IRC log of wcag-act on 2017-08-14

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/14-wcag-act-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs public

13:53:23 [Zakim]

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Zakim, this will be

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I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

13:53:26 [trackbot]

Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

13:53:26 [trackbot]

Date: 14 August 2017

13:53:40 [Wilco]

agenda?

13:53:42 [Wilco]

agenda+ Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format

13:54:18 [Wilco]

agenda+ Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-1-1-aria-describedby.html

13:54:44 [Wilco]

agenda+ Rule: SC3-1-1-html https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC3-1-1-html.html

13:55:06 [Wilco]

agenda Rule: Button https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC4-1-2-button.html

13:55:31 [Wilco]

agenda+ Rule meta-refresh https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC2-2-1+SC3-2-5-meta-refresh.html

13:56:56 [Wilco]

agenda?

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13:58:28 [Wilco]

agenda+ Rule: Autio-control https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html

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14:04:08 [MoeKraft]

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14:04:13 [MoeKraft]

present+ MoeKraft

14:04:21 [MoeKraft]

scribenick, MoeKraft

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14:04:51 [anne_thyme]

present+

14:04:59 [maryjom]

present+

14:05:14 [Wilco]

present+

14:05:17 [tobias]

present+

14:05:21 [MoeKraft]

scribenick; MoeKraft

14:05:23 [rdeltour]

present+

14:05:34 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:05:34 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Upcoming public working draft of the ACT Rules Format" taken up [from Wilco]

14:05:57 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Deadline to release at end of August

14:06:00 [Skotkjerra]

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14:06:11 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Need to get to an agreement of the draft next week.

14:06:47 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Will send out at end of the meeting. Take a look and if you have any comments. Mostly editorial but if major concerns we want those too.

14:06:53 [Skotkjerra]

present+

14:07:06 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: To achieve a draft next week, we really need to review

14:07:12 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:07:12 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Rule: SC1-1-1-aria-describedby https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-1-1-aria-describedby.html" taken up [from Wilco]

14:08:04 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We want at least 2 to 3 examples of rules. First one is aria-describedby

14:10:50 [rdeltour]

q+

14:12:00 [MoeKraft]

Romain: There is a bit of mismatch between the specification and the format of the rule. Should update the rule to match the specification.

14:12:14 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Only significant thing to do is to have examples.

14:12:47 [MoeKraft]

Romain: Need unique identifier. It is not mentioned explicitly. The Accessibility Requirements of Test Input Types also need to be clearly stated.

14:12:59 [tobias]

q+

14:13:05 [rdeltour]

ack rd

14:13:17 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, you have made it clear that the rule needs to be updated to match specification. Do we agree though that this is a good example of a rule to include?

14:13:25 [rdeltour]

ack to

14:14:05 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: I think this is a suitable rule. The assumptions need to be clearer. For example, what do we mean by "properly used" in this context.

14:14:35 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Who would like to get this rule into shape so we can publish it as an example?

14:14:48 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: I could take a look at this one.

14:15:18 [rdeltour]

q+

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14:15:32 [Kathy]

present+ Kathy

14:15:47 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Tobias can we get this done by end of week? Let me know if you have questions.

14:15:51 [Wilco]

ack r

14:16:13 [MoeKraft]

Romain: Having an example is great but would also be good to have an example of a page.

14:16:45 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We need to create test cases. Excellent suggestion but no time for that now.

14:16:56 [MoeKraft]

Romain: Understood, can wait til next release.

14:17:00 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:17:00 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Rule: SC3-1-1-html https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC3-1-1-html.html" taken up [from Wilco]

14:17:43 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Anne suggested Not to Publish

14:18:19 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: Assumptions were kind of muddy. Needed to reread the first assumption multiple times to understand it.

14:18:56 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: Confused by Step 1 that it should resolve in Do Nothing as outcome. I don't think I've seen that for any tests. Is this on purpose?

14:19:15 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We've used this in the past but it is not covered in rules format. Good point.

14:19:40 [MoeKraft]

Romain: Also assumption states html lang attribute is taken into account but it's actually not here.

14:19:56 [rdeltour]

s/Romain/Tobias/

14:20:14 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Good point. Let's not discuss rule too much.

14:20:22 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: Rule is good but needs work.

14:20:30 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, let's pass on this one.

14:20:43 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:20:43 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Rule meta-refresh https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC2-2-1+SC3-2-5-meta-refresh.html" taken up [from Wilco]

14:21:15 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Again, No to publish from Anne and team

14:21:29 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: What is the objection? Is it too straight forward?

14:21:52 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: I think this one is suitable

14:23:00 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Correction, there is no objection to publish this rule.

14:23:22 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: Do need to correct description. Not completely correct.

