15:11:13 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:11:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-hcls-irc 15:11:15 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:11:15 Zakim has joined #hcls 15:11:17 Zakim, this will be HCLS 15:11:17 ok, trackbot 15:11:18 Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference 15:11:18 Date: 01 August 2017 15:11:36 Topic: FHIR Metadata Vocabulary - fhir.ttl 15:12:06 harold: Got permission from grahame and submitted a bunch of bug fixes. 15:12:32 ... We have a couple more edge case issues. Need to discuss them with grahame. 15:12:49 ... And a major issue that we need to discuss w grahame, about how he's gen datatypes. 15:13:21 ... It includes types of gYear gYearMonth gDate 15:13:42 ... When he generates the turtle he uses those types to establish the precision of the datetime field. 15:14:06 ... But the only datetime that OWL deals with is datetime. It can do < and > comparisons. 15:14:22 s/It/OWL/ 15:14:35 ... Reasoners get upset if they encounter gDate. 15:16:59 ... It's a combination of the FHIR metadata vocab. Reasoner burps when I say that something is an rdf restriction on datatype xsd:gDate. 15:17:17 s/gDate/gYear/ 15:17:48 ... Only allowed to use xsd:datetime there. 15:18:17 ... We use those additional types to describe the precision of the dates that we found in the json, from parsing the json. 15:19:08 ISSUE: How to handle gYear gYearMonth etc as dateTime in OWL 15:19:08 Created ISSUE-44 - How to handle gyear gyearmonth etc as datetime in owl. Please complete additional details at . 15:20:04 harold: Another issue: FHIR requires clever JSON parsers -- problem for anyone who is not coding in java. 15:21:19 ... Look at the note in this page about using a custom parser: http://build.fhir.org/json.html 15:21:45 ... and a bignum library. That's all good in the java world, but they're essentially extending the json world for FHIR. 15:21:51 ... That carries over into RDF. 15:22:41 eric: I think SPARQL can treat the different numbers differently, until you compare them. 15:23:57 harold: if you're using a native RDF lib, and you know that 2 is different from 2.0 there is a way to use strings to stop RDF lib from treating it as a number. 15:24:51 ... Cannot simultaneously preserve precision and do sensible comparisons. 15:25:22 ... RDF spec says that if you want to preserve precision, then make yourself a bnode and put in the precision. 15:26:50 dbooth: and we already have fhir:value with a bnode that could be used. 15:28:40 harold: I'm thinking that we should push back on the FHIR-extended JSON. 15:29:28 ... We could say that 'we don't handle the fhir precision, so the following conversions will fail ..." 15:30:03 eric: XML happens to be pretty good at this. Nobody said you shouldn't do it this way. No special functionality that deals with precision. 15:30:50 harold: But if you take jaxb, it will take the xsd:decimal and turn it into a java double. It won't address that use case. 15:31:06 ... The XML-to-python tool that I use will do the same thing. 15:32:13 dbooth: It was asserted early on that precision was used in lab values. 15:33:41 Topic: Introductions 15:34:23 luis: Luis Marco 15:34:45 Topic: FHIR JSON datatypes 15:35:25 harold: I wrote another converter that is unaware of precision, and I have not found a precision issue anywhere except in money. 15:37:09 eric: Frequently in clinical informatics, in lab results people want to keep precision. 15:37:32 ... Another is a researcher trying to pull significant digits from results, but they never trust them anyway. 15:38:12 ... So it seems like the use cases where precision is actually represented in a decimal are vanishingly rare. Have you seen anything else? 15:39:07 dbooth: FHIR has an 80/20 mantra, so if we can provide data to back up the assertion that precision is not used in practice, then maybe the decision could be changed. 15:39:38 harold: An accident waiting to happen as is. Could use an extension to preserve precision if you care about it. 15:39:54 eric: Want to avoid building a complex object for numerics. 15:40:22 luis: https://hangouts.google.com/_/elUi/chat-redirect?dest=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openehr.org%2Freleases%2FRM%2Flatest%2Fdocs%2Fdata_types%2Fdata_types.html%23_dv_quantity_class 15:41:08 Topic: OWL for codesystems 15:41:14 harold: https://hangouts.google.com/_/elUi/chat-redirect?dest=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fhcls-fhir-rdf%2Ftree%2Fgh-pages%2Ffhirowl 15:41:38 ... Rob Hausam need to discuss next steps. Should it be part of the distro, or a service? 15:42:25 dbooth: previous discussion about this: https://www.w3.org/2017/07/11-hcls-minutes.html#item02 15:44:02 harold: (looking at fhir diagnostic-report-status codes in OWL) 15:44:13 ... Is this what the OWL should look like? 15:45:09 ... We now have two possible rrepresentations of these codesystems. We have a spec that says how to generate an RDF representation of a diagnositic report, and it isn't this one. 15:45:28 ... That's why I have .owl as the file extension instead of .ttl 15:45:38 ... Should it be part of the FHIR distro? 15:46:16 ... Also, in the v3 area, I don't think I'm generating the same URIs as Lloyd did. Should they be the same? 15:47:24 ... I.e., in the OWL rendering of the ORIM that Lloyd did a few years ago. 15:48:00 ... I'm currently awaiting advice from Rob Hausam and the terminology group. 15:53:13 dbooth: What downside of including this with the FHIR spec? 15:53:19 harold: don't know. 15:53:33 ... But Rob's group needs to take the lead on that. 15:54:22 ... Grahame's terminology server implememtation is now complete in its RDF support. 15:55:17 ACTION: Rob Hausam to discuss with term group about publishing OWL vocabularies for codesystems 15:55:17 Created ACTION-90 - Hausam to discuss with term group about publishing owl vocabularies for codesystems [on Rob Frost - due 2017-08-08]. 15:56:07 Topic: OWL header in ttl file 15:56:27 harold: grahame doesn't want the ontology header, but I explained the grief that it causes if it isn't in there. 15:57:09 ... I'd like to propose that we change the version URI to match the official FHIR model. 15:57:43 ... I think the version URI should match the history versioning of FHIR itself. 15:58:07 dbooth: Makes sense. 16:00:24 ADJOURNED 16:00:39 Present: EricP, David Booth, Rob Hausam, Harold Solbrig, Luis Marco 16:02:49 Chair: David Booth 16:02:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:02:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 18:50:03 Zakim has left #hcls