IRC log of tt on 2017-06-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:47 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #tt

14:00:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-irc

14:00:49 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:00:49 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tt

14:00:51 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be TTML

14:00:51 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot

14:00:52 [trackbot]

Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

14:00:52 [trackbot]

Date: 22 June 2017

14:01:22 [nigel]

Present: Nigel

14:01:23 [nigel]

Chair: Nigel

14:01:26 [tmichel]

tmichel has joined #tt

14:01:26 [nigel]

Regrets: Glenn

14:01:32 [nigel]

scribe: nigel

14:02:07 [nigel]

Present+ Thierry

14:03:09 [nigel]

Present+ Pierre

14:03:37 [nigel]

Present+ Mike

14:03:41 [mike]

mike has joined #tt

14:04:40 [nigel]

Present+ Andreas

14:04:50 [nigel]

Topic: This meeting

14:05:13 [nigel]

Nigel: In today's momentous meeting we will be looking at IMSC 1.0.1 CR publication

14:05:22 [nigel]

.. and TTML2 WR publication.

14:05:32 [dae]

dae has joined #tt

14:06:04 [nigel]

.. Before we get on to agenda topics, looking ahead to July's meetings, is everyone ok if

14:06:10 [nigel]

.. I keep them at 2 hours and hopefully we use less?

14:06:19 [nigel]

Andreas: In general I can only attend for 1 hour.

14:06:22 [atai]

atai has joined #tt

14:06:32 [nigel]

Nigel: I'll take the general silence as a Yes.

14:06:51 [nigel]

Present+ Dae

14:07:39 [nigel]

Nigel: Back to the agenda for today, there's a bit on TPAC. Any other points to make sure

14:07:41 [nigel]

.. we cover?

14:07:57 [nigel]

Dae: I have a couple of TTML2 issues we're waiting for r12a for. I don't know how long

14:08:03 [nigel]

.. we give him before we just move forward.

14:08:15 [nigel]

Nigel: Okay let's come to those in the TTML agenda item.

14:10:17 [nigel]

Thierry: Regarding WebVTT we need some coordination and I'd really like David and Simon

14:10:20 [nigel]

.. to attend a meeting.

14:10:43 [nigel]

group: no other business

14:10:49 [nigel]

Topic: TPAC 2017

14:11:03 [nigel]

Nigel: Just wanted to alert everyone that if they need to book hotel rooms the Hyatt is

14:11:26 [nigel]

.. already out of rooms for some nights so book quickly to take advantage of the lower rates.

14:12:15 [nigel]

Nigel: I haven't managed to pull together the stuff for action-497 so it's still on my list of

14:12:17 [nigel]

.. things to do.

14:12:37 [nigel]

Topic: IMSC

14:13:22 [nigel]

Nigel: What's the status on our issues?

14:13:48 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/246 SDP-US is listed as a normative reference, but it is not #246

14:14:05 [nigel]

Pierre: This has a PR that has been open for a week and has been iterated, and approved

14:15:49 [nigel]

.. by Andreas and Nigel. I think it should be good for Mike too.

14:15:57 [nigel]

Mike: I'll approve that right now.

14:16:30 [nigel]

Pierre: I guess we could merge that today?

14:16:43 [nigel]

Nigel: Assuming Mike approves it, there are no objections so I think we can go ahead and

14:16:50 [nigel]

.. merge that.

14:17:09 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/244 Add diff from IMSC 1.0.0 and update substantive-changes-summary.txt #244

14:17:15 [nigel]

Pierre: This one is for me to do at the last minute.

14:17:33 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/241 Requirement to support certain Code Point #241

14:17:50 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/237 Why exclude hebrew and arabic proportional reference fonts? #237

14:17:57 [nigel]

Pierre: Those are both addressed by #245

14:18:10 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/245 Clarified the requirement for processors to implement reference fonts #245

14:18:26 [nigel]

Nigel: That has approvals and comments.

14:18:39 [nigel]

Pierre: The approval that is missing is from r12a but since the change I made is exactly

14:18:50 [nigel]

.. the same wording as his suggestion I assume that resolves the issue for him.

14:19:25 [nigel]

.. That's been open for 13 days now.

14:19:39 [nigel]

.. Again nobody else has voiced any concern or questions or comments.

14:20:31 [nigel]

.. I think we should assume it satisfies Richard's comments and it is not normative.

14:20:41 [nigel]

.. The risk of merging this is very low, and any other comments can be dealt with editorially.

14:20:52 [nigel]

Nigel: Everyone happy to merge this?

14:20:55 [nigel]

Andreas: Yes

14:21:00 [nigel]

Pierre: I'll merge that too.

