IRC log of apa on 2017-08-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:47:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:47:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:47:28 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be
15:47:30 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:47:31 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:47:31 [trackbot]
Date: 09 August 2017
15:49:00 [janina]
15:49:04 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
15:49:04 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC 2017
15:49:04 [janina]
agenda+ Task Force Checkins
15:49:04 [janina]
agenda+ Push API Next Steps
15:49:05 [janina]
agenda+ Input Events Redux
15:49:07 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs)
15:49:09 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR
15:49:12 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
15:49:14 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings
15:49:17 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:50:20 [janina]
15:50:27 [janina]
chair: janina
16:01:23 [janina]
16:02:42 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:02:45 [MichielBijl]
16:03:21 [chaals-o]
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16:05:08 [IanPouncey]
16:06:00 [MichaelC]
16:06:03 [MichaelC]
16:06:21 [MichielBijl]
scribe: MichielBijl
16:06:38 [janina]
zakim, next item
16:06:38 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:07:17 [MichielBijl]
JS: Been asked to talk about ??
16:07:29 [MichielBijl]
Chaals and Léonie are joining us fro that conversation
16:07:54 [MichielBijl]
s/??/Push API/
16:08:54 [MichielBijl]
JS: Any news?
16:09:08 [janina]
zakim, next item
16:09:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "TPAC 2017" taken up [from janina]
16:09:11 [MichielBijl]
MB: Got a new job! Now at Funda in the Netherlands
16:09:27 [MichaelC]
16:10:06 [tink]
tink has joined #apa
16:10:13 [chaals1]
16:10:16 [tink]
present+ Léonie
16:10:25 [janina]
zakim, next item
16:10:25 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Task Force Checkins" taken up [from janina]
16:10:43 [MichielBijl]
JS: Ian anything to update?
16:11:02 [MichielBijl]
IP: Would like to ask for some time so I can work through most of the things
16:11:12 [MichielBijl]
JS: You’re on
16:11:22 [MichielBijl]
s/some time/some time next week/
16:11:41 [MichielBijl]
IP: Want to provide some sort of update for the open issues
16:11:47 [MichielBijl]
Do some prioritising
16:11:57 [MichielBijl]
JS: That we’ll do
16:12:31 [MichielBijl]
Any items from other task forces?
16:12:40 [MichielBijl]
MC: Payments Taskforce?
16:12:49 [MichielBijl]
JS: Haven’t heard anything, need to find Katy
16:12:56 [MichielBijl]
16:13:16 [MichielBijl]
Did ask Judy about Katie sighting
16:13:37 [MichielBijl]
She should slowly make her way back to W3C activities
16:14:08 [MichielBijl]
MC: Just wanted to check that I didn’t miss anything because it’s still inactive
16:14:09 [MichielBijl]
16:14:33 [janina]
zakim, close this item
16:14:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
16:14:34 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:14:34 [Zakim]
4. Push API Next Steps [from janina]
16:14:39 [janina]
zakim, take up item 6
16:14:39 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Actions Checkin (Specs)" taken up [from janina]
16:14:50 [janina]
zakim, take up item 5
16:14:50 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Input Events Redux" taken up [from janina]
16:15:17 [MichielBijl]
JS: PF before APA has had a long story with trying to get things right with input events
16:15:22 [MichielBijl]
We have had a lot of comments
16:15:24 [chaals1]
[Note that it is generally a good idea to talk to Johannes Wilm directly whenever discussing this topic]
16:15:31 [MichielBijl]
Some have been accepted
16:15:40 [MichaelC]
16:15:46 [janina]
16:16:03 [MichielBijl]
^ Questions we need to respond to
16:16:16 [MichielBijl]
Not sure how to describe where we are with this
16:16:36 [MichielBijl]
Anyone they feel they can summarise this?
16:17:38 [MichielBijl]
We’re leaving this hanging, and would like to come to a resolution on it
16:18:44 [chaals1]
The editing TF generally meets once per month, last one yesterday but it was postponed.
16:19:04 [MichielBijl]
LW: The Editing TF might be a good place to start
16:19:06 [chaals1]
s/editing/webPlat editing APIs/
16:19:17 [janina]
Chls, do you know when exactly Editing TF meets? Day? Hour?
