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15:26:53 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:27:01 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing WG Telco
15:27:15 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2017Jul/0232.html
15:27:21 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
15:27:39 <ivan> Regrets+ Garth
15:28:40 <ivan> regrets+ laurent, cmaden
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15:47:48 <rdeltour> rdeltour has joined #pwg
15:52:04 <wolfgang> wolfgang has joined #pwg
15:54:57 <wolfgang> hi to all!
15:55:58 <George> George has joined #pwg
15:56:42 <ivan> present+
15:56:44 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #pwg
15:57:13 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
15:57:15 <tzviya> present+
15:57:22 <ivan> present+ rachel, george
15:57:46 <ivan> present+ Reinaldo_Ferraz
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15:59:01 <rdeltour> present+
15:59:05 <Avneesh> present+
15:59:16 <pkra> present+ Peter Krautzberger
15:59:32 <mattg> present+
15:59:45 <ivan> present+ rdeltour
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16:00:07 <ivan> present+ jun_gamo
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16:00:22 <ivan> present+ mattg
16:00:41 <ivan> present+ dkaplan3
16:00:46 <ivan> scribenick: rdeltour
16:00:51 <dkaplan3> present+ Deborah_Kaplan
16:01:11 <ivan> present+ rkwright
16:01:17 <rkwright> present +
16:01:39 <ivan> present+ bill_kasdorf
16:01:50 <bigbluehat> present+ Benjamin_Young
16:02:14 <leonardr> leonardr has joined #pwg
16:02:18 <leonardr> present+ Leonard
16:02:23 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2017/2017-07-24-minutes
16:02:24 <geealbers> present +
16:02:34 <clapierre> clapierre has joined #pwg
16:02:42 <rdeltour> tzviya: any comments on the minutes?
16:02:45 <ivan> resolved: minutes accepted
16:02:51 <rdeltour> ... minutes approved!
16:03:16 <ivan> present+ geealbers
16:03:31 <hagreen> hagreen has joined #pwg
16:03:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pwg
16:03:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:03:58 <rdeltour> tzviya: we have some new member, who are here for the 1st time, please introduce yourself
16:04:06 <rdeltour> greg: Greg Albert, from Getty in LA
16:04:19 <ivan> present+ hagreen
16:04:20 <rdeltour> ... doing some web publication, open access publication, excited to be part of this!
16:04:30 <hagreen> Harriett Green, from UIUC
16:04:53 <rdeltour> renaldo: Renaldo, working with web publication, background on open web technologies and accessibility
16:05:01 <ivan> present+ Reinaldo_Ferraz
16:05:21 <rdeltour> s/Albert/Albers/
16:05:30 <rdeltour> s/Renaldo/Renaldo Ferraz/
16:05:44 <rdeltour> tzviya: we discussed a lot the definition of WP and other terminology
16:05:45 <ivan> Topic: definition of web publications
16:05:51 <rdeltour> ... some of the terms are defined in the charter
16:05:54 <tzviya> https://w3c.github.io/wpub/#terminology
16:06:00 <rdeltour> ... Matt provided some working definition in the draft
16:06:11 <rdeltour> ... let's take 5 minutes to go throught the terminology
16:06:29 <rdeltour> ... the basic definition is the WP definition
16:06:39 <duga> duga has joined #pwg
16:06:55 <duga> present+
16:06:57 <rdeltour> ... current definition reads:
16:06:59 <rdeltour> A Web Publication is a collection of one or more primary resources, organized together through a manifest into a single logical work with a default reading order. The Web Publication is uniquely identifiable and presentable using Open Web Platform technologies.
16:07:08 <rdeltour> tzivya: let's vote, +1 / -1
16:07:11 <wolfgang> +1
16:07:12 <tzviya> +1
16:07:13 <mattg> +1
16:07:13 <dkaplan3> +1
16:07:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:07:14 <rkwright> +1
16:07:15 <leonardr> +1
16:07:16 <pkra> +1
16:07:16 <jun_gamo> +1
16:07:16 <hagreen> +1
16:07:17 <ivan> +1
16:07:18 <geealbers> +1
16:07:20 <bigbluehat> +1
16:07:22 <Rachel> +1
16:07:23 <rdeltour> q+
16:07:31 <tzviya> ack r
16:08:02 <timCole> timCole has joined #pwg
16:08:15 <rdeltour> rdeltour: not sure about "uniquely" vs  "unambiguously"
16:08:24 <ivan> Resolved: the working definition for the FPWD is: "A Web Publication is a collection of one or more primary resources, organized together through a manifest into a single logical work with a default reading order. The Web Publication is uniquely identifiable and presentable using Open Web Platform technologies."
