IRC log of tt on 2017-06-22

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 22 June 2017
14:01:22 [nigel]
Present: Nigel
14:01:23 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
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Regrets: Glenn
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scribe: nigel
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Present+ Thierry
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Present+ Pierre
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Present+ Mike
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Present+ Andreas
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Topic: This meeting
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Nigel: In today's momentous meeting we will be looking at IMSC 1.0.1 CR publication
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.. and TTML2 WR publication.
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14:06:04 [nigel]
.. Before we get on to agenda topics, looking ahead to July's meetings, is everyone ok if
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.. I keep them at 2 hours and hopefully we use less?
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Andreas: In general I can only attend for 1 hour.
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Nigel: I'll take the general silence as a Yes.
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Present+ Dae
14:07:39 [nigel]
Nigel: Back to the agenda for today, there's a bit on TPAC. Any other points to make sure
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.. we cover?
14:07:57 [nigel]
Dae: I have a couple of TTML2 issues we're waiting for r12a for. I don't know how long
14:08:03 [nigel]
.. we give him before we just move forward.
14:08:15 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay let's come to those in the TTML agenda item.
14:10:17 [nigel]
Thierry: Regarding WebVTT we need some coordination and I'd really like David and Simon
14:10:20 [nigel]
.. to attend a meeting.
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group: no other business
14:10:49 [nigel]
Topic: TPAC 2017
14:11:03 [nigel]
Nigel: Just wanted to alert everyone that if they need to book hotel rooms the Hyatt is
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.. already out of rooms for some nights so book quickly to take advantage of the lower rates.
14:12:15 [nigel]
Nigel: I haven't managed to pull together the stuff for action-497 so it's still on my list of
14:12:17 [nigel]
.. things to do.
14:12:37 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC
14:13:22 [nigel]
Nigel: What's the status on our issues?
14:13:48 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/246 SDP-US is listed as a normative reference, but it is not #246
14:14:05 [nigel]
Pierre: This has a PR that has been open for a week and has been iterated, and approved
14:15:49 [nigel]
.. by Andreas and Nigel. I think it should be good for Mike too.
14:15:57 [nigel]
Mike: I'll approve that right now.
14:16:30 [nigel]
Pierre: I guess we could merge that today?
14:16:43 [nigel]
Nigel: Assuming Mike approves it, there are no objections so I think we can go ahead and
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.. merge that.
14:17:09 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/244 Add diff from IMSC 1.0.0 and update substantive-changes-summary.txt #244
14:17:15 [nigel]
Pierre: This one is for me to do at the last minute.
14:17:33 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/241 Requirement to support certain Code Point #241
14:17:50 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/237 Why exclude hebrew and arabic proportional reference fonts? #237
14:17:57 [nigel]
Pierre: Those are both addressed by #245
14:18:10 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/245 Clarified the requirement for processors to implement reference fonts #245
14:18:26 [nigel]
Nigel: That has approvals and comments.
14:18:39 [nigel]
Pierre: The approval that is missing is from r12a but since the change I made is exactly
14:18:50 [nigel]
.. the same wording as his suggestion I assume that resolves the issue for him.
14:19:25 [nigel]
.. That's been open for 13 days now.
14:19:39 [nigel]
.. Again nobody else has voiced any concern or questions or comments.
14:20:31 [nigel]
.. I think we should assume it satisfies Richard's comments and it is not normative.
14:20:41 [nigel]
.. The risk of merging this is very low, and any other comments can be dealt with editorially.
14:20:52 [nigel]
Nigel: Everyone happy to merge this?
14:20:55 [nigel]
Andreas: Yes
14:21:00 [nigel]
Pierre: I'll merge that too.
14:21:32 [nigel]
Pierre: The next two are #227 and #228 which have been merged but the tickets are open
14:21:37 [nigel]
.. until we get confirmation from ARIB.
14:21:48 [nigel]
Nigel: Thierry we sent the message to ARIB didn't we?
14:21:51 [nigel]
Thierry: Yes we did.
14:22:06 [nigel]
.. We gave them until the end of June.
14:22:23 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/235 imsc1-all.xsd has a bad pointer for SMPTE-TT schemas #235
14:23:03 [nigel]
Pierre: There was a message to the reflector 4 minutes ago. SMPTE has somehow found
14:23:23 [nigel]
.. the XSD and sent us a link. So I'll pull that and make sure that the IMSC 1 links point to it.
