IRC log of apa on 2017-08-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:47:26 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #apa
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/09-apa-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 15:47:28 [Zakim]
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- Zakim, this will be
- 15:47:30 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 15:47:31 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
- 15:47:31 [trackbot]
- Date: 09 August 2017
- 15:49:00 [janina]
- agenda?
- 15:49:04 [janina]
- agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
- 15:49:04 [janina]
- agenda+ TPAC 2017 https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2017
- 15:49:04 [janina]
- agenda+ Task Force Checkins
- 15:49:04 [janina]
- agenda+ Push API Next Steps
- 15:49:05 [janina]
- agenda+ Input Events Redux
- 15:49:07 [janina]
- agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
- 15:49:09 [janina]
- agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
- 15:49:12 [janina]
- agenda+ Other Business
- 15:49:14 [janina]
- agenda+ next and future meetings
- 15:49:17 [janina]
- agenda+ be done
- 15:50:20 [janina]
- present+
- 15:50:27 [janina]
- chair: janina
- 16:01:23 [janina]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/notifications/
- 16:02:42 [joanie]
- present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
- 16:02:45 [MichielBijl]
- present+
- 16:03:21 [chaals-o]
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- 16:03:59 [IanPouncey]
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- present+
- 16:06:00 [MichaelC]
- present=
- 16:06:03 [MichaelC]
- present+
- 16:06:21 [MichielBijl]
- scribe: MichielBijl
- 16:06:38 [janina]
- zakim, next item
- 16:06:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
- 16:07:17 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Been asked to talk about ??
- 16:07:29 [MichielBijl]
- Chaals and Léonie are joining us fro that conversation
- 16:07:54 [MichielBijl]
- s/??/Push API/
- 16:08:54 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Any news?
- 16:09:08 [janina]
- zakim, next item
- 16:09:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "TPAC 2017 https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2017" taken up [from janina]
- 16:09:11 [MichielBijl]
- MB: Got a new job! Now at Funda in the Netherlands
- 16:09:27 [MichaelC]
- present+
- 16:10:06 [tink]
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- 16:10:13 [chaals1]
- present+
- 16:10:16 [tink]
- present+ Léonie
- 16:10:25 [janina]
- zakim, next item
- 16:10:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Task Force Checkins" taken up [from janina]
- 16:10:43 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Ian anything to update?
- 16:11:02 [MichielBijl]
- IP: Would like to ask for some time so I can work through most of the things
- 16:11:12 [MichielBijl]
- JS: You’re on
- 16:11:22 [MichielBijl]
- s/some time/some time next week/
- 16:11:41 [MichielBijl]
- IP: Want to provide some sort of update for the open issues
- 16:11:47 [MichielBijl]
- Do some prioritising
- 16:11:57 [MichielBijl]
- JS: That we’ll do
- 16:12:31 [MichielBijl]
- Any items from other task forces?
- 16:12:40 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Payments Taskforce?
- 16:12:49 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Haven’t heard anything, need to find Katy
- 16:12:56 [MichielBijl]
- s/Katy/Katie/
- 16:13:16 [MichielBijl]
- Did ask Judy about Katie sighting
- 16:13:37 [MichielBijl]
- She should slowly make her way back to W3C activities
- 16:14:08 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Just wanted to check that I didn’t miss anything because it’s still inactive
- 16:14:09 [MichielBijl]
- .
- 16:14:33 [janina]
- zakim, close this item
- 16:14:33 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 closed
- 16:14:34 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 16:14:34 [Zakim]
- 4. Push API Next Steps [from janina]
- 16:14:39 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 6
- 16:14:39 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina]
- 16:14:50 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 5
- 16:14:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Input Events Redux" taken up [from janina]
- 16:15:17 [MichielBijl]
- JS: PF before APA has had a long story with trying to get things right with input events
- 16:15:22 [MichielBijl]
- We have had a lot of comments
- 16:15:24 [chaals1]
- [Note that it is generally a good idea to talk to Johannes Wilm directly whenever discussing this topic]
- 16:15:31 [MichielBijl]
- Some have been accepted
- 16:15:40 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Input_Events_Level_2
- 16:15:46 [janina]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2017Mar/0013.html
- 16:16:03 [MichielBijl]
- ^ Questions we need to respond to
- 16:16:16 [MichielBijl]
- Not sure how to describe where we are with this
- 16:16:36 [MichielBijl]
- Anyone they feel they can summarise this?
- 16:17:38 [MichielBijl]
- We’re leaving this hanging, and would like to come to a resolution on it
- 16:18:44 [chaals1]
- The editing TF generally meets once per month, last one yesterday but it was postponed.
- 16:19:04 [MichielBijl]
- LW: The Editing TF might be a good place to start
- 16:19:06 [chaals1]
- s/editing/webPlat editing APIs/
- 16:19:17 [janina]
- Chls, do you know when exactly Editing TF meets? Day? Hour?