14:21:32 [nigel]

Pierre: The next two are #227 and #228 which have been merged but the tickets are open

14:21:37 [nigel]

.. until we get confirmation from ARIB.

14:21:48 [nigel]

Nigel: Thierry we sent the message to ARIB didn't we?

14:21:51 [nigel]

Thierry: Yes we did.

14:22:06 [nigel]

.. We gave them until the end of June.

14:22:23 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/235 imsc1-all.xsd has a bad pointer for SMPTE-TT schemas #235

14:23:03 [nigel]

Pierre: There was a message to the reflector 4 minutes ago. SMPTE has somehow found

14:23:23 [nigel]

.. the XSD and sent us a link. So I'll pull that and make sure that the IMSC 1 links point to it.

14:25:17 [nigel]

Nigel: Is this something we need to fix by erratum to IMSC1 as well as including in 1.0.1?

14:25:25 [nigel]

Pierre: Yes

14:25:41 [nigel]

Mike: I thought we were just going to do WG Consensus to update the schemas.

14:25:48 [nigel]

Nigel: Oh yes it is not normative, thanks for the reminder.

14:27:39 [nigel]

Mike: I think you can just add it to the existing schema.

14:27:52 [nigel]

Nigel: I've added a comment on it with a link to the archived liaison at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Jun/0084.html

14:28:02 [nigel]

Pierre: I will update this and work with Thierry to get it published.

14:28:23 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/243 Recommended character sets considered harmful #243

14:28:34 [nigel]

Pierre: I think this is just a misunderstanding and Addison never followed up.

14:30:10 [nigel]

.. The last comment was by me 19 days ago and Addison didn't respond.

14:31:16 [nigel]

Nigel: I've pinged him on the issue. I think if there's no update on this by Monday

14:31:30 [nigel]

.. morning US time then we could reasonably close this with no further action.

14:32:24 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/236 Should the character sets be minimum *font* requirements? #236

14:32:39 [nigel]

Pierre: This started as a comment on the character sets being minimum font requirements.

14:33:03 [nigel]

.. The thread went a little bit everywhere. In IMSC 1 the recommended character set is

14:33:20 [nigel]

.. stated as an authoring requirement rather than a processing requirement. Then we

14:33:35 [nigel]

.. explored why we have reference fonts, why we have recommended character sets, and

14:34:03 [nigel]

.. I think I tried to answer all r12a's questions and haven't heard back from him. I haven't

14:34:50 [nigel]

.. seen that anything is broken. I've tried to answer all the questions.

14:34:58 [nigel]

Nigel: Is it also related to pull request #245?

14:35:02 [nigel]

Pierre: Maybe, I don't know.

14:36:29 [nigel]

Nigel: I think you've answered the original question in the issue.

14:39:26 [nigel]

.. I've added a comment on the issue, pinging r12a and asking for a response by Monday

14:39:40 [nigel]

.. in anticipation of closing the issue by next week's meeting.

14:40:33 [nigel]

Nigel: Ok so where are we in terms of publishing this as a CR?

14:40:40 [nigel]

Pierre: Next week is a good target.

14:41:15 [nigel]

Nigel: Yes, if we can, or if not then the following week.

14:42:09 [nigel]

Thierry: How do you plan this CR publication? We need to have a Director call, I need to

14:42:20 [nigel]

.. write the transition request for this call, and we need also to have the DIsposition of

14:42:31 [nigel]

.. Comments, which I have been tracking in a wiki page. So we have 2 comments that are

14:42:52 [nigel]

.. still pending, on #236 and #243 because they are from external groups. We could have

14:43:02 [nigel]

.. tried to avoid the Director's call but because we have an objection from Glenn about

14:44:19 [nigel]

.. the version number we should discuss this while entering into CR.

14:46:29 [nigel]

Nigel: I'm happy to simply take that to the Director and be transparent about the

14:46:42 [nigel]

.. group's decision and its rationale and Glenn's objection.

14:47:01 [nigel]

.. Can I check: if the Director hypothetically said we must call this v1.1 would anyone

14:47:09 [nigel]

.. want me to bring that back for the group to consider?

14:47:18 [nigel]

Pierre: Yes, I would object to publishing with v1.1.

14:47:30 [nigel]

Thierry: This objection needs to be included in the transition request.

14:47:44 [nigel]

Nigel: We need so we need some wording to go in the transition request.

14:48:27 [nigel]

.. Does anyone else want to draft that wording about the objection, otherwise I'll do it?

14:48:33 [nigel]

group: [nobody]

14:48:45 [nigel]

Nigel: Okay then I will draft the objection text and circulate it for review.

14:48:52 [nigel]

Thierry: When can we have a CR-ready draft?

