15:36:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:36:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-dpub-irc
15:36:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:36:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:36:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:37:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:37:00 <trackbot> Date: 08 May 2017
15:38:25 <ivan> Chair: Garth
15:38:59 <ivan> Regrets: Luc, Leonard
15:39:24 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017May/0020.html
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15:57:34 <tzviya> present+
15:57:58 <ivan> present+
15:58:14 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
15:59:58 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
16:00:21 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
16:01:17 <Avneesh> present+ Avneesh
16:01:56 <pkra> present+ Peter Krautzberger
16:02:13 <dauwhe> Resolved: E. is very adorable
16:02:24 <clapierre> present+ Charles_LaPierre
16:02:28 <pkra> cute!
16:02:35 <pkra> so!
16:02:37 <pkra> Yes.
16:02:39 <pkra> I'm here.
16:02:41 <astearns> present+
16:03:22 <ivan> present+ george
16:03:24 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
16:03:26 <ivan> present+ avneesh
16:03:30 <ivan> present+ charles
16:03:34 <garth> Wow — lots of folks!
16:03:36 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:03:36 <Zakim> Present: tzviya, ivan, dauwhe, Avneesh, Peter, Krautzberger, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, george
16:03:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see garth, Vlad, pkra, Avneesh, rkwright, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, Florian, tzviya, Karen, ivan, liam, dauwhe, Bert, plinss, trackbot, bigbluehat, iank_, rego,
16:03:39 <Zakim> ... astearns, JakeA
16:03:40 <HeatherF> HeatherF has joined #dpub
16:03:42 <Kyrce> Kyrce has joined #dpub
16:03:59 <ivan> present+ Kyrce
16:04:00 <nick1> nick1 has joined #dpub
16:04:12 <ivan> present+ Ric
16:04:22 <ivan> present+ vlad
16:04:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:04:31 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:04:31 <Zakim> Present: tzviya, ivan, dauwhe, Avneesh, Peter, Krautzberger, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, george, Kyrce, Ric, vlad
16:04:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, nick1, Kyrce, HeatherF, garth, Vlad, pkra, Avneesh, rkwright, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, Florian, tzviya, Karen, ivan, liam, dauwhe, Bert, plinss,
16:04:33 <Zakim> ... trackbot, bigbluehat, iank_, rego, astearns, JakeA
16:04:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:04:56 <ivan> present+ garth
16:04:56 <ivan> present+ michael_miller
16:04:57 <George> present+ George
16:05:01 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:05:01 <Zakim> Present: tzviya, ivan, dauwhe, Avneesh, Peter, Krautzberger, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, george, Kyrce, Ric, vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, garth, michael_miller
16:05:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, George, Kyrce, HeatherF, garth, Vlad, pkra, Avneesh, rkwright, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, Florian, tzviya, Karen, ivan, liam, dauwhe, Bert, plinss,
16:05:04 <Zakim> ... trackbot, bigbluehat, iank_, rego, astearns, JakeA
16:05:10 <HeatherF> running late on another call - will join shortly
16:05:41 <garth> Correction from Agenda:
16:05:43 <liam> present+ Liam
16:05:43 <garth> Access code:648 817 610
16:05:44 <garth> Mobile Auto Dial:+1-617-324-0000,,,648817610#
16:05:44 <HeatherF> present+ Heather_Flanagan
16:05:47 <HeatherF> (finally)
16:06:23 <tzviya> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3pbwc3dc55NRE5EWld0V2lwbDg/view?usp=sharing
16:06:26 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:06:41 <dauwhe> Topic: Eliyahu is cute
16:06:47 <tzviya> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3pbwc3dc55NMXdlNG9tTE5aQ28/view?usp=sharing
16:07:09 <dauwhe> [general agreement that E. is adorable]
16:07:11 <Kyrce> I'm jealous. He has better eyelashes than I do!
16:07:27 <dauwhe> Topic: Welcome back Tzviya
16:07:33 <ivan> scribenick: dauwhe
16:08:01 <dauwhe> garth: Welcome back Tzviya!
16:08:10 <dauwhe> ... any objections to approving minutes?
16:08:18 <dauwhe> Resolved: minutes are approved
16:08:19 <dauwhe> Topic: New members
16:08:25 <dauwhe> garth: We have two new members
16:08:33 <dauwhe> ... is Kyrce here?
