06:34:08 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 06:34:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-irc 06:34:42 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Feng_Zhang, Michael_Koster, Taki_Kamiya 06:34:54 taki: Sebastian is on vacation and asked me to lead this call 06:35:21 Fenger has joined #wot-td 06:35:47 TOPIC: Status AIs 06:36:02 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf 06:36:23 present+ Yongjing_Zhang 06:36:25 TOPIC: Collect available TD in JSON-LD format 06:37:07 s/TOPIC: Collect/action: Collect/ 06:37:11 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/8 06:37:13 DP: Carsten and I got this item. 06:37:24 DP: I started with structure in general. 06:37:41 s/action: Collect/topic: Collect/ 06:37:43 DP: Exploring different features. Realistic test cases. 06:37:47 rrsagent, make log public 06:37:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 06:37:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 06:37:54 DP: I got some examples from current specifications. 06:37:57 zkis has joined #wot-td 06:38:06 DP: I also sent message to public mailing list. 06:38:17 DP: I should ping each plugfest participants. 06:38:36 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-wg/2017May/0012.html Daniel's message 06:38:45 DP: We should do initial analysises wrt. serialization formats. 06:39:24 DP: I hope Carsten can join in the next few telecons since there is some differences in how we should proceed. 06:39:46 Meeting: WoT WG - TD 06:39:48 DP: If all people can be together in the telecon, it is better. 06:40:20 s/TD/TD-TF/ 06:40:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 06:40:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 06:40:26 DP: I have some initial personal experiment for exercise. 06:40:40 Chair: Taki 06:40:42 DP: When we have mature test case set, I can generate results. 06:42:19 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_May_2017,_Osaka,_Japan#Participation PlugFest participants 06:43:03 Kaz: I can send messages to Japanese participants in Japanese language. 06:43:20 DP: I can also send to the rest, including Siemens people. 06:43:36 s/in Japanese/individually in Japanese/ 06:43:54 TOPIC: Ask W3C experts for advice on TD namespace 06:44:05 Kaz: I will do it soon, today. 06:44:52 TOPIC: Issues 06:45:21 TOPIC: Specify the expected type of JSON TD structures 06:45:34 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/7 06:45:37 achille_zappa has joined #wot-td 06:46:40 DP: During Osaka F2F, and experiments, we had issue wrt. the current spec is vague in terms of how @type and @context is not clear. 06:46:53 DP: Whether a single string or an array of strings. 06:47:15 DP: Code complexity is an issue, interoperability is also an issue. 06:47:27 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot-td 06:47:35 present+ DarkoAnicic 06:47:42 DP: DR is suggesting it is a bit too early to discuss on this. 06:47:59 DP: People may have better experiences on this. 06:48:36 -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6690 RFC6690 06:48:37 Michael: Single item is a plain string, I have seen this in some specs. 06:49:15 Michael Koster: I don't expect complexity. In OCF, everything is an array. 06:49:54 DP: Do you mind providing a pointer to OCF spec in the thread? 06:50:08 Michael Koster: I will put a pointer. 06:50:38 achille_zappa_ has joined #wot-td 06:50:42 DP: TK pointed out Canonicalization aspect. 06:52:02 DP: Issue #1 can be closed, I noticed. It is about missing figures. 06:52:09 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1 06:52:13 Kaz: Have URL? 06:52:40 DP: Here you go. 06:52:46 mjkoster has joined #wot-td 06:52:54 https://openconnectivity.org/draftspecs/OCF_Core_Specification_v1.0.0.pdf 06:53:26 Kaz: I just closed that. 06:53:43 TOPIC: Plugfest 06:56:39 DP: It is better to say we have use case for example on semantic annotation. 06:57:12 Darko: We want to implement use case where thing description is semantically annotated to support discovery. 06:57:50 Darko: TD Ontology and OCF, unified model, that way we can search both devices. 06:58:33 Darko: OCF side, Michael Koster and MM will contribute. On WoT side, Maria, I and Victor. 06:59:00 MM: I bypassed that in my OCF experiments. 06:59:06 s/MM/MK/ 06:59:19 q+ to ask about current practices Osaka Release 06:59:33 MK: I am assuming each resource has TD, based on OCF-WoT binding. 06:59:46 q+ to ask about sharing the annotated TD examples 06:59:49 MK: I am doing mechanical tranlation. 07:00:13 MK: I had action item about protocol binding, which I will do soon. 07:00:34 Darko: It is enough align at protocol binding layer? 07:00:55 MK: TD provides enough description for OCF. 07:01:21 MK: It is easy to map OCF. Mostly mechanical translation. 07:01:41 MK: OCF does not have semantic ontology. 07:01:56 q? 07:01:58 q- later 07:02:13 present+ Achille_Zappa 07:02:25 MK: OCF defines resource types. It can fit higher layer semantics defined elsewhere. 07:02:39 Darko: How discovery is done? 07:02:53 MK: In OCF you look for resource type. 07:03:04 MK: Temperature resource type, eg. 07:04:23 MK: We can make bridge where we can search all resource types. 07:04:41 MK: Semantic model may also be helpful. 07:05:14 MK: OneM2M devices can also be found. 07:05:47 Darko: That approach sounds simple. 07:06:06 Darko: It assumes all OCF device has TD. 07:06:54 MK: Action semantic model, for example. I am not sure... 07:07:11 q+ 07:07:11 Darko: OCF, what kind of description is this? 07:07:33 MK: RAML and JSON schema, and swagger. 07:07:48 MK: Using consistent pattern, using interface type. 07:07:58 MK: Properties are readable/writable. 07:08:08 q+ to mention some idea on binding 07:08:09 MK: Data model is defined in swagger/JSON-schema 07:08:35 MK: Read swagger, and get description properties. 