16:19:34 [chaals1]
q+ to talk about their first question
16:20:21 [MichielBijl]
CN: Their first question is about how an AT gets a notification of an input event
16:20:30 [MichielBijl]
I think we need to discuss that with them
16:20:39 [MichielBijl]
Not sure where the AT is listening for that
16:20:58 [MichielBijl]
The app that’s running picks that up and resets the event and fire its own
16:21:06 [MichielBijl]
You would need to be able to chain from the app
16:21:18 [MichielBijl]
This is about clarifying what changes need to be made
16:21:25 [MichielBijl]
Work on use cases
16:21:44 [MichielBijl]
“Where are they getting the input event”
16:22:05 [MichielBijl]
16:22:14 [chaals1]
[I assume it is platform-specific - and may also depend on applications]
16:22:15 [MichielBijl]
JD: Might depend on the platform
16:22:41 [MichielBijl]
I’m getting it from the application, but not sure what happens on the Mac
16:23:04 [MichielBijl]
It would be a platform specific question you might ask?
16:23:15 [MichielBijl]
CN: Absolutely a platform-specific question
16:23:25 [MichielBijl]
Is there an issue for this?
16:23:40 [MichielBijl]
Can I ask someone in APA to file one if not so we can track it?
16:24:02 [MichielBijl]
JS: We can file an issue as I’m not sure we have one right now
16:24:07 [MichielBijl]
MC: Is this an AAM issue?
16:24:13 [MichielBijl]
JD: Not sure it is
16:24:49 [MichielBijl]
CN: At this stage it’s not clear it should be in the API mappings
16:25:25 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:25:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichaelC
16:25:43 [MichielBijl]
16:25:49 [MichielBijl]
Check it’s being done
16:26:12 [MichielBijl]
JS: I think that’s reasonable
16:26:56 [MichielBijl]
CN: Issue is to ensure that the way input events are implemented and used that AT gets the message at the right moment
16:27:16 [MichielBijl]
JS: How do the different platforms do it?
16:28:05 [MichaelC]
action: janina to file issue with input events about AT getting message properly
16:28:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2139 - File issue with input events about at getting message properly [on Janina Sajka - due 2017-08-16].
16:28:12 [MichaelC]
16:28:12 [trackbot]
action-2139 -- Janina Sajka to File issue with input events about at getting message properly -- due 2017-08-16 -- OPEN
16:28:12 [trackbot]
16:28:17 [chaals1]
[There are at least a couple of editing frameworks that have done a lot of work on accessibility and probably have some insight]
16:28:20 [MichielBijl]
Anything else on input events we want to discuss?
16:28:29 [MichielBijl]
MC: There’s still a pending action on it
16:28:37 [MichielBijl]
I know you have two anyways
16:28:48 [MichaelC]
16:28:48 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-2139 File issue with input events about at getting message properly.
16:28:55 [janina]
zakim, close this item
16:28:55 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
16:28:57 [MichaelC]
action-2139: see also action-2124
16:28:57 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-2139 File issue with input events about at getting message properly.
16:28:59 [janina]
zakim, take up item 4
16:28:59 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Push API Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
16:29:01 [MichaelC]
action-2124: see also action-2139
16:29:01 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-2124 Follow up with johannes wilm on input events 1 and 2 wrt our comments on input events non-leveled.
16:29:34 [MichielBijl]
JS: We’re developing use cases that we’re starting to talk about on the Do Not Disturb level
16:29:40 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichaelC
16:30:05 [MichielBijl]
We got a use case from Ted Drake for a list of situation where you want to use DND
16:31:29 [MichielBijl]
Have recently compared W3C Notification API with the WHATWG one
16:31:46 [MichielBijl]
Have also filed an issue against WHATWG’s spec
16:32:35 [chaals1]
q+ to ask about the differences in detail
16:33:15 [janina]
16:33:20 [janina]
ack c
16:33:20 [Zakim]
chaals, you wanted to talk about their first question and to ask about the differences in detail
16:34:21 [chaals1]
CMN: Are there other significant differences besidess the accessibility stuff? What are the accessibility statements that are different?
16:34:35 [MichielBijl]
s/Have also filed an issue against WHATWG’s spec//
16:34:40 [janina]
16:34:47 [MichaelC]
16:35:37 [chaals1]
... one way to proceed would be to clearly request the Push spec to reference the W3C notification spec as the reference to use, explicitly because accessibility may otherwise be compromised...
