14:13:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:13:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/08-lvtf-irc
14:13:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:13:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:13:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:13:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:13:46 <trackbot> Date: 08 June 2017
14:13:50 <allanj> chair: jim
14:14:02 <allanj> regrets: Erich
14:17:00 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 77 Resize Content (1-2 minutes
14:17:02 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG - for sure) - need anything Glenda?
14:17:03 <allanj> Agenda+ adapting text - add Font back in discussion
14:17:05 <allanj> Agenda+ icon font technique
14:17:07 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%Dimg
14:51:05 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
14:54:00 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
14:56:04 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
15:03:08 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #lvtf
15:04:40 <Glenda> Glenda has joined #lvtf
15:06:54 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
15:07:02 <steverep> present+steverep
15:07:11 <alastairc> present+ alastairc
15:07:31 <laura> present+ Laura
15:10:56 <JohnRochford> present+ JohnRochford
15:10:59 <laura> Scribe: Laura
15:11:06 <allanj> present+ jim
15:11:12 <shawn> present+
15:11:20 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:11:20 <Zakim> Present: Jim, Erich, Shawn, ScottM, steverep, Laura, Glenda, Wayne, alastairc, JohnRochford
15:11:40 <allanj> zakim, agenda:
15:11:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda:', allanj
15:11:42 <wayne> wayne has joined #lvtf
15:11:43 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
15:11:43 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:11:44 <Zakim> 1. Issue 77 Resize Content (1-2 minutes [from allanj]
15:11:44 <Zakim> 2. Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG - for sure) - need anything Glenda? [from allanj]
15:11:44 <Zakim> 3. adapting text - add Font back in discussion [from allanj]
15:11:44 <Zakim> 4. icon font technique [from allanj]
15:11:45 <shawn> present+ AlastairC
15:11:55 <allanj> zakim, open item 1
15:11:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Issue 77 Resize Content (1-2 minutes" taken up [from allanj]
15:11:59 <wayne> present+ wayne
15:12:25 <laura> Jim: Zoom content is going to CFC
15:12:33 <shawn> Present: Jim, Shawn, ScottM, steverep, Laura, Glenda, Wayne, alastairc, JohnRochford
15:12:45 <laura> AC: not sure when. Maybe soon.
15:13:17 <allanj> zakim, next item
15:13:17 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG - for sure) - need anything Glenda?" taken up [from allanj]
15:13:47 <laura> Jim: Should be on Tuesday.
15:14:00 <laura> …Filed bugs on all the browsers.
15:14:16 <laura> …Google has been very active. May fix it.
15:14:32 <laura> …we will chip awy where we can.
15:15:03 <laura> …increased disscussion on ig list and webAIM
15:15:25 <laura> Steve: bugs for focus indicators?
15:15:35 <laura> Jim: not yet.
15:15:58 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-SC/luminosity-form-controls.html
15:16:20 <laura> …maybe make a separate page for that?
15:16:42 <laura> Steve: should be separate.
15:17:53 <laura> Jim: With chrome has been explaining how things should work.
15:18:15 <allanj> Zakim, close item 1
15:18:15 <Zakim> agendum 1, Issue 77 Resize Content (1-2 minutes, closed
15:18:16 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:16 <Zakim> 2. Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG - for sure) - need anything Glenda? [from allanj]
15:18:19 <allanj> Zakim, close item 2
15:18:19 <Zakim> agendum 2, Issue 10 Interface control Contrast (coming up next week on AG - for sure) - need anything Glenda?, closed
15:18:22 <laura> …Glenda, if you need anything let us know.
15:18:22 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:22 <Zakim> 3. adapting text - add Font back in discussion [from allanj]
15:18:35 <allanj> zakim, next item
15:18:35 <Zakim> agendum 3. "adapting text - add Font back in discussion" taken up [from allanj]
15:19:31 <laura> Jim: people have been writing on this topic.
15:20:07 <laura> AC: Come at the problem from another point of view though sizing.
15:20:23 <laura> …vertical and horizontal.
15:20:29 <allanj> SC - Adapting text:
15:20:33 <allanj> SC Text
15:20:35 <allanj> If the technologies being used allow the user agent to adapt style properties of text, then no loss of essential content or functionality occurs by adapting all of the following:
15:20:36 <allanj> line spacing (leading) to at least 1.5
15:20:38 <allanj> letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 em
15:20:39 <allanj> word spacing to at least 0.16 em
15:20:41 <allanj> Note: Examples of text which are typically not affected by style properties are open captions and images of text, which are not expected to adapt.
15:20:42 <allanj> Editor's note: The Working Group seeks to to include overriding text color, background color, and font-family as part of this SC, but is not yet able to identify a way to do so that is sufficiently testable.
15:20:43 <alastairc> https://alastairc.ac/tests/letter-spacing.html
15:20:45 <laura> …letter spacing is our best bet.
15:21:36 <allanj> .1em letter spacing is about 23% horizontal size increase
15:22:00 <laura> …if we go  above that 23% things will break.
15:22:11 <JohnRochford> q+
15:22:21 <laura> …then maybe reduce. it.
15:22:32 <wayne> q+
15:22:53 <laura> John: can the SC limit for body text?
15:23:03 <laura> AC: that is an option.