14:25:17 [nigel]
Nigel: Is this something we need to fix by erratum to IMSC1 as well as including in 1.0.1?
14:25:25 [nigel]
Pierre: Yes
14:25:41 [nigel]
Mike: I thought we were just going to do WG Consensus to update the schemas.
14:25:48 [nigel]
Nigel: Oh yes it is not normative, thanks for the reminder.
14:27:39 [nigel]
Mike: I think you can just add it to the existing schema.
14:27:52 [nigel]
Nigel: I've added a comment on it with a link to the archived liaison at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Jun/0084.html
14:28:02 [nigel]
Pierre: I will update this and work with Thierry to get it published.
14:28:23 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/243 Recommended character sets considered harmful #243
14:28:34 [nigel]
Pierre: I think this is just a misunderstanding and Addison never followed up.
14:30:10 [nigel]
.. The last comment was by me 19 days ago and Addison didn't respond.
14:31:16 [nigel]
Nigel: I've pinged him on the issue. I think if there's no update on this by Monday
14:31:30 [nigel]
.. morning US time then we could reasonably close this with no further action.
14:32:24 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/236 Should the character sets be minimum *font* requirements? #236
14:32:39 [nigel]
Pierre: This started as a comment on the character sets being minimum font requirements.
14:33:03 [nigel]
.. The thread went a little bit everywhere. In IMSC 1 the recommended character set is
14:33:20 [nigel]
.. stated as an authoring requirement rather than a processing requirement. Then we
14:33:35 [nigel]
.. explored why we have reference fonts, why we have recommended character sets, and
14:34:03 [nigel]
.. I think I tried to answer all r12a's questions and haven't heard back from him. I haven't
14:34:50 [nigel]
.. seen that anything is broken. I've tried to answer all the questions.
14:34:58 [nigel]
Nigel: Is it also related to pull request #245?
14:35:02 [nigel]
Pierre: Maybe, I don't know.
14:36:29 [nigel]
Nigel: I think you've answered the original question in the issue.
14:39:26 [nigel]
.. I've added a comment on the issue, pinging r12a and asking for a response by Monday
14:39:40 [nigel]
.. in anticipation of closing the issue by next week's meeting.
14:40:33 [nigel]
Nigel: Ok so where are we in terms of publishing this as a CR?
14:40:40 [nigel]
Pierre: Next week is a good target.
14:41:15 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes, if we can, or if not then the following week.
14:42:09 [nigel]
Thierry: How do you plan this CR publication? We need to have a Director call, I need to
14:42:20 [nigel]
.. write the transition request for this call, and we need also to have the DIsposition of
14:42:31 [nigel]
.. Comments, which I have been tracking in a wiki page. So we have 2 comments that are
14:42:52 [nigel]
.. still pending, on #236 and #243 because they are from external groups. We could have
14:43:02 [nigel]
.. tried to avoid the Director's call but because we have an objection from Glenn about
14:44:19 [nigel]
.. the version number we should discuss this while entering into CR.
14:46:29 [nigel]
Nigel: I'm happy to simply take that to the Director and be transparent about the
14:46:42 [nigel]
.. group's decision and its rationale and Glenn's objection.
14:47:01 [nigel]
.. Can I check: if the Director hypothetically said we must call this v1.1 would anyone
14:47:09 [nigel]
.. want me to bring that back for the group to consider?
14:47:18 [nigel]
Pierre: Yes, I would object to publishing with v1.1.
14:47:30 [nigel]
Thierry: This objection needs to be included in the transition request.
14:47:44 [nigel]
Nigel: We need so we need some wording to go in the transition request.
14:48:27 [nigel]
.. Does anyone else want to draft that wording about the objection, otherwise I'll do it?
14:48:33 [nigel]
group: [nobody]
14:48:45 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay then I will draft the objection text and circulate it for review.
14:48:52 [nigel]
Thierry: When can we have a CR-ready draft?
14:49:03 [nigel]
Pierre: Monday, assuming no changes are needed.
14:49:21 [nigel]
Thierry: We need a CR ending date. Maybe target 1 month - say 6th August?