16:35:44 [janina]
16:35:59 [janina]
Diff indicates W3C has Sec 2.1 not in WHAT
16:36:04 [MichielBijl]
LW: Is there any activity in the W3C Notification WG?
16:36:17 [janina]
Also last paragraph of W3C Sec. 4 has been watered down by WHAT
16:36:18 [MichielBijl]
MC: No
16:36:52 [tink]
s/LW: Is there any activity in the W3C Notification WG?/LW: The W3C Web Notifications spec went to Rec in 2015 and the WG closed/  
16:38:33 [chaals1]
16:38:51 [MichielBijl]
MC: It’s going to be hard for us to do a HTML diff
16:39:05 [MichielBijl]
JS: So what’s the useful way to proceed on this
16:40:09 [MichielBijl]
16:40:31 [MichielBijl]
CMN: *breaking up*
16:40:54 [MichielBijl]
JS: Anyone willing to do a comparison?
16:41:09 [MichielBijl]
LW: Not sure what we’re trying to accomplish by doing a diff
16:41:58 [chaals1]
[No point doing an automatic diff, because the specs are different. A parallel analysis by a human would show what the significant differences are...]
16:42:57 [MichielBijl]
MC: Our ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility API
16:43:08 [chaals1]
[... If it's only accessibility they can refer to W3C. Otherwise they can refer to the accessibility guidance in addition to the wwg push spec.]]
16:43:09 [MichielBijl]
Push API told us to go to Notification API
16:43:46 [tink]
s/ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility API/ultimate issue is that push API does something that creates an accessibility problem/  
16:44:50 [MichielBijl]
LW: Not sure we can do anything about a non-W3C spec ;)
16:45:26 [MichielBijl]
Depending on the W3C Notification spec is not much help either as the WG has closed
16:47:00 [MichielBijl]
Would suggest filing an issue on the WHATWG spec
16:47:58 [MichielBijl]
MC: A PR would be even better
16:48:22 [MichielBijl]
LW: Might also be worth suggesting the idea of a DND feature to the Push API editors too.
16:50:25 [MichielBijl]
*scribe without audio*
16:51:20 [MichielBijl]
MC: The language we request be added to the Push API spec
16:51:34 [MichielBijl]
16:51:52 [chaals1]
[as a starting point, request PushAPI to add a note in their informative reference to Notifications, adding
16:52:22 [MichielBijl]
JS: I can start the plain English version
16:52:28 [MichielBijl]
If someone can help me with the code
16:52:32 [MichielBijl]
MC: Yes, I can do that
16:52:41 [MichielBijl]
If you can look at where in the doc it needs to go
16:52:44 [MichielBijl]
JS: Sounds good
16:52:58 [MichielBijl]
Michael, any new specs?
16:52:59 [janina]
zakim, take up item 7
16:52:59 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "new on TR" taken up [from janina]
16:53:12 [chaals1]
"Please note that for accessibility reasons, sections X and Y of w3c notifications should be taken into account by implementations"...
16:53:30 [MichielBijl]
MC: Want to bring up WebVVT
16:53:41 [MichielBijl]
There’s now an active request for a review
16:54:04 [MichaelC]
-> WebVTT: The Web Video Text Tracks Format
16:55:03 [MichaelC]
-> Credential Management Level 1
16:55:18 [MichielBijl]
MC: reviewed it a while ago
16:55:24 [MichielBijl]
Decided to go back to it
16:55:43 [MichielBijl]
JS: Who did it before?
16:55:45 [MichielBijl]
MC: Fred
16:57:28 [MichaelC]
-> Verifiable Claims Data Model and Representations
16:57:56 [MichielBijl]
> Driver's licenses are used to claim that we are capable of operating a motor vehicle, university degrees can be used to claim our education status, and government-issued passports enable holders to travel between countries. This specification provides a standard way to express these sorts of claims on the Web in a way that is cryptographically secure, privacy respecting, and automatically verifiable.
16:59:12 [MichielBijl]
MC: My gut tells me we don’t have to worry about this
16:59:17 [MichielBijl]
JS: Might be some UI
16:59:26 [MichielBijl]
MC: Not sure how this would impact us
16:59:32 [MichielBijl]
Mostly data models
17:00:03 [MichielBijl]
That’s it for TR then
17:00:54 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:00:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichielBijl
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17:02:29 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:02:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MichielBijl
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