- 16:19:34 [chaals1]
- q+ to talk about their first question
- 16:20:21 [MichielBijl]
- CN: Their first question is about how an AT gets a notification of an input event
- 16:20:30 [MichielBijl]
- I think we need to discuss that with them
- 16:20:39 [MichielBijl]
- Not sure where the AT is listening for that
- 16:20:58 [MichielBijl]
- The app that’s running picks that up and resets the event and fire its own
- 16:21:06 [MichielBijl]
- You would need to be able to chain from the app
- 16:21:18 [MichielBijl]
- This is about clarifying what changes need to be made
- 16:21:25 [MichielBijl]
- Work on use cases
- 16:21:44 [MichielBijl]
- “Where are they getting the input event”
- 16:22:05 [MichielBijl]
- s/event/event?/
- 16:22:14 [chaals1]
- [I assume it is platform-specific - and may also depend on applications]
- 16:22:15 [MichielBijl]
- JD: Might depend on the platform
- 16:22:41 [MichielBijl]
- I’m getting it from the application, but not sure what happens on the Mac
- 16:23:04 [MichielBijl]
- It would be a platform specific question you might ask?
- 16:23:15 [MichielBijl]
- CN: Absolutely a platform-specific question
- 16:23:25 [MichielBijl]
- Is there an issue for this?
- 16:23:40 [MichielBijl]
- Can I ask someone in APA to file one if not so we can track it?
- 16:24:02 [MichielBijl]
- JS: We can file an issue as I’m not sure we have one right now
- 16:24:07 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Is this an AAM issue?
- 16:24:13 [MichielBijl]
- JD: Not sure it is
- 16:24:49 [MichielBijl]
- CN: At this stage it’s not clear it should be in the API mappings
- 16:25:25 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:25:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/09-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
- 16:25:43 [MichielBijl]
- ...
- 16:25:49 [MichielBijl]
- Check it’s being done
- 16:26:12 [MichielBijl]
- JS: I think that’s reasonable
- 16:26:56 [MichielBijl]
- CN: Issue is to ensure that the way input events are implemented and used that AT gets the message at the right moment
- 16:27:16 [MichielBijl]
- JS: How do the different platforms do it?
- 16:28:05 [MichaelC]
- action: janina to file issue with input events about AT getting message properly
- 16:28:05 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2139 - File issue with input events about at getting message properly [on Janina Sajka - due 2017-08-16].
- 16:28:12 [MichaelC]
- action-2139?
- 16:28:12 [trackbot]
- action-2139 -- Janina Sajka to File issue with input events about at getting message properly -- due 2017-08-16 -- OPEN
- 16:28:12 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2139
- 16:28:17 [chaals1]
- [There are at least a couple of editing frameworks that have done a lot of work on accessibility and probably have some insight]
- 16:28:20 [MichielBijl]
- Anything else on input events we want to discuss?
- 16:28:29 [MichielBijl]
- MC: There’s still a pending action on it
- 16:28:37 [MichielBijl]
- I know you have two anyways
- 16:28:48 [MichaelC]
- action-2139: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Input_Events_Level_2
- 16:28:48 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-2139 File issue with input events about at getting message properly.
- 16:28:55 [janina]
- zakim, close this item
- 16:28:55 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
- 16:28:57 [MichaelC]
- action-2139: see also action-2124
- 16:28:57 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-2139 File issue with input events about at getting message properly.
- 16:28:59 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 4
- 16:28:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Push API Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
- 16:29:01 [MichaelC]
- action-2124: see also action-2139
- 16:29:01 [trackbot]
- Notes added to action-2124 Follow up with johannes wilm on input events 1 and 2 wrt our comments on input events non-leveled.
- 16:29:34 [MichielBijl]
- JS: We’re developing use cases that we’re starting to talk about on the Do Not Disturb level
- 16:29:40 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:29:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/09-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
- 16:30:05 [MichielBijl]
- We got a use case from Ted Drake for a list of situation where you want to use DND
- 16:31:29 [MichielBijl]
- Have recently compared W3C Notification API with the WHATWG one
- 16:31:46 [MichielBijl]
- Have also filed an issue against WHATWG’s spec
- 16:32:35 [chaals1]
- q+ to ask about the differences in detail
- 16:33:15 [janina]
- q?
- 16:33:20 [janina]
- ack c
- 16:33:20 [Zakim]
- chaals, you wanted to talk about their first question and to ask about the differences in detail
- 16:34:21 [chaals1]
- CMN: Are there other significant differences besidess the accessibility stuff? What are the accessibility statements that are different?
- 16:34:35 [MichielBijl]
- s/Have also filed an issue against WHATWG’s spec//
- 16:34:40 [janina]
- https://notifications.spec.whatwg.org/
- 16:34:47 [MichaelC]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Notifications_API
- 16:35:37 [chaals1]
- ... one way to proceed would be to clearly request the Push spec to reference the W3C notification spec as the reference to use, explicitly because accessibility may otherwise be compromised...