16:08:29 <rdeltour> ... but +1 from me
16:08:46 <rdeltour> tzviya: we can't change the charter, any issue?
16:08:49 <rdeltour> ivan: I dont't think so
16:08:55 <tzviya> A manifest represents structured information about a Web Publication, such as informative metadata, a list of all primary and secondary resources, and the default reading order.
16:09:04 <clapierre> present+
16:09:08 <timCole> present+ Tim_Cole
16:09:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> on default reading order, I'd change "static" to "specific" but I won't bring this up for discussion now ;)
16:09:12 <geealbers> +1
16:09:13 <leonardr> -1
16:09:13 <rdeltour> +1
16:09:14 <tzviya> +1
16:09:14 <mattg> +1
16:09:16 <wolfgang> +1
16:09:16 <jun_gamo> +1
16:09:17 <ivan> +1
16:09:17 <timCole> +1
16:09:19 <bigbluehat> +1
16:09:20 <pkra> +1
16:09:20 <hagreen> +1
16:09:20 <duga> +1
16:09:21 <Rachel> +1
16:09:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:09:22 <clapierre> +1
16:09:22 <George> +1
16:09:43 <leslie> leslie has joined #pwg
16:09:53 <ivan> s/definition of web publications/terminology issues/
16:10:07 <rdeltour> leonardr: I guess it's minor. Concerned about "such as" meaning that all are present and in the manifest
16:10:14 <rdeltour> ... we've not decided about that
16:10:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:10:32 <rdeltour> ... I agree with the concept, but the wording may be too explicit for now
16:10:36 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:10:43 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #pwg
16:10:48 <rdeltour> tzviya: I suggest you propose an alternate wording
16:10:51 <duga> q+
16:11:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> "such as" specifically means "may or may not be included."
16:11:11 <rdeltour> ivan: nothing herer is final, it's only for FPWD, we can amend that later
16:11:23 <rdeltour> leonardr: a small change may make everybody happy
16:11:24 <tzviya> ack du
16:11:49 <leonardr>  A manifest represents structured information about a Web Publication. This may include informative metadata, a list of all primary and secondary resources, and the default reading order.
16:12:04 <rdeltour> duga: we can maybe clarify after the definition, to avoid crafting the ultimate definition
16:12:11 <hughmcguire> hughmcguire has joined #pwg
16:12:21 <rdeltour> leonardr: see the suggested wording above
16:12:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> I'd argue that they're saying the same thing, so sure, okay by me.
16:12:38 <Hadrien> "all" secondary resources
16:12:43 <hughmcguire> can someone post the link to the doc we are working on? I can’t find
16:12:44 <Hadrien> not sure we can always have them all
16:12:45 <hughmcguire> thanks
16:12:56 <tzviya> https://w3c.github.io/wpub/#terminology
16:13:00 <leonardr> @hadrien - that's why I like my "may include"
16:13:48 <rdeltour> mattg: no specific comment. I used "such as" because it's not finalized. a note for the terminology section as a whole, saying there are working definitions and subject to change
16:14:00 <leonardr> q+
16:14:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to what Tzviya just said
16:14:11 <tzviya> ack l
16:14:14 <rdeltour> tzviya: I prefer this approach. again, we're trying to move forward, not craft somethign that's perfect
16:14:15 <clapierre> this may include items such as… ?
16:14:44 <ivan> present+ clapierre, hughmcguire, leslie, Hadrien
16:14:55 <rdeltour> leonardr: we all agree about the first part. but we haven't agreed on what's gonna be in the manifest, what goes there and what goes somewhere else. the definition is the first part.
