IRC log of tt on 2017-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs public

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Zakim, this will be TTML

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ok, trackbot

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

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Date: 20 July 2017

14:00:27 [nigel]

scribe: nigel

14:00:38 [nigel]

Present: Nigel, Pierre, Andreas

14:00:40 [nigel]

Regrets: Glenn

14:00:44 [nigel]

Chair: Nigel

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Audio sounds great

14:02:04 [pal]

I am in the middle of another meeting so cannot really participate

14:02:22 [nigel]

s/I am in the middle of another meeting so cannot really participate/

14:02:30 [nigel]

s/Audio sounds great/

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14:03:39 [nigel]

Topic: This meeting

14:04:15 [nigel]

Nigel: Today, we will look at the PQ in PNG Note, and the CSS features in TTML wiki page,

14:04:31 [nigel]

.. which I need to be able to share with TAG tomorrow prior to meeting them next week,

14:05:48 [nigel]

Nigel: I don't think there's much to discuss for IMSC or TTML or WebVTT this week. AOB?

14:05:53 [nigel]

Andreas: No other business from me.

14:06:35 [nigel]

Topic: HDR in PNG

14:06:49 [nigel]

Nigel: We said we'd propose to publish this week. Any feedback received?

14:07:01 [nigel]

Pierre: I've not received any further feedback.

14:07:09 [nigel]

Nigel: I don't have anything to add on this.

14:07:14 [nigel]

Andreas: Not from me either.

14:07:31 [nigel]

PROPOSAL: Publish the png-hdr-pq document as a WG Note

14:08:05 [nigel]

Nigel: I'm not sure about the practicalities of publishing this.

14:08:10 [nigel]

Pierre: Can we use echidna?

14:08:13 [nigel]

Nigel: I don't know@

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s/@/!

14:08:23 [nigel]

Pierre: I'm happy to follow up with Thierry.

14:08:52 [nigel]

.. The Echidna tool says it can publish Notes with a group decision and a token.

14:09:02 [nigel]

.. I should be able to request the token if it doesn't have one already and just do it.

14:09:06 [nigel]

Nigel: Great.

14:10:03 [nigel]

RESOLUTION: Publish the png-hdr-pq document as a WG Note.

14:10:32 [nigel]

rrsagent, make minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel

14:11:26 [nigel]

Nigel: I raised this as an issue on the repo:

14:11:33 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq/issues/5 Publish as a Note #5

14:11:58 [nigel]

Topic: CSS styling equivalents of TTML2 and IMSC features

14:12:05 [nigel]

action-497?

14:12:05 [trackbot]

action-497 -- Nigel Megitt to Invite csswg to joint meeting at tpac 2017, with list of topics. -- due 2017-06-15 -- OPEN

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http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/497

14:12:20 [nigel]

Nigel: I've been in discussion with Alan Stearns about this - there has been a bit of early

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.. discussion of CSS WG feedback for TTML2 in the CSSWG reflector.

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.. I've also updated the CSS Requirements wiki page.

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-> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CSSRequirements TTML and IMSC styling features that are hard to reproduce in CSS

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14:15:33 [nigel]

Present+ Thierry

14:17:34 [nigel]

Nigel: I think this is okay now but I don't know if anyone has any comments on it or suggestions

14:17:37 [nigel]

.. for anything to change?

14:17:43 [nigel]

Andreas: I haven't had the chance to review it.

14:18:05 [nigel]

Nigel: I plan to share it by end of play tomorrow so any feedback really needs to come soon please.

14:18:37 [nigel]

Pierre: David Baron went to some length previously.

14:19:00 [nigel]

-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2016Nov/0106.html David Baron email feedback 2016-11-23

14:19:32 [nigel]

-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2017Jul/0007.html Florian's email discussion thread to www-style 2017-07-14

14:20:03 [nigel]

Pierre: It would be good to involve them in the discussion at least.

14:20:14 [nigel]

Nigel: Yes, I assume David will be there at TAG next week but I'm not certain.

14:20:31 [nigel]

.. It's a good point I should make sure his analysis is represented in the wiki page.

14:22:14 [nigel]

.. I also noticed that there are some attributes like rubyOverhang and rubyOverhang class

14:22:30 [nigel]

.. that are missing from Dae's list on imsc#218 so I pinged him there to ask but he hasn't

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.. yet replied.

14:22:39 [nigel]

Pierre: Do you have textOutline on there too?

14:22:46 [nigel]

Nigel: No, can that not be done with text-shadow?

14:23:04 [nigel]

Pierre: No, it cannot be done in CSS except with one proprietary (Apple) extension.

14:23:15 [nigel]

Nigel: OK I'll add that.

14:23:51 [nigel]

.. Oh, rubyOffset seems missing too.

14:24:03 [nigel]

Pierre: I think everything else you've already covered or it has good support already.

14:24:41 [nigel]

Nigel: Oh I've just spotted inlineAreaBreak too, which is needed for linePadding - that's

14:24:58 [nigel]

.. something that needs an extension relative to CSS, but I think that's already being

14:25:06 [nigel]

.. discussed in CSSWG if I remember rightly.

14:25:51 [nigel]

.. If there's anything else you see, especially in terms of accuracy of language, please let

14:25:58 [nigel]

.. me know and/or edit the document to fix it.

14:26:31 [nigel]

Pierre: I think the key step is to get agreement to include subtitles and captions in the core

14:26:46 [nigel]

.. functionality of CSS, then the details can follow from there, with give and take as needed.

14:28:55 [nigel]

Nigel: It's interesting to compare tts:displayAlign with CSS, and how it can be implemented.

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14:29:32 [nigel]

Pierre: It turns out that you need to use flex to meet the vertical positioning and I believe

14:29:39 [nigel]

.. horizontal positioning too.

14:30:31 [nigel]

.. Flex is the only way to preserve aspect ratio as well.

14:30:41 [nigel]

.. To make TTML work reliably in my experience you must use flex.

14:31:06 [nigel]

.. You may be able to do it with tables but that has other implications, like its not

14:31:14 [nigel]

.. recommended - everyone says don't do it!

14:31:52 [nigel]

Nigel: Okay I have some actions to tweak the document for now, as well as incorporating

14:32:02 [nigel]

.. any review comments over the next 24 hours.

14:32:27 [nigel]

Topic: IMSC

14:32:46 [nigel]

Pierre: I fixed the tests so line breaks are consistent and created two pull requests to

14:32:58 [nigel]

.. do that and also to fix some broken renders.

14:33:35 [nigel]

Topic: TTML2

14:33:48 [nigel]

Thierry: I had some responses for the wide review, but mainly "I'm submitting your liaison

14:34:00 [nigel]

.. to the appropriate people". I should forward them to the member list to track them.

14:34:02 [nigel]

Nigel: Yes please.

14:34:08 [nigel]

Thierry: No substantial comments so far.

14:35:41 [nigel]

Nigel: OK given that half of us have to disappear off for other things and we've covered

14:35:56 [nigel]

.. as much of our agenda as we usefully can today, let's adjourn until next week. [adjourns meeting]

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rrsagent, make minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel

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scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics

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rrsagent, make minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel

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