- 16:35:44 [janina]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/notifications/
- 16:35:59 [janina]
- Diff indicates W3C has Sec 2.1 not in WHAT
- 16:36:04 [MichielBijl]
- LW: Is there any activity in the W3C Notification WG?
- 16:36:17 [janina]
- Also last paragraph of W3C Sec. 4 has been watered down by WHAT
- 16:36:18 [MichielBijl]
- MC: No
- 16:36:52 [tink]
- s/LW: Is there any activity in the W3C Notification WG?/LW: The W3C Web Notifications spec went to Rec in 2015 and the WG closed/
- 16:38:33 [chaals1]
- q+
- 16:38:51 [MichielBijl]
- MC: It’s going to be hard for us to do a HTML diff
- 16:39:05 [MichielBijl]
- JS: So what’s the useful way to proceed on this
- 16:40:09 [MichielBijl]
- s/CN:/CMN:/g
- 16:40:31 [MichielBijl]
- CMN: *breaking up*
- 16:40:54 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Anyone willing to do a comparison?
- 16:41:09 [MichielBijl]
- LW: Not sure what we’re trying to accomplish by doing a diff
- 16:41:58 [chaals1]
- [No point doing an automatic diff, because the specs are different. A parallel analysis by a human would show what the significant differences are...]
- 16:42:57 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Our ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility API
- 16:43:08 [chaals1]
- [... If it's only accessibility they can refer to W3C. Otherwise they can refer to the accessibility guidance in addition to the wwg push spec.]]
- 16:43:09 [MichielBijl]
- Push API told us to go to Notification API
- 16:43:46 [tink]
- s/ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility API/ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility problem/
- 16:44:50 [MichielBijl]
- LW: Not sure we can do anything about a non-W3C spec ;)
- 16:45:26 [MichielBijl]
- Depending on the W3C Notification spec is not much help either as the WG has closed
- 16:47:00 [MichielBijl]
- Would suggest filing an issue on the WHATWG spec
- 16:47:58 [MichielBijl]
- MC: A PR would be even better
- 16:48:22 [MichielBijl]
- LW: Might also be worth suggesting the idea of a DND feature to the Push API editors too.
- 16:50:25 [MichielBijl]
- *scribe without audio*
- 16:51:20 [MichielBijl]
- MC: The language we request be added to the Push API spec
- 16:51:34 [MichielBijl]
- s/Push/Notification/
- 16:51:52 [chaals1]
- [as a starting point, request PushAPI to add a note in their informative reference to Notifications, adding
- 16:52:22 [MichielBijl]
- JS: I can start the plain English version
- 16:52:28 [MichielBijl]
- If someone can help me with the code
- 16:52:32 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Yes, I can do that
- 16:52:41 [MichielBijl]
- If you can look at where in the doc it needs to go
- 16:52:44 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Sounds good
- 16:52:58 [MichielBijl]
- Michael, any new specs?
- 16:52:59 [janina]
- zakim, take up item 7
- 16:52:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
- 16:53:12 [chaals1]
- "Please note that for accessibility reasons, sections X and Y of w3c notifications should be taken into account by implementations"...
- 16:53:30 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Want to bring up WebVVT
- 16:53:41 [MichielBijl]
- There’s now an active request for a review
- 16:54:04 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/webvtt1/ WebVTT: The Web Video Text Tracks Format
- 16:55:03 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/credential-management-1/ Credential Management Level 1
- 16:55:18 [MichielBijl]
- MC: reviewed it a while ago
- 16:55:24 [MichielBijl]
- Decided to go back to it
- 16:55:43 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Who did it before?
- 16:55:45 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Fred
- 16:57:28 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/ Verifiable Claims Data Model and Representations
- 16:57:56 [MichielBijl]
- > Driver's licenses are used to claim that we are capable of operating a motor vehicle, university degrees can be used to claim our education status, and government-issued passports enable holders to travel between countries. This specification provides a standard way to express these sorts of claims on the Web in a way that is cryptographically secure, privacy respecting, and automatically verifiable.
- 16:59:12 [MichielBijl]
- MC: My gut tells me we don’t have to worry about this
- 16:59:17 [MichielBijl]
- JS: Might be some UI
- 16:59:26 [MichielBijl]
- MC: Not sure how this would impact us
- 16:59:32 [MichielBijl]
- Mostly data models
- 17:00:03 [MichielBijl]
- That’s it for TR then
- 17:00:54 [MichielBijl]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/09-apa-minutes.html MichielBijl
- 17:02:26 [MichielBijl]
- sg/CN:/CMN:/
- 17:02:29 [MichielBijl]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:02:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/09-apa-minutes.html MichielBijl
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