12:13:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
12:13:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/07-poe-irc
12:13:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:13:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:13:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:13:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
12:13:32 <trackbot> Date: 07 August 2017
12:14:00 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170807
12:14:11 <ivan> Regrets: Caroline
12:20:17 <renato> Chair: Ben
12:20:22 <renato> present+
12:24:38 <ivan> present+
12:30:12 <benws_> benws_ has joined #poe
12:30:26 <benws_> present+
12:31:25 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:31:42 <Serena> Serena has joined #poe
12:32:05 <michaelS> present+
12:33:42 <Serena> present+
12:34:36 <victor> victor has joined #poe
12:34:36 <victor> hi
12:35:03 <michaelS> scribe: michaelS
12:35:09 <michaelS> scribenick: michaelS
12:35:18 <michaelS> topic: last meetings minutes
12:35:32 <michaelS> resolution: last week's minutes were accepted
12:35:55 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/projects/1
12:35:57 <michaelS> Topic: Editor's drafts
12:37:24 <michaelS> renato: he has worked on all the open issues
12:37:40 <Linda_B> Linda_B has joined #POE
12:37:49 <michaelS> ... and worked on the two major issues: remedy and making profiles mandatory
12:38:07 <ivan> q+
12:38:13 <michaelS> ... The IM and Vocab draft of 3 August cover all these issues.
12:38:37 <michaelS> ben: Both look good
12:38:47 <michaelS> renato: no feedback from anybody yet
12:38:57 <victor> present+
12:39:39 <michaelS> ben: do these document cover all raised issues of the past 2 years?
12:39:48 <michaelS> renato: yes
12:39:56 <ivan> ack ivan
12:40:38 <michaelS> ivan: who propose the "proposed solutions"?
12:41:22 <michaelS> renato: first an issue is discussed then the editor changes the document and if a major change
12:41:52 <michaelS> ... is included this change is communicated to the WG.
12:42:10 <michaelS> ivan: we have a few "to be closed" issues
12:42:44 <ivan> present+ Linda_B
12:43:24 <michaelS> renato: suggested to give the people from the WG a period until the end of this week to review the two documents
12:43:26 <ivan> q+
12:43:37 <michaelS> victor: asked to extend this to 2 weeks?
12:43:51 <ivan> ack victor
12:44:32 <michaelS> ivan: these documents must go the the Candidate Recommendation state at the start of September.
12:44:54 <michaelS> ... this makes him concerned to keep the editing open for 2 weeks.
12:46:00 <michaelS> ... what we should decide today: we declare an absolute feature freeze not and correct only typing errors.
12:46:11 <michaelS> s/not/now
12:47:06 <michaelS> ben: underlined: not substantial changes anymore - minor corrections only
12:48:18 <benws_> q?
12:48:26 <benws_> ack i
12:48:33 <michaelS> benws_: The situation of the Information Model document is quite clear - any comments?
12:48:49 <michaelS> (no comments were raised)
12:49:17 <michaelS> renato: on the Vocabulary document: updated the XML and the JSON-LD
12:49:39 <michaelS> benws_: any bigger changes to XML?
12:50:04 <michaelS> renato: attributes were added and some elements (e.g. consequence) - no major changes
12:50:37 <victor> UPM will only work with RDF exclusively
12:51:03 <Serena> same for INRIA
12:51:21 <benws_> same for TR ...
12:51:22 <michaelS> benws_: Who has implemented XML - AP?
12:51:33 <michaelS> michaelS: could be the case.
12:52:08 <michaelS> renato: could we vote on the Editor's Draft next week?
12:52:38 <ivan> Proposed: Provided the outstanding 5 issues under the "proposed solution" column in the github project are accepted, the group accepts the model/vocab documents as Candidate Recommendation. Deadline is one week from now, ie, 14th of August.
12:53:01 <michaelS> ivan: could we vote on the proposed things today?
12:53:07 <victor> as a last comment... is it still ok if I send during the day an alternative model for the "consequence"? Comparing this to deontic logical frameworks, I find having that the consequence of not fullfilling a Duty can by not means be other Duty.
12:53:28 <victor> if deadline is one week, then it should be ok
12:54:09 <michaelS> benws_: supports victor's comment
12:55:13 <michaelS> victor: will share his comments early this week - to be discussed by the WG
12:55:31 <michaelS> topic: Test Cases
12:56:09 <michaelS> benws_: this is his issue, just returned from holiday but will work on that this week
12:56:18 <ivan> q+
12:56:32 <renato> q+
12:56:53 <michaelS> ... will share a proposal to get it discussed by the WG next Monday
12:57:22 <michaelS> ivan: what do we have in terms of test environment?