16:15:08 <rdeltour> tzivya: I'm concerned that we're getting caught up in details
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16:15:11 <ivan> s/the working definition for the FPWD is:/the working definition for the FPWD for WP is:/
16:15:18 <timCole> We want to be careful about the use of 'may' since this has specific meaning in the context of specs. So I prefer working definition.
16:15:21 <rdeltour> ... consensus is not unanimity
16:15:29 <dkaplan3> +1 for moving forward
16:15:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:15:36 <bigbluehat> +1
16:15:38 <rdeltour> ... we can move forward as is, with a caveat that this is a working definition
16:15:41 <ivan> Resolved: the working definition for the FPWD for manifest: "A manifest represents structured information about a Web Publication, such as informative metadata, a list of all primary and secondary resources, and the default reading order."
16:15:42 <Avneesh> prese+1 to move forward
16:15:43 <wolfgang> +1 for moving forward
16:15:44 <pkra> +1
16:15:52 <clapierre> +1
16:15:54 <ivan> present+ Avneesh
16:15:58 <rdeltour> ... Matt, are the other definitions ready for approval?
16:16:01 <leonardr> +1 to move forward
16:16:11 <rdeltour> mattg: yes, should be. these are stnadard pieces
16:16:14 <ivan> present+ timCole
16:16:19 <tzviya> The default reading order is the static progression through the primary resources defined in the manifest by the creator of a Web Publication.
16:16:20 <tzviya> A user might follow alternative pathways through the content, but in the absence of such interaction the default reading order defines the expected progression from one primary resource to the next.
16:16:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:16:37 <rdeltour> tzivya: the _default reading order_ is the static progression through the primary resources defined in the manifest by the creator of a Web Publication.
16:16:37 <rdeltour> A user might follow alternative pathways through the content, but in the absence of such interaction the default reading order defines the expected progression from one primary resource to the next.
16:16:47 <tzviya> ack bi
16:17:00 <rdeltour> billk: ???
16:17:09 <leonardr> q+
16:17:12 <rdeltour> tzviya: let's vote
16:17:14 <rdeltour> +1
16:17:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:17:16 <geealbers> +1
16:17:16 <wolfgang> +1
16:17:17 <duga> +1
16:17:17 <tzviya> +1
16:17:18 <George> +1
16:17:18 <ivan> =1
16:17:19 <dkaplan3> +1
16:17:19 <bigbluehat> +1
16:17:19 <jun_gamo> +1
16:17:20 <mattg> +1
16:17:21 <timCole> +1
16:17:23 <ReinaldoFerraz> +1
16:17:23 <leonardr> +.05
16:17:23 <pkra> +1
16:17:24 <hagreen> +1
16:17:25 <Rachel> +1
16:17:32 <clapierre> s/???/ change static to precise
16:17:34 <clapierre> +1
16:17:40 <ivan> +1
16:17:48 <hughmcguire> +1
16:18:09 <tzviya> q?
16:18:13 <tzviya> ack l
16:18:14 <mateus> mateus has joined #pwg
16:18:17 <Hadrien> yup, static is confusing
16:18:20 <rdeltour> tzviya: no -1, Charles and Bill will propose a change about "static"
16:18:32 <ivan> Resolved: the working definition for the FPWD for reading order: "The default reading order is the static progression through the primary resources defined in the manifest by the creator of a Web Publication. A user might follow alternative pathways through the content, but in the absence of such interaction the default reading order defines the expected progression from one primary resource to the next."
16:18:40 <rdeltour> leonardr: remove the reference to "defined in the manifest" to remove the circular reference
16:18:48 <jeffp> jeffp has joined #pwg
16:18:53 <rdeltour> tzviya: not sure I agree but we'll look into it
16:18:54 <tzviya> A primary resource is a resource listed in the default reading order of a Web Publication.
16:18:54 <tzviya> A primary resource typically references many secondary resources necessary for it to be correctly processed and rendered (e.g., style sheets, scripts, multimedia files).
