13:52:15 RRSAgent has joined #pwg-ptf 13:52:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-pwg-ptf-irc 13:52:26 Zakim has joined #pwg-ptf 13:53:31 present+ 13:53:37 zakim, who is here 13:53:37 mateus, you need to end that query with '?' 13:53:44 zakim, who is here? 13:53:44 Present: mateus 13:53:46 On IRC I see RRSAgent, mateus 14:04:29 mattg has joined #pwg-ptf 14:04:35 rdeltour has joined #pwg-ptf 14:04:45 laurentlemeur has joined #pwg-ptf 14:04:56 present+ 14:05:05 present+ 14:05:25 Rachel has joined #pwg-ptf 14:05:32 scribe: Romain 14:05:55 scribe: Rachel 14:05:58 present+ 14:05:59 present+ 14:06:51 clapierre has joined #pwg-ptf 14:07:18 mateus: our role is defining what personalization means to web publications. I drafted an early agenda that I sent via the invitation 14:07:35 Topic: what does personalization mean and how does it relate to us 14:08:27 mateus: for the purposes of web publications do we need to go any further that the existing list of recommendations. Do we need the option of overriding personalization options. 14:09:17 Laurentlemeur: maybe we could focus on how we ask the reading system to personalize (or not) the display. As of now this doesn't exist. 14:09:48 mateus: where do we draw a boundary between authoring and personalization 14:10:04 ... do we need to identify a need to override within the system 14:10:26 ...I'm thinking of some of dauwhe's proposals, ie full bleeds 14:10:48 ... is there anything else that we should consider here besides the traditional personalizations? 14:11:08 ... do we know who is using these use cases and how (ie accessibility) 14:11:33 bigbluehat has joined #pwg-ptf 14:11:40 clapierre: there is a lot of personalization that we can envision - for example simplification of the page 14:11:56 ... being able to change color scheme, margin widths, line spacing 14:12:29 ... customizing font - there are mixed reviews about dyslexia (the font was recently added to Readium c/o Benetech) 14:13:03 ... I'm going to be joining the ARIA folks and see what they are starting work on and seeing how it relates to the publishing group 14:13:23 mateus: with that in mind, do we need to prescribe anything for web publications to support 14:14:05 clapierre: there may be markup required (ie footnotes, running headers, etc) - it could be dpub-aria and then it would be up to the reading system to interact with those 14:15:05 mateus: so this is really about content structure and as long as there is proper semantic inflection the reading system and user should be able to make use 14:15:59 clapierre: we tried this at a codesprint by adding semantic markup to content and then used js to find those tags and change content reresentation on the fly 14:16:31 mateus: so is personalization really about how the reading system interprets the content? That seems to be where we're leaning. 14:16:42 present+ 14:17:35 ... where are we on content authoring and user choices. If it's critical to the presentation of the content that it's done in a certain way - where does the boundary lie in whether publishers should be ableto allow to override settings 14:18:10 mattg: its inevitable that publishers will override and we need a way of reporting that 14:18:19 ... ie font size 14:18:56 laurentlemeur: an accessible book requires that you not have nonmodifiable content 14:20:11 mateus: does it fall on us to define this in the manifest? 14:20:52 clapierre: we've added a lot of accessibility metadata including access modes, summary (human readable), etc 14:21:35 ... we can add in more features that address personalization and loop in mattg and Madeleine Rothberg 14:22:04 ... that's more for discovery than anything else 14:22:13 mateus: I think that would be very helpful 14:22:21 +1 clapierre and mateus 14:23:00 mateus: there seems to be some overlap, especially with the accessibility task force - we should reach out to avneesh and george to weigh in 14:23:20 ... the primary use case is accessing content in a structured manner 14:23:32 ... that aids in ease of use/better user experience 14:23:58 Evan: the personalization semantics group would be most helpful 14:24:12 ... i could see a publishing specifc version of that being helpful 14:25:13 mateus: sounds like our work is simpler than it seemed. We need to identify in the personalization part of the spec that we can surface requirements that are in other ares of the spec 14:25:59 clapierre: are we going to think about where the content is being consumed - the web on a large screen, cell phone or tablet (with little space) 14:26:12 mateus: my thought is that it should 14:26:35 ... do we define a specific way of addressing this so there is a universal system for applying the override 14:26:47 ... for example nightmode 14:27:06 ... especially if we consider the possibility of packing and leaving the web envirnment 14:27:38 laurent: I am in favor of that - there is lack of interoperability btwn readers, if we can have mobile rules then it will make a better future 14:28:14 clapierre: one thing we might also have to talk about fixed layout 14:29:04 mateus: we will try to loop in new members who are passionate about these topics 14:29:19 clapierre: there is a task force for mobility that we could reach out to 14:30:36 laurent: some people in the working group think that reading systems should not exist and that everything should beincluded inside the publication. I think that this task force should take a position. IMO the reading system should be able to apply overrides for a universal experience within the system 14:31:08 mateus: if we were to leave these options to the individual publications, there would be a 100 unique approaches 14:31:19 ... it created a nightmare for interoperability 14:31:59 ... we can curtail the question and say 'these are rules by which this is read by the user agent' 14:32:50 Topic: How do we relate to other working groups in w3c 14:33:05 mateus: clapierre has offered to reach out to the aria group 14:33:21 ... I can also reach out to dave and tzviya 14:34:13 ... are there any other points for discussion? 14:34:22 laurent: have you drafted anything yet? 14:34:25 mateus: not yet 14:35:07 ...once we have more info about the interplay with other groups we can start drafting, but I'll start with github issues 14:35:24 ... we dont have a good idea from the manifest task force about how that will be defined 14:35:50 clapierre: please tag for personalization in github 14:36:26 Evan: it's going to be difficult to define how wp personalization is going to be different from general personalization until wp itself is defined 14:36:50 mateus: thanks - I'll start opening up issues 14:36:59 rrsagent, make logs public 14:37:06 rrsagent, make minutes 14:37:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-pwg-ptf-minutes.html Rachel 14:37:53 I'm slowly learning from watching tzviya 14:38:04 +1000 14:38:32 laurentlemeur has left #pwg-ptf 14:44:47 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 14:45:08 finally connected… 14:47:29 yeah, i was on the call, but irc was giving me issues 14:55:46 mateus has left #pwg-ptf 15:16:04 mattg has left #pwg-ptf 15:16:45 evan has left #pwg-ptf 15:21:32 clapierre has left #pwg-ptf 16:29:17 Zakim has left #pwg-ptf 16:57:20 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 16:57:56 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 17:00:00 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 17:01:56 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 17:43:38 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 19:28:21 evan has joined #pwg-ptf 20:47:51 evan has joined #pwg-ptf