12:57:59 <michaelS> benws_: agreed - this is not absolutely clear.
12:58:21 <michaelS> ... has to check how this sections has to be rewrited.
12:58:42 <michaelS> ... will write down evaluation criteria
12:59:00 <michaelS> s/rewrited/rewritten
12:59:15 <michaelS> iv
12:59:56 <victor> the trick is the meaning of "understand"
13:00:08 <michaelS> ivan: the (W3C) director will ask: are there tests regarding interoperability
13:00:31 <victor> agree with ben, "understand=pass test"
13:00:54 <michaelS> benws_: basic issues will be covered but will not go deep into details.
13:01:17 <michaelS> ... this is covered by the concept of Profiles - and they will not be tested.
13:02:26 <michaelS> renato: we need to cover the potential different views by creators and consumers of Policies?
13:02:31 <michaelS> ivan: yes
13:04:26 <benws_> q?
13:04:27 <michaelS> ... he would like to see that a party creates Policies and e.g. Thomson Reuters has to understand them in a real case.
13:04:40 <benws_> ack i
13:05:07 <michaelS> benws_: this evaluation should be domain independent?
13:05:10 <michaelS> ivan: yes
13:06:26 <michaelS> benws_: aims at creating truth tables - and an evalutation does not need to fully understand all details.
13:06:36 <michaelS> s/evaluation/evaluator
13:08:28 <victor> +1
13:08:59 <michaelS> benws_: an evaluator will only check what is defined by the IM and a profile but will not cover all possible options - is this approach ok?
13:09:20 <michaelS> ivan: would prefer to see that in writing to review it
13:09:42 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/test/cr-exit.md
13:10:33 <michaelS> benws_: asked renato to add to the exit criteria what has been changed/added recently.
13:12:13 <michaelS> ivan: a goal is that each feature will be used by two cases
13:13:29 <michaelS> ... and the policy should be generated by a different party than the one receiving and evaluating the policy
13:14:13 <michaelS> benws_: we should be careful that Profiles will be different for different business areas - will we have so many parties?
13:14:44 <benws_> q?
13:14:56 <renato> q-
13:15:29 <michaelS> ... an issue is: the Core Profile covers only very few terms, e.g. Actions. A Policy without a Profile will not be close to reality.
13:15:53 <victor> i fully agree with Ivan: the more diverse the sources of policies, the richer the testing will be
13:16:30 <michaelS> ivan: clarified: the cross-testing should be done by the end of the CR phase.
13:17:18 <michaelS> Topic: List of potential implementers
13:17:33 <michaelS> benws_: the current list is empty
13:17:43 <michaelS> https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/test/implementors.md
13:18:34 <michaelS> ivan: we should divide between receivers and creators of Policies
13:18:51 <michaelS> benws_: do implementors have to be W3C members?
13:18:53 <michaelS> ivan: no
13:19:04 <Serena> +1
13:19:38 <michaelS> benws_: suggested to name them publishers and implementors
13:20:02 <renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/model/#odre
13:20:46 <michaelS> renato: should this be rewritten?
13:20:57 <michaelS> topic: Update on NOTEs
13:21:58 <michaelS> victor: we have some documents which could be moved into NOTEs - any time limit?
13:22:46 <michaelS> ivan: no, NOTES could be published at the end of the WG work - could be in February. Suggested to set a time limit to early December.
13:23:41 <michaelS> benws_: RightsML Profile?
13:24:01 <victor> I would be happy to see these policies, in any case
13:24:23 <michaelS> michaelS: IPTC plans to work on that from September on.
13:24:47 <michaelS> Topic: Open Actions
13:25:17 <michaelS> renato: we need a PHP programer for some features of creating the vocabulary
13:27:38 <michaelS> benws_: went over the Open Actions list
13:28:13 <michaelS> benws_: Action-44 can be closed?
13:28:18 <michaelS> renato: agreed to closing it
13:28:42 <victor> thanks! Hear you by then!
13:28:50 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:28:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/07-poe-minutes.html ivan
13:28:56 <Serena> Serena has left #poe
13:28:57 <michaelS> michaelS: regret for next call
13:29:00 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:29:00 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:29:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been renato, ivan, benws_, michaelS, Serena, victor, Linda_B
13:29:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:29:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/07-poe-minutes.html trackbot
13:29:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:29:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items