16:19:10 <mateus> present+
16:19:38 <rdeltour> tzviya: before we do the vote, there were many discussion in emails
16:19:51 <ivan> +1
16:19:53 <tzviya> +1
16:19:55 <rdeltour> ... again, quick vote, and we can do work later if need be
16:19:55 <wolfgang> +1
16:19:55 <dkaplan3> +1
16:19:55 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:19:56 <rdeltour> +1
16:19:56 <clapierre> +1
16:19:57 <mattg> +1
16:19:58 <bigbluehat> +1
16:19:58 <timCole> +1
16:19:59 <jun_gamo> +1
16:19:59 <rkwright> +1
16:20:01 <geealbers> +1
16:20:01 <duga> +0
16:20:02 <Rachel> +1
16:20:04 <George> +1
16:20:06 <Avneesh> +1
16:20:08 <pkra> +1
16:20:09 <hagreen> +1
16:20:09 <leonardr> +1
16:20:13 <ReinaldoFerraz> +1
16:20:23 <ivan> Resolved: the working definition for the FPWD for primary resoure: "A primary resource is a resource listed in the default reading order of a Web Publication. A primary resource typically references many secondary resources necessary for it to be correctly processed and rendered (e.g., style sheets, scripts, multimedia files)."
16:20:26 <rdeltour> tzviya: Brady, why +0?
16:20:38 <leonardr> +1 to Brady :)
16:20:51 <rdeltour> duga: I think it's too vague, but I'm ok to move forward. are images primary resources, is it only HTML?
16:21:10 <rdeltour> tzviya: I wonder why you're fine with it if you don't understand the definition, but ok
16:21:17 <pkra> there was discussion that multimedia files can easily be primary.
16:21:21 <bigbluehat> agree with Brady's concerns, but also would like to move on to building/writing...and then revisit the definitions
16:21:22 <rdeltour> duga: I don't have a better thing to replace it with
16:21:38 <rdeltour> mattg: would it make sense to say "may reference" instead of "typically" ?
16:21:48 <leonardr> q+
16:21:59 <rdeltour> duga: one of the reason I don't have a good rpelacement is that we've not discussed what is a primary resource yet
16:22:12 <hughmcguire> let’s make a list of things that might be primary resources… and then decide?
16:22:20 <rdeltour> mattg: yes, it's vague at this point, but fills in a gap for now.
16:22:31 <hughmcguire> q+
16:22:41 <wolfgang> s/rpelacement/replacement/
16:22:47 <jeffp> Hello, I'm an a11y developer from Macmillan Learning
16:23:14 <rdeltour> jeffp: Jeff, I'm one of the devs from Macmilan, focusing on a11y
16:23:36 <hughmcguire> fun!
16:23:57 <Hadrien> Yuri is from Evident Point
16:24:06 <rkwright> Yuri Khramov
16:24:18 <ivan> Present+ Yuri_Kharmov
16:24:25 <tzviya> q?
16:24:27 <tzviya> ack l
16:24:28 <rdeltour> Yuri: Yuri Khramov, from Evident Point, working on Readium (1 & 2), founder of Evident Point
16:25:06 <Hadrien> primary = in the reading order
16:25:15 <rdeltour> leonardr: going back to the def, I'm fine going forward with the def. I don't think the formar ot primary resource is gonna be a problem, but we need to understand conceptually what is primary and secondary
16:25:16 <hughmcguire> +1 to hadrien
16:25:22 <tzviya> ack h
16:25:30 <wolfgang> +1 to hadrien
16:25:55 <leonardr> @hadrien - the problem is that you then get a circular reference :(
16:26:10 <rdeltour> hughmcguire:  in general I liked the conversation about using bullet list to understnad what can be primary resources. I suggest we do that after we approve on the working definition
16:26:20 <leonardr> and I think can think of things that are primary but not necessary in the default RO
16:26:27 <ivan> topic: web packaging spec
16:26:31 <rdeltour> tzivya: reminder that Matt is the only one who actually proposed some editting, so please propose some wording
16:26:32 <Hadrien> @leonardr I'm not fully convinced that we need two definitions, this would avoid the circular nature of it
16:26:53 <rdeltour> ... some people from Google have beem working on a fork of the Packaging spec
16:27:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> secondary = a resource not in the primary reading order but referenced from a resource in the primary reading order
16:27:08 <rdeltour> ... there's a standard way to save a related set as HTTP responses
16:27:12 <ivan> s/beem/been/
16:27:21 <leonardr> q+
16:27:27 <rdeltour> ... [see other steps in an email]
16:27:38 <rdeltour> ,,, Jeffery will likely join us for a meeting in a few weeks
