IRC log of rqtf on 2017-07-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:56:24 [RRSAgent]
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12:56:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:56:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
12:56:26 [Zakim]
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12:56:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
12:56:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:56:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:56:29 [trackbot]
Date: 19 July 2017
12:56:57 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Accessibility of the Web of Things - discussion of the literature
12:57:10 [jasonjgw]
agenda+ Miscellaneous updates and discussion
12:57:20 [jasonjgw]
12:57:28 [shadi]
shadi has joined #rqtf
13:01:07 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
13:01:07 [shadi]
13:01:27 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:01:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Accessibility of the Web of Things - discussion of the literature" taken up [from jasonjgw]
13:01:43 [shadi]
JW: glad W3C is having effort in this area
13:01:50 [shadi]
...need to determine the direction
13:02:04 [shadi]
...want to develop use cases to help the development of specs
13:02:26 [shadi]
...literature survey by Scott will be very helpful
13:02:53 [shadi]
SH: have a university-internal project grant
13:03:16 [shadi]
...looking at IoT, especially for in-class learning
13:03:33 [shadi]
...first step is literature review of related resources
13:03:44 [shadi]
...second part is interview of 10 students
13:04:02 [shadi]
...we completed the first part and are just starting with the second
13:04:45 [Judy]
present+ Judy
13:05:00 [shadi]
SH: literature review - started with overall definition then went into accessibility specific issues
13:05:19 [shadi]
...many papers make the point that IoT is not really all that new
13:05:35 [shadi]
...notion of connected computers is actually quite old
13:06:00 [shadi]
...for this project took definition by @@@
13:06:26 [shadi]
...interesting definition because it comes from the idea that humans forget things
13:06:51 [shadi]
...the thought of pulling in all this data, such as cloud-storage
13:07:08 [shadi]
...and taking that angle into the rise of the consumer space
13:07:40 [shadi]
...first public big brand commercial product is considered to be the LG fridge
13:07:49 [shadi]
...had a web browser and email client
13:08:14 [shadi]
...could detect products in the fridge and theortically also shop for you
13:08:27 [shadi]
...but it was quite a flop because way too early
13:08:53 [shadi]
...back then dialup connection was comment, there were hardly services, and it was expensive
13:09:02 [shadi]
...many of these aspects have changed since
13:09:27 [shadi]
...seem to be a big buzz around 2015
13:10:17 [shadi]
...more devices online, small sensors, lots of data, affordability, but also products such as Echo/Alexa
13:10:41 [shadi]
...this is sometimes referred to as the point of commercial entry of IoT
13:11:13 [shadi]
...realtime marketing, changes according to environment, adaptation to situations
13:11:28 [shadi]
...often privacy and security issues being raised
13:11:42 [shadi]
...especially hacking
13:11:58 [shadi]
...also security of data - such as tempering with data
13:13:07 [shadi]
...products fall largely into two categories: more industrial, and the more consumer-oriented
13:13:24 [shadi]
...different types of data and many kinds of sensors
13:13:59 [shadi]
...also different distribution channels, such as bluetooth, RFID, etc
13:14:20 [shadi]
...interfaces also vary, including use over mobile phones or some gadget
13:14:49 [shadi]
SH: regarding accessibility, lots of papers but most only on ehealth
13:15:00 [shadi] monitoring outpatients
13:15:19 [shadi]
...for example to assist someone in emergency
13:15:52 [shadi]
...but in tracking people's lives for this purposes, also learned more about the medical conditions of the patients
13:16:19 [shadi]
...interesting cycle here between monitoring and creating new information
13:16:49 [shadi]
...on the consumer side, assistive technology is built into many mobile devices
13:17:02 [shadi] iOS, Android, etc.
13:17:18 [shadi]
...provides choices and reduces costs in many cases
13:17:51 [shadi]
...ways of interacting also include built-in screens, like on a fridge
13:18:17 [shadi]
...these are usually not accessible but GPII may be a possible solution
13:18:38 [shadi]
...but the winner by far is interacting through the smartphone
13:19:01 [shadi]
...device that users are already acustomed to
13:19:34 [shadi]
...but also voice commands using natural language
13:19:51 [shadi]
...not an alternative but an additional option
13:20:33 [shadi]
SH: another interesting discussion is on internationalization of IoT products
13:20:48 [shadi]
...for example Echo is currently US-oriented
13:21:18 [shadi]
...IoT lightbulb requires specific IoT device to operate
13:21:23 [shadi]
...closed systems
13:21:53 [shadi]
SH: last bit is education, to improve student engagement
13:22:36 [shadi]
...interesting paper on using IoT in a university library
13:23:07 [shadi]
...reduced effort on staff but also side product on getting students to be more exact on what they are looking for
13:23:47 [shadi]
...another paper was to monitor student response and interest relating to presenter tone
13:24:55 [shadi]
SH: possible projects could be (1) improving "accessible workspace" common in many university libraries
13:25:34 [shadi]
...for example to connect devices to larger screens using chromecast or such
13:25:54 [shadi]
...(2) combination of ehealth and research as mentioned earlier
13:26:17 [shadi]
...monitoring day in the life of people with disabilities in a non-invasive ways
13:26:28 [shadi]
...could help improve specific issues
13:26:44 [shadi]
SH: have not yet heard from the students
13:26:48 [shadi]
13:27:05 [janina]
q+ to ask about individual vs community context issues
13:27:10 [shadi]
...expect final report in about two months
13:28:03 [scott_h]
13:28:10 [shadi]
ack shadi
13:28:25 [Judy]
scribe: judy
13:28:27 [janina]
scribe: janina
13:28:45 [Judy]
shadi: thanks for that great presentation Scott, very helpful overview.
