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12:42:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:42:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:42:39 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:42:39 <trackbot> Date: 17 May 2017
12:43:19 <Steven> Chair: Steven
12:43:24 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0019
12:52:50 <alain> alain has joined #forms
13:02:37 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
13:02:51 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2121 - Reformulate text for @incremental
13:02:51 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0018
13:04:38 <Steven> Steven: [Describes the reasoning behind the new text]
13:04:49 <Steven> ... [as in the email]
13:05:03 <Steven> Erik: I am OK with this
13:05:58 <Steven> Alain: I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
13:06:05 <Steven> Steven: Why not read it now.
13:06:11 <Steven> Alain: OK
13:08:00 <Steven> Alain: I'm almost OK with this
13:08:57 <Steven> Alain: No, I'm OK with it.
13:09:04 <Steven> Steven: OK, I'll make the change.
13:09:53 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to update the spec @incremental text
13:09:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2122 - Update the spec @incremental text [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-05-24].
13:10:26 <Steven> Alain: I have a @delay for dispatching events on @incremental
13:11:36 <Steven> Steven: It's not in the spec
13:11:44 <Steven> Erik: Maybe we talked about it in the past
13:12:10 <Steven> Topic: Event marking and dispatch
13:12:10 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0014
13:13:08 <Steven> Steven: I had completely forgotten about that link you posted
13:13:15 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Improved_UI_Events
13:13:35 <Steven> Erik: This description is much more high level than before, which is good
13:13:54 <Steven> ... I think we can make it even more simpler
13:14:00 <Steven> Steven: That sounds good
13:14:44 <Steven> Erik: I am happy that the marking is gone. I never did like that.
13:15:52 <Steven> Steven: You are saying that a control ponly needs a value-changed event only if the value changes
13:15:58 <Steven> Erik: Exactly, and the other MIP events
13:16:40 <Steven> - When a control becomes non-relevant, we might want to avoid dispatching
13:16:40 <Steven> other MIP events and value changes.
13:16:40 <Steven> - When a control becomes relevant, we have to decide whether we want to
13:16:40 <Steven> dispatch any MIP/value events.
13:17:05 <Steven> Erik: I would be OK with that not being fully described.
13:17:19 <Steven> ... what to do when controls get created - do they get events?
13:19:31 <Steven> Steven: On UI initialization controls don't get events; I would expect the same for when a control is created. I don't mind which way, as long as they are consitent
13:20:50 <Steven> Erik: One option would be when a control becomes relevant (from the relevant event) that the event context contains the MIP informaiton.
13:20:58 <Steven> s/iton/tion/
13:21:24 <Steven> Erik: Going back to your question, I think it is easy to specify.
13:21:39 <Steven> ... and the spec would become simpler.
13:21:58 <Steven> Steven: I'll give it a try
13:22:13 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to update the control events as per the email.
13:22:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2123 - Update the control events as per the email. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-05-24].
13:23:11 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2120: Research the relationship between the recalculate
13:23:11 <Steven> (etc) events and the actions
13:23:11 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0015
13:24:43 <Steven> Steven: So are these events redundant?
13:24:49 <Steven> Erik: I don't think we need them
13:25:00 <Steven> ... if we have them, it should be informational
13:25:33 <Steven> ... and the split between recalculate and revalidate is problematic
13:26:11 <Steven> Steven: I agree.
13:26:46 <Steven> Alain: There might be users with special JS libraries that use them, so they *might* be useful.
13:27:59 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Events
13:29:59 <Steven> Steven: I showed events that correspond with actions in that table
13:30:22 <Steven> Erik: There's also the other way round, some actions have no corresponding event, like setindex
13:31:34 <Steven> ... I don't see as point of the events having an effect as well as the action.
13:31:54 <Steven> ... I don't mind having the event as well though.
13:32:43 <Steven> ... I can imagine having a notification event for update-done, and refresh-done
13:32:50 <Steven> ... as being useful.
13:33:26 <Steven> Steven: So do we leave the events as historical?
13:33:29 <Steven> Erik: Deprecate
13:33:51 <Steven> Alain: That's OK with me.
13:33:59 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to deprecate the refresh etc events
13:34:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2124 - Deprecate the refresh etc events [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-05-24].
13:34:14 <Steven> Topic: Default for dispatch/@targetid
13:34:14 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0009
13:35:38 <Steven> Steven: Not an important point, but it struct me that there was a dissimilarity between handler and dispatcher
13:35:46 <Steven> s/struct/struck/
13:36:08 <Steven> Erik: We do have special id style in our implementation
13:36:22 <Steven> ... occasionally useful.
13:36:43 <Steven> Steven: Anyway, I propose leaving this now.
13:36:45 <Steven> Erik: Sure
13:37:03 <Steven> Topic: Validation and optional fields
13:37:03 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017May/0003
13:37:26 <Steven> Steven: I intended to spend more time on this this week, and didn't.
13:37:48 <Steven> ... so I'll put this item off to next week.
13:37:55 <Steven> Topic: AOB
13:38:00 <Steven> [None]
13:38:09 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
13:38:30 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
13:38:37 <Steven> rrsagent, amke minutes
13:38:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'amke minutes', Steven.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:38:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:38:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/17-forms-minutes.html Steven
13:39:52 <Steven> s/ponly/only/
13:40:51 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:40:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/17-forms-minutes.html Steven
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