15:23:12 <allanj> ack j
15:23:13 <JohnRochford> q-
15:23:14 <wayne> Letter Spacing + 1/5(word spacing)+fontwidth =.1
15:23:17 <allanj> ack w
15:23:48 <laura> wayne: thinking of a formula. Letter Spacing + 1/5(word spacing)+fontwidth =.1
15:24:16 <laura> …may have stated 1.2 too strongly.
15:24:28 <laura> …may be too big.
15:24:52 <laura> AC: CSS units are EMs
15:25:37 <laura> …do need rationale. Limit is the difficulty it would cause.
15:26:13 <laura> wayne: wide fonts are a problem
15:26:26 <steverep> q+
15:27:52 <allanj> ack st
15:28:05 <laura> steve: trying to understand.
15:29:15 <laura> …no idea what the user starts with.
15:29:56 <laura> …simplest is to spec a font.
15:30:17 <laura> AC: we are setting a benchmark.
15:31:13 <shawn> q+
15:31:20 <allanj> wd: need to bring font bullet back
15:31:20 <laura> I still don't know how bringing the font bullet back with the proposed metrics would help eliminate conflict pairs in font families.
15:31:29 <laura> Users can override font family.
15:31:42 <laura> Do we really want to try to bring back the font bullet?
15:32:19 <wayne> Use the language mean character size.
15:32:24 <shawn> q+ to say Understanding should make clear that user ability to change font and it works is bottom line assumption. (even though font is not specifically included in SC wordinmg)
15:32:29 <shawn> ack me
15:32:29 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say Understanding should make clear that user ability to change font and it works is bottom line assumption. (even though font is not specifically included in
15:32:32 <Zakim> ... SC wordinmg)
15:32:37 <allanj> ack sh
15:32:50 <laura> Shawn: users can change fonts.
15:33:10 <laura> …make it clear in the understanding doc.
15:33:48 <laura> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/adapting-text_ISSUE-74-78-79/understanding/21/adapting-text.html
15:33:58 <allanj> Shawn: Understanding document should make clear that user ability to change font and it works is bottom line assumption. (even though font is not specifically included in SC wording)
15:34:15 <alastairc> NB: The AG meeting is starting
15:34:28 <laura> wayne: make tables  and compute the numbers.
15:34:48 <laura> …tables of tolerance.
15:35:20 <laura> jim: users can change fonts.
15:35:44 <laura> jim: authors can do anything about it.
15:36:05 <shawn> what about technologies other than html & browsers :(
15:36:08 <allanj> s/authors can/authors can't/
15:36:52 <laura> jim: font cant be blocked by the author.
15:38:01 <laura> ac: makes it hugely more complicated to have the bullet.
15:38:28 <laura> wayne: I’ll loose this one this time.
15:38:28 <steverep> q+
15:38:41 <laura> jim: we have silver coming up.
15:38:46 <allanj> ack st
15:39:09 <laura> steve: current metics are not being opposed.
15:39:34 <laura> …we have the editors note. Let’s try to get the SC in.
15:40:15 <laura> Jim: wayne has done incredible work.
15:41:24 <laura> Editor's note: The Working Group seeks to to include overriding text color, background color, and font-family as part of this SC, but is not yet able to identify a way to do so that is sufficiently testable.
15:42:03 <alastairc> Wayne: Chrome's high contrast extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/high-contrast/djcfdncoelnlbldjfhinnjlhdjlikmph?hl=en
15:42:22 <laura> jim: we will come back to color.
15:43:09 <allanj> laura: still need a definition for "style properties"
15:44:11 <allanj> laura will work on CfC for Adapting Text
15:44:22 <allanj> zakim, close item 3
15:44:22 <Zakim> agendum 3, adapting text - add Font back in discussion, closed
15:44:23 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:44:23 <Zakim> 4. icon font technique [from allanj]
15:44:58 <allanj> wd: it may be possible to block font change with web components.
15:45:09 <allanj> open item 4
15:45:25 <allanj> zakim, open item 4
15:45:25 <Zakim> agendum 4. "icon font technique" taken up [from allanj]
15:45:53 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg
15:46:00 <allanj> ja: please give feed back.
15:46:21 <allanj> ... email
15:47:28 <laura> Steve: would like to see it  applied to 1.3.1
15:47:51 <laura> Applicability: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg#Applicability
15:48:55 <allanj> lc: some are resistant to adding failure techniques
15:49:27 <wayne> q+
15:49:51 <allanj> ack w
15:50:10 <Glenda> +1 let’s try to establish this as a failure :)
15:50:30 <allanj> +1 to move on the 1.3.1 failure
15:50:39 <laura> wayne: do it for 2.1
15:50:54 <wayne> +1 to 1.3.1 failure
15:51:43 <wayne> q+
15:51:53 <allanj> ack w
15:52:09 <laura> Steve: will draft a 1.3.1 failure.
15:53:24 <laura> wayne: it is important to get it through.
15:54:36 <allanj> zakim, close item 4
15:54:36 <Zakim> agendum 4, icon font technique, closed
15:54:38 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
15:56:10 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/08-lvtf-minutes.html laura
15:57:41 <laura> trackbot, end meeting
15:57:41 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:57:41 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jim, Shawn, ScottM, steverep, Laura, Glenda, Wayne, alastairc, JohnRochford
15:57:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:57:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/08-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:57:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items