14:49:28 [nigel]
Pierre: Alright.
14:49:32 [nigel]
Nigel: 6th August should work.
14:49:36 [nigel]
Pierre: Noted.
14:50:33 [nigel]
Nigel: I note that for the objection text there are people on this call who would be interested
14:50:46 [nigel]
.. in reviewing it but also we should get Glenn's approval on that wording too.
14:51:11 [nigel]
Nigel: I will also double check with Glenn that his objection still stands.
14:52:43 [nigel]
Thierry: Then we have a Director's call to arrange - next week will be difficult with the W3C team
14:52:54 [nigel]
.. because it is geek week but we can try.
14:53:28 [nigel]
Nigel: Given we haven't made the resolution to publish yet, it is more likely going to be
14:53:32 [nigel]
.. the following week isn't it?
14:53:37 [nigel]
Thierry: Okay, I think that's better.
14:54:12 [nigel]
.. I will check his availability so we can pencil in a meeting early to mid the week after next.
14:54:32 [nigel]
.. I will propose some different slots and see what works for everybody.
14:54:43 [nigel]
Nigel: Typically we would have me as Chair, Thierry and Pierre on the call.
14:55:22 [nigel]
Thierry: I guess this current time is good for everyone, as a rule?
14:55:27 [nigel]
Pierre: Yes in general
14:55:35 [nigel]
Nigel: And for me too, depending the particular day.
14:57:34 [nigel]
Topic: TTML
14:57:42 [nigel]
Nigel: Dae you said there were some issues to review?
14:57:57 [nigel]
Dae: Yes, the 2 on IMSC we already covered and the 7 open i18n-comment ones for which
14:58:31 [nigel]
.. we are awaiting feedback from Richard and/or Addison.
14:59:41 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/271 Metadata examples do not include xml:lang (editorial) #271
15:00:03 [nigel]
Nigel: The last comment here was 28 days ago and Glenn asked Addison for his confirmation
15:00:08 [nigel]
.. that the fix works for him.
15:00:45 [nigel]
Nigel: I think for these and the IMSC issues I will send a private message to Addison
15:01:14 [nigel]
Nigel: and Richard just asking them to confirm the issues work for them or proposing
15:01:18 [nigel]
.. something different.
15:01:32 [nigel]
Pierre: We need to work live with them, we don't have time to iterate over a 2 week period
15:01:34 [nigel]
.. for these.
15:01:37 [nigel]
Nigel: yes.
15:03:22 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/274 Add an illustration of pinyin for ruby align #274
15:03:34 [nigel]
Dae: There was some back and forth on this, and we ended up saying an illustration might
15:04:26 [nigel]
.. be all that is needed. I could do it, but it might still take a while for Richard to respond.
15:04:42 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/258 How to space base characters where shiftRuby kicks in for group ruby? #258
15:07:31 [nigel]
Mike: [question about process and how much time people have to respond]
15:07:44 [nigel]
Nigel: I will mention to Richard and Addison that we plan to publish TTML2 by end of June
15:08:02 [nigel]
.. so any responses would ideally be received by then, otherwise they will have to get
15:08:06 [nigel]
.. dealt with before we move to CR.
15:08:32 [nigel]
Nigel: On #258 you are suggesting we can close the issue with no more change.
15:08:46 [nigel]
Dae: Right, I think Richard is suggesting fine grained control for Japanese that no subtitler
15:08:54 [nigel]
.. would ever use, so it is not needed for subtitling.
15:09:33 [nigel]
Nigel: OK I will send that message, and I think that's all we can do for now on the i18n issues.
15:10:19 [nigel]
.. Now last week we made a decision to merge the PRs so there would be an ED for review
15:10:34 [nigel]
.. and since then there is one new pull request for audio feature designators, and I've asked
15:10:38 [nigel]
.. for a missing bit to be added.
15:11:16 [nigel]
.. The idea is that everyone should review the ED prior to publishing the WD by next week's meeting.
15:11:21 [nigel]
.. Are there any comments on that?
15:11:28 [nigel]
group: [silence]
15:14:20 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay then I think we can close for today, since there are no more points on our agenda.
15:14:26 [nigel]
.. Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting]
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
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s/publishing with v1.1/publishing as v1.1
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
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ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
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