13:28:54 [janina]
sa: Interesting report on what monitoring offers
13:30:20 [janina]
sa: Tieing gps into data collection helped identify things like broken infrastructure in the environment
13:31:19 [janina]
sa: Notes it's not always straight forward to control devices from a smart device
13:31:56 [janina]
sh: Notes Shadi's paper turned up in the research
13:31:56 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
13:32:19 [shadi]
sh: options not mutually exclusive but alternative options
13:32:47 [shadi]
...for example, only interface to a toaster should not be an app
13:33:18 [shadi]
...but true that many current built-in interface do not tend to be accessible
13:33:30 [shadi]
ack jan
13:33:30 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to ask about individual vs community context issues
13:34:05 [shadi]
js: not sure i expect much from certain vendors
13:34:36 [shadi]
...some operating systems still have little accessibility support
13:35:31 [shadi]
js: voice interfaces are ok when you're the only one in the room
13:35:46 [shadi]
...otherwise can get quite difficult
13:36:45 [shadi]
sh: Google Home can identify different voices
13:37:00 [shadi]
...but the problem of noise and interference still persists
13:37:19 [shadi]
...valid concern, also about distration
13:37:35 [shadi]
13:37:52 [shadi]
...could have noise outweighing the problem
13:38:38 [shadi]
sh: funny interaction between Google Home and Alexa
13:39:25 [shadi]
js: notion of people being more polite through IoT is interesting
13:39:37 [shadi]
...would mean impact on communication
13:39:50 [Judy]
13:39:56 [shadi]
...has accessibility implications
13:40:12 [shadi]
sh: didn't think about the accessibility implication
13:40:27 [janina]
13:40:27 [shadi]
...but the issue of rudeness is quite interesting
13:40:32 [shadi]
ack jud
13:40:49 [shadi]
jb: had heard the opposite effect on politeness
13:41:10 [shadi]
...people getting used to demanding and commanding
13:42:08 [Judy]
13:42:57 [shadi]
jw: seems overly optimistic to expect every UI developer will meet the needs of all users equally well
13:43:00 [shadi]
13:43:32 [shadi]
...users need to select the products that best match their needs
13:43:51 [shadi]
...but the central issue of interoperability is important
13:44:11 [janina]
The device supporting both Amazon and Google interfacing is:
13:44:13 [janina]
13:44:15 [shadi]
...another point that came up is natural language interface
13:45:09 [shadi]
...not really specific to IoT but new trend to consider
13:45:55 [shadi]
q+ to talk about consistent accessible user interfaces
13:46:17 [shadi]
...also security and privacy issues, especially around health monitoring
13:46:26 [janina]
13:47:08 [shadi]
...finally, support in the education space
13:47:27 [shadi]
...for example to get live transcripts through an online servicw
13:47:38 [shadi]
13:47:56 [shadi]
ack me
13:47:56 [Zakim]
shadi, you wanted to talk about consistent accessible user interfaces
13:48:00 [janina]
scribe: janina
13:48:38 [janina]
sa: Noting no matter how accessible UI, some users will have problems.
13:49:22 [janina]
sa: Just like we demand buildings be consistently accessible planet wide, we should demand from UI
13:49:27 [scott_h]
13:49:41 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
13:50:32 [shadi]
jw: may be physical and environmental limitation to the degree of accessibility of the built-in UIs
13:50:41 [shadi]
ack sco
13:51:52 [shadi]
sh: Google Home or Alexa can play different formats, not only text
13:52:10 [shadi]
...for example, they can play a podcast instead of reading the news headlines
13:52:27 [shadi]
...or play a sound to explain the sound of a train, when asked
13:52:40 [shadi] an additional dimension
13:53:40 [shadi]
jw: do we need to separate things out?
13:54:02 [shadi]
...for example voice-operated systems are separable from IoT
13:54:34 [janina]
scribe: janina
13:54:49 [janina]
sa: Recalling earlier desire to evolve use cases. Wondering what the next steps are
13:55:02 [janina]
sa: Not heard new use case categories so far in this discussion
13:55:27 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
13:55:47 [shadi]
sh: think everything so far can fit into the existing categories
13:56:10 [shadi] things might turn out in the next phase of the interviews
13:58:15 [shadi]
jw: suggest follow-up call after digesting this input
13:58:42 [shadi]
jb: think there may be a few points to capture and not lose the momentum
13:58:58 [shadi]
sh: can send my notes to the list, and can continue by email
14:00:19 [shadi]
jw: interplay between voice computing and IoT
14:00:42 [shadi] of interoperability
14:00:48 [shadi]
14:01:07 [shadi]
...privacy and security issues
14:01:35 [jasonjgw]
14:02:28 [shadi]
sh: will share the report as soon as it is available
14:03:00 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:03:00 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Miscellaneous updates and discussion" taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:03:32 [shadi]
jw: js and i are working on input to the web authentication group
14:03:46 [shadi]
...some progress there
14:05:45 [jasonjgw]
zakim, bye
14:05:45 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, Judy, scott_h
14:05:45 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rqtf
14:05:56 [jasonjgw]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jasonjgw
14:07:10 [jasonjgw]
rrsagent, bye
14:07:10 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items