16:27:56 <rdeltour> ... we need to set up use cases to make it obvious that the speciication will be useful to anybody
16:28:01 <tzviya> ack l
16:28:16 <rdeltour> leonardr: we should clarify something, I talked to Adobe IETF representatives
16:28:29 <rdeltour> ... all that took place was Jeff giving a presentation on his ideas
16:28:43 <rdeltour> tzviya: there's a lot of discusssion, we know it's not decided
16:29:12 <rdeltour> leonardr: there is still a belief that splitting it up to 2 separate [no audio]
16:29:22 <rdeltour> ... my understanding is that it's not  a done deal
16:29:45 <rdeltour> tzviya: I was just summarizing what the current proposal is, and that we'll have a meeting with Jeffrey
16:29:57 <duga> q+
16:30:00 <rdeltour> leonardr: we as a group should take a position on what we want to have
16:30:21 <rdeltour> ivan: honestly, I read that email and I don't understand it
16:30:36 <rdeltour> ... I don't know where this work is going and whether it's relevant for us
16:30:48 <rdeltour> ... until we have a meeting and get a clearer view, I can't tell
16:31:19 <rdeltour> ... this is more heading towards caching, which is not necessarilty what we're interested in. I have no position since I don't understand it yet
16:31:20 <bigbluehat> we also have these use cases as a guideline when considering packaging formats http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp-ucr/#pwp
16:31:24 <tzviya> ack du
16:31:32 <rdeltour> tzviya: hopefully we'll get clarity with the meeting
16:31:45 <rdeltour> duga: we don't have the data to back up a position, so we need the data first
16:31:56 <rdeltour> ... then we can define what is our position
16:32:30 <rdeltour> ... my understanding it matches fairly well what we want, but we should wait for the meeting with Jeffrey
16:32:35 <rdeltour> Topic: identifiers
16:32:39 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2017Jul/0173.html
16:32:40 <ivan> Topic: Identifier and locators
16:33:25 <rdeltour> tzviya: if you didn't have a chance to follow the entire thread, that's understandable
16:33:40 <rdeltour> ... let's take a look at where we're going, and hash out what we want to accomplish with it
16:34:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:34:05 <rdeltour> ... Tim and Benjamin are experienced with locators, BillK on identifiers, etc.
16:34:37 <rdeltour> tzviya: quoting the email:
16:34:39 <rdeltour> - a publication has a manifest, which is addressable (it has a URL)
16:34:39 <rdeltour> - a publication has HTML content ("primary resources", it seems), which is addressable (each primary resource has a URL)
16:34:40 <rdeltour> - assuming that the manifest is an external non-HTML document (read JSON), its URL is different from any of the URLs to the HTML content.
16:34:57 <tzviya> ack bi
16:35:27 <rdeltour> Bill_Kasdorf: lots and lots of different identifiers
16:35:32 <timCole> q+
16:35:49 <rdeltour> ... we're looking for a _unique_ identifier for WP, my position is that it s/b an addressable identifier
16:36:00 <rdeltour> [poor audio quality]
16:36:31 <Hadrien> +1 for what Bill just said
16:36:33 <tzviya> ack ti
16:36:37 <rdeltour> ... fundamentally, I'd like to see an identifier aligning with Web standard, and I think this identifier s/b agnostic to the serialization of the manifest
16:36:59 <rdeltour> timCole: there's gonna be a difference between _identifier_ and _locator_
16:38:10 <rdeltour> ... it's not unreasonable that identifier can be used by machine and human agents, they can be the same, but you don't have to. A human cannot read JSON, a machine can
16:38:11 <ivan> q+
16:38:12 <Karen> Karen has joined #pwg
16:38:46 <rdeltour> ... in terms of locators, the main lesson from the Web Annotation was that understanding that we want to identifiy content that may appear in different locations
16:38:58 <rdeltour> ... or provide a way to point to ??? or allow both
16:39:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to identifying content that may appear in different locations
16:39:07 <tzviya> ack iv
16:39:11 <rdeltour> ... a number of sub discussions have to get started
16:39:51 <rdeltour> ivan: when I have an identifier and want to map it to something to dereference it, the quesiton is what do I dereference it to?