14:24:13 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Do we feel this is too straight forward or do this show the point efficiently?

14:24:43 [MoeKraft]

Stein Erik: I think it is good to be straight forward

14:25:02 [MoeKraft]

MoeKraft: This would need updating in the formatting to match specification.

14:25:10 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Yes. Any takers?

14:25:21 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: What are you asking?

14:25:42 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Before publishing these rules, they need to fit the draft rules format. There is some shuffling and renaming that needs to be done.

14:26:06 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: May need Accessibility Supported and Test cases to validate the rule with.

14:26:36 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: I can help out a little bit but might take me a bit longer.

14:26:53 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: Can you send me some details?

14:27:11 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: Can we edit in github?

14:27:17 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: I have a repository.

14:27:44 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: I don't mind where we do this. I will make sure to include it in the spec for publish.

14:27:52 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:27:52 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Rule: Autio-control https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html" taken up [from Wilco]

14:28:40 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We got no votes on this one. Do we want to take 5 minutes to read?

14:28:51 [MoeKraft]

https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-4-2-audio-control-audio.html

14:30:10 [rdeltour]

q+

14:32:31 [Kathy]

q+

14:33:03 [MoeKraft]

Romain: This rule is semi-automated. There are some user input questions. That is not described in our rules format.

14:33:22 [MoeKraft]

Romain: Should we describe this in the rules format for interactive steps?

14:33:35 [Kathy]

q-

14:33:38 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: This is really just one way of dealing with user questions.

14:33:42 [rdeltour]

ack rd

14:33:56 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: The rules format does not describe how you are supposed to do this.

14:34:04 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: I'm not sure.

14:34:45 [MoeKraft]

Romain: In beta, we state that the test mode for the rule itself but say nothing about the test steps.

14:35:03 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We used to do that in Auto WCAG but it's really obvious. They are easy to identify.

14:35:42 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Identifying whether automated, semi-automated or manual did not provide a lot of value. Do we need to talk further about user input?

14:35:52 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Let's add this to our issues list.

14:35:54 [rdeltour]

+1

14:37:04 [MoeKraft]

Romain: I think it is okay. Because the spec doesn't mandate this maybe one can word the step in their own way. We can wait for next release to further define.

14:37:43 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Good point. We are writing these rules in plain language so that they can be executed by QA and not necessarily automated.

14:38:43 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We can return to look at this again. Moe, create an issue on Github.

14:38:51 [MoeKraft]

q+

14:40:10 [MoeKraft]

Romain: There is inconsistency. Step 5 is confusing. It is checking for video.

14:40:18 [Kathy]

q+

14:40:33 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Agreed, need another branch. But I do like this rule. Shows creative approach of the rules format.

14:40:43 [Wilco]

ack moe

14:42:12 [Wilco]

ack k

14:42:31 [MoeKraft]

MoeKraft: The description contradicts itself. How about, "This test checks that any sound that plays automatically when a web page is loaded stops after 3 seconds or the web page provides a user control to turn off the sound."

14:42:47 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: Why are we restricting step 5 to just video?

14:43:39 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Not sure why step 5 says video. This was written awhile ago. If I can recall, I think we wanted to look at HTML5 technologies.

14:44:19 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Instead of using old technology like Flash or Silverlight. Are there any other ways of doing it?

14:44:34 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: Could just link to mp3 file

14:44:45 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: But that would need a different rule

14:45:07 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: so restricting only to audio and video elements. Why do we need a manual test for video?

14:45:31 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, I need to think about this more. I think step 5 should be "audio or video" element

14:46:16 [MoeKraft]

Kathy: Description of step 5 should be just "if audio is playing"

14:46:42 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: What do folks think about publishing this one?

14:46:57 [MoeKraft]

Tobias: I like it. It's quite clean from the longer rules.

14:47:18 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, I think it needs a bit of updating. Anyone who can update this in the coming week?

14:47:38 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, I will do it.

14:47:49 [MoeKraft]

zakim, take up next

14:47:49 [Zakim]

I do not see any more non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, MoeKraft

14:48:10 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Ok, so we have 3 rules. Let's try to get them done by end of week.

14:49:00 [MoeKraft]

MoeKraft: I can generate a new draft today.

14:49:00 [Skotkjerra]

q+

14:49:36 [MoeKraft]

MoeKraft: What about "test execution steps" issue?

14:49:46 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Do you think the changes are small enough to move in?

14:50:39 [MoeKraft]

MoeKraft: It is just updating terminology

14:51:11 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: We will send out a survey with the latest draft. Please put your comments in the survey.

14:51:17 [MoeKraft]

Wilco: Thank you very much!

14:51:40 [MoeKraft]

rrsagent, generate minutes

14:51:40 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/14-wcag-act-minutes.html MoeKraft

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