16:08:40 <dauwhe> Kyrce: hello
16:08:59 <liam> liam has joined #dpub
16:09:08 <ivan> welcome Kyrce in another group:-)
16:09:13 <dauwhe> ... I've been at Pearson for 13 years
16:09:22 <dauwhe> ... was part of the annotation working group
16:09:23 <duga> duga has joined #dpub
16:09:25 <dauwhe> garth: welcome!
16:09:35 <duga> present+ duga
16:09:49 <dauwhe> Topic: WG Charter
16:09:54 <dauwhe> ivan: we are on last week of charter review
16:10:06 <dauwhe> ... lots of people have voted--43 votes in favor
16:10:13 <dauwhe> ... this is a great number
16:10:19 <dauwhe> ... two more have objections to the text
16:10:27 <dauwhe> ... one of them we already have new text that is fine
16:10:36 <dauwhe> ... still outstanding issues with Vivliostyle
16:10:43 <rkwright_> rkwright_ has joined #dpub
16:10:50 <dauwhe> ... the voting period goes to the end of the week
16:11:05 <dauwhe> ... next week we should have a discussion with W3M, and how they will handle the objections
16:11:12 <nick1> nick1 has joined #dpub
16:11:13 <garth> present+ nick1
16:11:14 <dauwhe> ... I"m confident it will be solved quickly
16:11:21 <dauwhe> ... so we can be up and running at the beginning of June
16:11:25 <rego> rego has joined #dpub
16:11:32 <dauwhe> ... five more business days to go
16:11:37 <garth> q?
16:11:48 <dauwhe> ... out of the 43, 9 are TPI members
16:11:58 <dauwhe> ... the others are regular w3c members
16:12:02 <dauwhe> garth: excellent
16:12:36 <nick1> Is there a way to get more of our TPI members?
16:12:58 <dauwhe> garth: Ivan is confident that the working group will be set up
16:13:35 <dauwhe> ... we are on for a F2F in NYC on JUne 22 and 23
16:13:44 <dauwhe> ... so y'all should make plans
16:13:56 <dauwhe> ... working on food logistics with Adobe
16:14:06 <clapierre> I have made my travel plans for the F2F!
16:14:25 <dauwhe> Topic: F2F Agenda
16:14:30 <Vlad> Just FYI - InterContinental on 48th has good rates for the days of the meeting
16:14:53 <dauwhe> ... please take a look at the agenda which is linked from this meeting's agenda
16:15:05 <ivan> Preliminary agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J0VlZbMFj-33tfhZe0EK543NWFlx6dyDHauqkPwMeEI/edit
16:15:06 <dauwhe> ... anyone with this link can edit this google doc to add agenda items
16:15:27 <garth> q?
16:16:08 <dauwhe> ivan: two families of comments
16:16:22 <dauwhe> ... one is that we should have a bunch of discussions on boring but necessary issues
16:16:30 <dauwhe> ... like how we organize repos, WG home page, etc
16:16:37 <dauwhe> ... practical things... scribing, etc
16:16:47 <liam_> liam_ has joined #dpub
16:16:56 <dauwhe> ... the other... Garth, Tzviya, and myself will have a preparatory meeting the day before
16:17:03 <clapierre> Should we add attendee list of confirmed people?
16:17:23 <dauwhe> ... the other issue is something we have to define from the beginning
16:17:30 <dauwhe> ... how will we do testing when the time comes
16:17:43 <dauwhe> ... how do we make sure that testing features will be on our agenda all along
16:18:03 <dauwhe> ... some groups develop a spec first, and only think about testing at the end. That's not good.
16:18:13 <dauwhe> ... so we want to be clear on testing from the start
16:18:45 <George> q+
16:19:04 <dauwhe> ... there are similar issues to keep an eye on i18n, a11y, security, etc
16:19:16 <dauwhe> ... all of the things that have to undergo horizontal review
16:19:27 <garth> q?
16:19:28 <dauwhe> ... let's build these things into the work as we go along
16:19:33 <garth> ack George
16:19:38 <dauwhe> George: we have epubtest.org
16:19:53 <dauwhe> ... when we talk about testing, are we envisioning sample content that could be tested
16:20:05 <dauwhe> ... and then reading systems and browsers rendering the content?
16:20:09 <dauwhe> ... and we also have a11y testing
16:20:14 <dauwhe> ... and there's also security things
16:20:24 <dauwhe> ... are we envisioning that model? or something different.