16:40:03 <rdeltour> ... then it can be either the manifest, or HTML, etc
16:40:09 <rdeltour> ... not sure that we need to define that
16:40:20 <rdeltour> ... we need to define the mechanism that UA can use
16:40:41 <rdeltour> ... in some situations people will have the ability to set up content negociation
16:40:51 <rdeltour> ... but not everyone is able to set it up
16:41:08 <wolfgang> s/negociation/negotiation/
16:41:13 <tzviya> q?
16:41:20 <rdeltour> ... we had some thoughts about that in the IG, whereby we setup an algorithm saying that there are diffferent ways
16:41:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:41:32 <rdeltour> ... I'm not sure we should specify one and only one among all these
16:41:51 <rdeltour> ... at the end of the route we have to get to a manifest, but there may be different possibilities
16:42:17 <rdeltour> tzviya: one of my concern is that when we're talking about what our identifier should be it comes down to serialization
16:42:52 <rdeltour> ... the question is: what's the identifier for a WP?
16:42:59 <tzviya> ack bi
16:43:04 <rdeltour> ... then we need to log subquestions to move on
16:43:27 <rdeltour> Bill_Kasdorf: I prefer to define clearly what do we need this identifier to be
16:43:34 <wolfgang> identifier as globally unique ID descriptor for a WP
16:44:00 <rdeltour> ... the other point, is that I'd actually postpone the dereferencing issue to after we define what the manifest will look like
16:44:19 <rdeltour> ... what do we need to be agnostic about?
16:44:30 <rdeltour> tzivya: we can use a Google doc to get it started
16:44:34 <ivan> q?
16:44:35 <rdeltour> Bill_Kasdorf: OK, I'll do that
16:44:40 <rdeltour> q+
16:44:45 <tzviya> ack rd
16:45:48 <rdeltour> rdeltour: I agree with Bill that we need to agree on what the identifer is gonna be used for, before even trying to define what it looks like
16:46:04 <bigbluehat> And we need to answer questions like "is the identifier also a locator"--or just a unique-ifier ;)
16:46:06 <rdeltour> tzviya: I have a document that I can share, but Bill you can start a new one
16:46:19 <rdeltour> ... any other comments?
16:46:20 <tzviya> document with requirements from github: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NzYLURq4zqkeGoCJbY-5rlIUsfPt9Dy5S10BLOA-tGg/edit?usp=sharing
16:46:20 <bigbluehat> or...we at least need to have a list of those questions with pro/cons
16:46:41 <rdeltour> ivan: the question from Benjamin on IRC is very relevant
16:46:46 <rdeltour> +1
16:47:21 <rdeltour> bigbluehat: [muted]
16:47:52 <timCole> q+
16:47:58 <rdeltour> ivan: If I'm talking about identifier, it just uniquely identifies a thing in the wild
16:48:18 <rdeltour> ... it can be mapped to a locator, and via that route can be used to find a document on the Web
16:48:42 <rdeltour> ... DOI is a good example. there's a clear way set up by the scholarly publishing community to go from a DOI to a Web page
16:48:54 <tzviya> ack t
16:49:02 <rdeltour> ... we need a clear mind on whether we need an identifier mappable to a locator or not
16:49:19 <rdeltour> timCole: whatever we come up for an identifier, we have to identify structures
16:49:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:49:39 <rdeltour> ... we can start enumerating the kind of identifiers used in publications today
16:49:56 <rdeltour> ivan: the charter says explicitly we are not chartered to come up with a new identifier scheme
16:50:09 <rdeltour> ... but we have to be able to answer the issue eventually
16:50:24 <tzviya> ack bi
16:50:28 <rdeltour> ... we can't list all the exisiting identifiers
16:50:32 <Hadrien> +1 with Ivan for both points
16:50:53 <rdeltour> Bill_Kasdorf: just to clarify even a DOI is not a crossref DOI, there are other uses
16:51:06 <rdeltour> ... there are DOI for movies, videos, etc
16:51:25 <rdeltour> ... we need to be agnostic about those things
16:51:38 <rdeltour> ... they're outside of our scope IMO