14:49:03 [nigel]

Pierre: Monday, assuming no changes are needed.

14:49:21 [nigel]

Thierry: We need a CR ending date. Maybe target 1 month - say 6th August?

14:49:28 [nigel]

Pierre: Alright.

14:49:32 [nigel]

Nigel: 6th August should work.

14:49:36 [nigel]

Pierre: Noted.

14:50:33 [nigel]

Nigel: I note that for the objection text there are people on this call who would be interested

14:50:46 [nigel]

.. in reviewing it but also we should get Glenn's approval on that wording too.

14:51:11 [nigel]

Nigel: I will also double check with Glenn that his objection still stands.

14:52:43 [nigel]

Thierry: Then we have a Director's call to arrange - next week will be difficult with the W3C team

14:52:54 [nigel]

.. because it is geek week but we can try.

14:53:28 [nigel]

Nigel: Given we haven't made the resolution to publish yet, it is more likely going to be

14:53:32 [nigel]

.. the following week isn't it?

14:53:37 [nigel]

Thierry: Okay, I think that's better.

14:54:12 [nigel]

.. I will check his availability so we can pencil in a meeting early to mid the week after next.

14:54:32 [nigel]

.. I will propose some different slots and see what works for everybody.

14:54:43 [nigel]

Nigel: Typically we would have me as Chair, Thierry and Pierre on the call.

14:55:22 [nigel]

Thierry: I guess this current time is good for everyone, as a rule?

14:55:27 [nigel]

Pierre: Yes in general

14:55:35 [nigel]

Nigel: And for me too, depending the particular day.

14:57:34 [nigel]

Topic: TTML

14:57:42 [nigel]

Nigel: Dae you said there were some issues to review?

14:57:57 [nigel]

Dae: Yes, the 2 on IMSC we already covered and the 7 open i18n-comment ones for which

14:58:31 [nigel]

.. we are awaiting feedback from Richard and/or Addison.

14:59:41 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/271 Metadata examples do not include xml:lang (editorial) #271

15:00:03 [nigel]

Nigel: The last comment here was 28 days ago and Glenn asked Addison for his confirmation

15:00:08 [nigel]

.. that the fix works for him.

15:00:45 [nigel]

Nigel: I think for these and the IMSC issues I will send a private message to Addison

15:01:14 [nigel]

Nigel: and Richard just asking them to confirm the issues work for them or proposing

15:01:18 [nigel]

.. something different.

15:01:32 [nigel]

Pierre: We need to work live with them, we don't have time to iterate over a 2 week period

15:01:34 [nigel]

.. for these.

15:01:37 [nigel]

Nigel: yes.

15:03:22 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/274 Add an illustration of pinyin for ruby align #274

15:03:34 [nigel]

Dae: There was some back and forth on this, and we ended up saying an illustration might

15:04:26 [nigel]

.. be all that is needed. I could do it, but it might still take a while for Richard to respond.

15:04:42 [nigel]

-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/258 How to space base characters where shiftRuby kicks in for group ruby? #258

15:07:31 [nigel]

Mike: [question about process and how much time people have to respond]

15:07:44 [nigel]

Nigel: I will mention to Richard and Addison that we plan to publish TTML2 by end of June

15:08:02 [nigel]

.. so any responses would ideally be received by then, otherwise they will have to get

15:08:06 [nigel]

.. dealt with before we move to CR.

15:08:32 [nigel]

Nigel: On #258 you are suggesting we can close the issue with no more change.

15:08:46 [nigel]

Dae: Right, I think Richard is suggesting fine grained control for Japanese that no subtitler

15:08:54 [nigel]

.. would ever use, so it is not needed for subtitling.

15:09:33 [nigel]

Nigel: OK I will send that message, and I think that's all we can do for now on the i18n issues.

15:10:19 [nigel]

.. Now last week we made a decision to merge the PRs so there would be an ED for review

15:10:34 [nigel]

.. and since then there is one new pull request for audio feature designators, and I've asked

15:10:38 [nigel]

.. for a missing bit to be added.

15:11:16 [nigel]

.. The idea is that everyone should review the ED prior to publishing the WD by next week's meeting.

15:11:21 [nigel]

.. Are there any comments on that?

15:11:28 [nigel]

group: [silence]

15:14:20 [nigel]

Nigel: Okay then I think we can close for today, since there are no more points on our agenda.

15:14:26 [nigel]

.. Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting]

15:14:45 [nigel]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:14:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel

15:18:40 [nigel]

s/publishing with v1.1/publishing as v1.1

15:19:31 [nigel]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:19:31 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel

15:25:53 [nigel]

ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics

15:25:54 [nigel]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:25:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/22-tt-minutes.html nigel

16:22:58 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tt