16:20:40 <tzviya> q+
16:20:45 <dauwhe> ivan: all of the above, but we also have to have tests that prove what we specify is consistent and implementable
16:20:49 <dauwhe> q+
16:20:56 <dauwhe> ... which is a slightly different question
16:21:14 <dauwhe> ... at w3c, for every feature in the spec we have to prove it can be implemented, by having two implementations of every feature
16:21:21 <dauwhe> ... we need to figure out how to ensure that
16:21:27 <astearns> tests need to show that what has been specified is clear enough for two implementations to interpret the spec in the same way
16:21:37 <dauwhe> ... my hope is that we can get people who are experts in testing to join the group
16:21:47 <dauwhe> ... there is a company called spec ops that has done testing
16:21:55 <dauwhe> ... Shane McCarron, for example
16:22:18 <dauwhe> ... I don't know if Shane can join the group, but that would be great
16:22:21 <garth> q?
16:22:30 <garth> ack tz
16:22:53 <dauwhe> tzviya: one thing I learned from DPUB-ARIA is that the only way to know what the testing looks like is to define the exit criteria
16:23:15 <dauwhe> ... we should define exit criteria first
16:23:29 <garth> q?
16:23:32 <garth> ack dau
16:24:05 <garth> q?
16:24:11 <dauwhe> ivan: one thing worth mentioning
16:24:44 <dauwhe> ... one objection from glazou was that the time in the original milestones was too short for the necessary testing
16:24:53 <garth> q?
16:24:56 <dauwhe> ... so we extended the charter time to give us more time for testing
16:25:11 <dauwhe> garth: other things for agenda topics?
16:25:20 <garth> q?
16:25:37 <George> George plans to be there
16:25:40 <dauwhe> ... please also RSVP for attending the F2F, either virtually or physically
16:25:44 <dauwhe> ivan: one question
16:25:53 <dauwhe> ... do we want to have remote participation?
16:26:08 <dauwhe> garth: it was clarified that we can have remote call in with Adobe
16:26:16 <dauwhe> ... I would encourage folks to be there in person
16:26:42 <garth> q?
16:27:01 <dauwhe> Topic: AOB
16:27:04 <dauwhe> garth: we are at the "AOB" agenda item at :26 past the hour
16:27:23 <rego> rego has joined #dpub
16:27:31 <dauwhe> ... we will likely skip next week and do more F2F planning in two weeks
16:27:53 <dauwhe> ... and make sure that you get your F2F agenda items to the agenda
16:27:54 <garth> q?
16:27:59 <dauwhe> ... anything else to discuss?
16:28:00 <dauwhe> Topic: Personalization discussion
16:28:19 <dauwhe> tzviya: last week on the email list
16:28:27 <dauwhe> ... there was some discussion with ARIA about personalization
16:28:38 <dauwhe> ... this is something we want to look at when we're a real WG
16:28:50 <dauwhe> ... there was some interest in the work we'd done with DPUB-ARIA
16:29:03 <dauwhe> ... I think it was David McDonald
16:29:14 <dauwhe> ... it was a comment on the published use cases
16:29:35 <dauwhe> ... David and John Folio were commenting on the concept of rendering and how it could be used for personalization
16:29:43 <tzviya> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/
16:29:43 <dauwhe> ... there is ongoing work in the cognitive task force
16:29:50 <dauwhe> ... it plugs in to aria
16:29:55 <clapierre> with respect to manifests.
16:30:04 <dauwhe> ... along side, there's a JS library to overwrite existing styles
16:30:21 <dauwhe> ... with a regular website, most things are not as craftily-designed
16:30:39 <garth> q?
16:30:45 <dauwhe> ... this is the way the cognitive task force is moving forward with this
16:30:50 <dauwhe> ... we should be a part of this
16:30:55 <garth> q?
16:31:00 <dauwhe> garth: anyone else?
16:31:10 <dauwhe> ... alrighty then
16:31:16 <Avneesh_> Avneesh_ has joined #dpub
16:31:26 <dauwhe> ... homework: look at agenda planning doc, comment or add things, and RSVP
16:31:35 <dauwhe> ... we'll meet again in two weeks
16:31:40 <dauwhe> ... on the 22nd
16:32:01 <dauwhe> ... thanks everyone!
16:32:07 <Kyrce> Thanks!
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16:39:43 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:39:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:39:45 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
16:39:57 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:39:57 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:39:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, ivan, dauwhe, Avneesh, Peter, Krautzberger, Charles_LaPierre, astearns, george, Kyrce, Ric, vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, garth,
16:40:00 <Zakim> ... michael_miller, Liam, Heather_Flanagan, duga
16:40:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:40:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:40:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:40:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items