16:51:58 <rdeltour> ivan: I agree, and we get back to the question that we've asked ourselves in the IG
16:52:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:52:13 <bigbluehat> q+ (hopefully)
16:52:13 <rdeltour> ... essentially, we have to answer what happens when we dereference the identifier
16:52:22 <rdeltour> q+
16:52:27 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:52:28 <tzviya> ack bi
16:52:42 <rdeltour> bigbluehat: [still muted]
16:53:04 <tzviya> ack r
16:53:05 <ivan> ack bigbluehat
16:53:08 <tzviya> ack (
16:53:31 <leonardr> q+
16:53:40 <ivan> q+
16:53:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:54:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:54:03 <rdeltour> rdeltour: not even convinced we need the identifier to be addressable, we need to talk about that first
16:54:05 <tzviya> ack l
16:54:21 <rdeltour> leonardr: I agree with Romain on that one, we're getting identifiers and locators backwards
16:54:30 <tzviya> ack iv
16:54:35 <rdeltour> ... identifiers have nothing to do with dereferencing
16:54:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:55:01 <tzviya> zakim, close the queue
16:55:01 <Zakim> ok, tzviya, the speaker queue is closed
16:55:12 <rdeltour> ivan: I agree the identifier itself doesn't need to be dereferenceable, but the identifier can be mapped to a locator, and we have something to say about what it maps to
16:55:33 <rdeltour> ... [describes the DOI use case]
16:55:42 <tzviya> ack bi
16:55:45 <rdeltour> ... we have to say what is that represents the WP
16:56:32 <rdeltour> Bill_Kasforf: all the identifiers can refer to a physical thing that is [poor audio quality, sorry :/]
16:56:48 <rdeltour> tzivya: 4 mins left, a bunch of people signed up to write some sections
16:56:49 <ivan> Topic: FPWD contribution status
16:56:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> thanks, Benjamin!
16:57:14 <rdeltour> ... once again, what do you need from us to get started, what's missing?
16:57:32 <geealbers> Are the sections and volunteers listed somewhere?
16:57:40 <timCole> q+
16:57:58 <rdeltour> ... if you have questions about how to use gh or ReSpec, I'm available, Ivan is available
16:58:08 <hughmcguire> we (rebus = boris, baldur & I) will be drafting something to send to Luc tomorrow. Then we’ll talk, & hopefully be ready to publish something.
16:58:16 <rdeltour> timCole: mostly for Matt: should we do pull requests?
16:58:18 <hughmcguire> re: metadata
16:58:30 <rdeltour> mattg: just right straight in
16:58:40 <tzviya> s/right/write
16:58:51 <rdeltour> ivan: at the moment only a few people have direct edit rights, only those officially nominated as editors
16:59:00 <rdeltour> ... so you have to go through the PR mechanism at this point
16:59:11 <rdeltour> s/PR/pull request/
16:59:29 <rdeltour> timCole: the ability to make issue labels would be nice
16:59:44 <rdeltour> ivan: if you can't, you know where to find me!
17:00:12 <dkaplan3> +1 Tzviya feeling better
17:00:19 <rdeltour> tzivya: thank you, have a good week!
17:00:21 <rdeltour> rrsagent, please make minutes
17:00:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/31-pwg-minutes.html rdeltour
17:00:39 <timCole> timCole has left #pwg
17:00:40 <jun_gamo> jun_gamo has left #pwg
17:00:50 <hughmcguire> hughmcguire has left #pwg
17:00:53 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:00:53 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ivan, wolfgang, tzviya, rachel, george, Reinaldo_Ferraz, rdeltour, Avneesh, Peter, Krautzberger, mattg, jun_gamo, dkaplan3,
17:00:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg
17:00:56 <Zakim> ... Deborah_Kaplan, rkwright, bill_kasdorf, Benjamin_Young, Leonard, geealbers, hagreen, duga, clapierre, Tim_Cole, hughmcguire, leslie, Hadrien, timCole, .05, mateus, Yuri_Kharmov
17:01:09 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/31-pwg-minutes.html ivan
17:01:14 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:01:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items