are easy to identify.
14:35:42 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Identifying whether automated, semi-automated or manual did not provide a lot of value. Do we need to talk further about user input?
14:35:52 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Let's add this to our issues list.
14:35:54 [rdeltour]
14:37:04 [MoeKraft]
Romain: I think it is okay. Because the spec doesn't mandate this maybe one can word the step in their own way. We can wait for next release to further define.
14:37:43 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Good point. We are writing these rules in plain language so that they can be executed by QA and not necessarily automated.
14:38:43 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We can return to look at this again. Moe, create an issue on Github.
14:38:51 [MoeKraft]
14:40:10 [MoeKraft]
Romain: There is inconsistency. Step 5 is confusing. It is checking for video.
14:40:18 [Kathy]
14:40:33 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Agreed, need another branch. But I do like this rule. Shows creative approach of the rules format.
14:40:43 [Wilco]
ack moe
14:42:12 [Wilco]
ack k
14:42:31 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft: The description contradicts itself. How about, "This test checks that any sound that plays automatically when a web page is loaded stops after 3 seconds or the web page provides a user control to turn off the sound."
14:42:47 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: Why are we restricting step 5 to just video?
14:43:39 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Not sure why step 5 says video. This was written awhile ago. If I can recall, I think we wanted to look at HTML5 technologies.
14:44:19 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Instead of using old technology like Flash or Silverlight. Are there any other ways of doing it?
14:44:34 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: Could just link to mp3 file
14:44:45 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: But that would need a different rule
14:45:07 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: so restricting only to audio and video elements. Why do we need a manual test for video?
14:45:31 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, I need to think about this more. I think step 5 should be "audio or video" element
14:46:16 [MoeKraft]
Kathy: Description of step 5 should be just "if audio is playing"
14:46:42 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: What do folks think about publishing this one?
14:46:57 [MoeKraft]
Tobias: I like it. It's quite clean from the longer rules.
14:47:18 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, I think it needs a bit of updating. Anyone who can update this in the coming week?
14:47:38 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, I will do it.
14:47:49 [MoeKraft]
zakim, take up next
14:47:49 [Zakim]
I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, MoeKraft
14:48:10 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Ok, so we have 3 rules. Let's try to get them done by end of week.
14:49:00 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft: I can generate a new draft today.
14:49:00 [Skotkjerra]
14:49:36 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft: What about "test execution steps" issue?
14:49:46 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Do you think the changes are small enough to move in?
14:50:39 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft: It is just updating terminology
14:51:11 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: We will send out a survey with the latest draft. Please put your comments in the survey.
14:51:17 [MoeKraft]
Wilco: Thank you very much!
14:51:40 [MoeKraft]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:51:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MoeKraft
15:13:56 [rdeltour]
rdeltour has joined #wcag-act
16:00:10 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #wcag-act
17:13:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wcag-act
22:23:40 [rdeltour]
rdeltour has joined #wcag-act