07:09:38 MK: OCF data model is very consistent. 07:09:57 MK: GET/POST only, for example. 07:10:38 MK: I will need to explain more about how OCF works when I describe protocol binding. 07:11:47 MK: Collection is difficult. 07:11:55 MK: It is about batching. 07:12:11 MK: I map to action with two inputs. 07:12:55 rrsagent, draft mintues 07:12:55 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 07:13:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:13:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 07:13:04 s/rrsagent, draft mintues// 07:13:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:13:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 07:13:50 Darko: Unifying discovery. Two approaches. The second item. We had discovery. Give me TD, using keyword "temperature". 07:14:06 Darko: We want to extend this a bit. 07:14:19 Darko: We have now WoT ontology. 07:14:33 Darko: iot.schema.org also has pattern. 07:15:27 Darko: Request TD by asking by saying what you need. 07:15:53 Darko: and discover based on this. 07:16:14 Darko: We want to extend the current discovery. 07:16:45 Darko: You need to get the name of the property "mytemp1", eg. 07:17:22 Darko: Enrich discovery, and help using API. 07:17:44 MK: in Link, we call "title". 07:18:05 MK: there is another machine readable version. 07:18:31 MK: Each "temperature" needs to have semantic tag. 07:18:54 MK: It reminds me of Constraint-based query. 07:19:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:19:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 07:20:01 Darko: If you don't know what you need, we can use constraint-based query. 07:20:59 q? 07:21:36 MK: Ontological hint is useful in constraint-based query, too. 07:22:08 Darko: We could define use cases from linked-data point of view. 07:22:36 q? 07:22:45 MK: We can concretely work that way. 07:23:29 DP: I heard quite often that if we can collaborate up front, also for serialization comparison, that would be great. 07:23:30 i/It is better to say/topic: Semantic Annotation/ 07:23:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:23:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 07:23:58 MK: I can create starting point if we still have small examples. 07:24:16 DP: I don't have specific set of devices. 07:24:17 q? 07:24:19 ack d 07:24:19 dape, you wanted to ask about sharing the annotated TD examples 07:24:30 DP: You can make up your own devices, that would be fine. 07:24:46 MK: iot.schema.org will stick with basic capabilities. 07:25:31 Darko: Let's define a few capabilities in schema.org. 07:25:44 Darko: Let's experiment how discovery works. 07:25:53 MK: Yes. and we need some examples. 07:27:13 Darko: We need to define use case first. 07:27:58 Darko: MK and Darko will work on to define capabilities, then examples, lastly on constraint-based query. 07:28:44 MK: About a year ago, we discussed orchestrating capabilities. 07:29:02 MK: ad-hoc composition of things, for example. 07:29:59 Darko: It will help us to search for use case first. 07:30:15 Darko: An application idea MK just said. 07:30:29 q+ to mention the need for PlugFest demo scenario for Dusseldorf 07:30:41 Darko: Discover two or three things without prior knowledge. 07:33:29 MK: One is discovery. Limited prior knowledge. We can orchestrate things. 07:33:59 q? 07:34:06 Darko: Application that connects three things. 07:35:23 Darko: Output of the first thing. you need to find the second thing. Query is generated based on user decision. 07:35:41 Darko: We need to help scripting guys on discovery. 07:35:52 regrets: Maria_Poveda 07:36:31 MK: Using scripting API to do orchestration is useful. 07:38:18 MK: "reaction", how do we wanna call them? 07:40:06 q? 07:40:07 MK: We should first discuss on use case. 07:40:48 i/We should/taki: Darko, can you start an issue on GitHub about this so that interested people join the discussion?/ 07:41:01 MK: alarm, lighting, alarm controlling system, smoke detector, etc. 07:41:23 MK: what do you wanna do given those different domain of things. 07:41:46 MK: Rule, behavior, recipes. 07:42:19 q? 07:42:24 Darko: Can Michael write down use case? 07:42:28 MK: OK. 07:42:36 Darko: I will do discovery part. 07:42:57 Darko: Let's start as an issue. 07:43:05 q? 07:43:24 ack k 07:43:24 kaz, you wanted to ask about current practices Osaka Release and to and to mention some idea on binding and to mention the need for PlugFest demo scenario for Dusseldorf 07:43:47 Kaz: Today's discussion is related to Plugfest. 07:44:03 Kaz: It is plugfest scenario, right? 07:44:23 MK: We want an example use case. 07:44:47 Kaz: I looked at TD repository. 07:45:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/plugfest current practices doc for plugfests 07:45:07 Kaz: We should make Osaka version snapshot. 07:45:21 DP: Content has not been updated. 07:45:32 DP: In the future, we need to make snapshot. 07:45:48 Kaz: We talked about binding. 07:46:01 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/kaz/protocol-binding.png kaz's strawman idea 07:46:01 Kaz: I am thinking about how binding should work. 07:46:24 Kaz: I am writing this image. 07:46:49 Kaz: Two layers. TD = abstract world, and device-dependent world. 07:47:48 MK: It aligns well with data model, and security requirements. 07:48:43 MK: Is that gonna be a pull request? 07:49:04 MK: It is good to have this. 07:49:13 Kaz: to architecture document? 07:49:56 Kaz: I will make pull request to architure document. 07:50:08 i/I will/(no objections)/ 07:50:54 [ adjourned ] 07:51:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:51:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/02-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 08:03:34 taki has left #wot-td 08:09:30 zkis has joined #wot-td 09:59:46 Zakim has left #wot-td