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15:17:10 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:17:25 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
15:17:30 <ivan> Chair: Rick
15:18:05 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2017May/0000.html
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16:05:29 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
16:05:49 <tzviya> Rick_Johnson: Update on Charter
16:05:57 <tzviya> Ivan: We have 32 positive votes
16:06:03 <tzviya> ...more in the pipeline
16:06:35 <tzviya> ...this is more than 5%. We have 2 formal objections.
16:07:09 <tzviya> ...We have dealt with the FO from Disruptive Inno. Daniel G has stated that he will drop the FO if we make the changes
16:07:34 <tzviya> garth: what is the process for dropping an FO?
16:08:00 <tzviya> Ivan: no formal process. I will put together a report and record that this is explicitly stated.
16:08:18 <tzviya> garth: we do not expect Daniel to re-vote, dropping the FO
16:09:09 <tzviya> Ivan: Vivliostyle also objected. This is very different, attempting to change the dynamics of the WG.
16:09:43 <tzviya> ...The list of deliverables in the charter should not be considered as final. WG should deliberate first and then finalize.
16:10:40 <tzviya> ...This group is caught in the middle of a larger battle about how W3C should work. One view is for a group having general ideas and then incubation
16:11:16 <tzviya> ...The other is to incubate and come to WG with clear ideas and then finalize the spec in the WG.
16:11:18 <tzviya> q+
16:11:22 <BillMcCoy> q+
16:12:25 <tzviya> Ivan: Many agree with what Florian is proposing, but making the changes in the charter during the voting period is problematic
16:13:14 <tzviya> ...I recommend contacting those who have already voted, possibly including Vivliostyle's proposed changes
16:13:30 <tzviya> ...But, others objected to going against standard process.
16:14:06 <tzviya> ...Everyone is aware that we need to get this sorted out as quickly as possible.
16:14:18 <tzviya> ...Voting period ends in about 2 weeks.
16:14:55 <tzviya> ...We can wait until end of voting period, and W3M can make a decision and contact voters about changes.
16:15:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:15:19 <garth> q?
16:15:46 <garth> q+
16:15:53 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:15:55 <tzviya> ack tzv
16:16:26 <tzviya> ack BillM
16:16:34 <ivan> ack BillMcCoy
16:17:06 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: Rick and I spoke to Florian in Beijing. We think that we have a path that will not involve going back to all members.
16:17:43 <tzviya> ...He would probably be satisfied if we adjusted wording to make it clear that proposals are a straw man, not final versions
16:18:16 <tzviya> ...This could be good wiggle room anyway.
16:18:54 <garth> q?
16:19:21 <tzviya> ...He is sensitive to the larger argument, and he probably realizes that we can't make the drastic change at this time.
16:20:03 <tzviya> Ivan: We do have to work with what is documented in the FO. Rick did propose alternative language, and Florian took it a step further.
16:20:54 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: It will probably be easier to work with Florian than to work with all the voters again.
16:20:56 <tzviya> q?
16:21:04 <tzviya> ack g
16:21:04 <ivan> ack garth
16:21:43 <tzviya> garth: Maybe we can keep this off the mailing list and encourage Florian to publicly change things
16:22:41 <tzviya> Ivan: If you think this will work, please. Include Wendy as well.
16:22:47 <garth> q?
16:23:09 <garth> q+
16:23:32 <tzviya> Rick_Johnson: Florian was very sympathetic and wants to see this happen, so I think there is room to move him
16:24:51 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: If we don't announce the F2F, people from overseas won't come. Waiting for the charter to announce the F2F delays further
16:25:21 <George> Hotel prices are also getting very high, because I have checked.
16:27:22 <tzviya> ack b
16:27:23 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:27:36 <graham_> q+
16:27:45 <tzviya> Bill_Kasdorf: Could you clarify who W3M is and the relationship to director?
16:28:31 <tzviya> Ivan: W3M = director, CEO, CFO, and various function leads, Alan, and hosts
16:29:03 <graham_> q-
16:30:18 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: W3M is Jeff and his direct reports. Tim is not really involved. There is a formal process for seeking consensus.
16:30:46 <tzviya> ACTION BillMcCoy contact Florian, cc Rick
16:31:00 <tzviya> ack g
16:31:00 <George> q+
16:31:48 <ivan> ack George
16:32:09 <tzviya> Rick_Johnson: Florian made the case for special cases in Beijing. Jeff and Mike Champion (MS) made the point that publishing is a special case because it already existed prior to merger.
16:33:19 <BillMcCoy> +1 to that proposal
16:33:26 <tzviya> George: Assuming the charter goes through, can we say that we're having a F2F
16:33:37 <BillMcCoy> (announce WG F2F with backup plan to be an IG workshop F2F)
16:33:49 <tzviya> ACTION Tzviya, Garth, Ivan to announce F2F
16:33:59 <ivan> Topic: CG
16:34:01 <tzviya> topic: CG Update
16:34:20 <tzviya> Liisa: Dave, Rachel, and I met to talk about initial topics
16:34:55 <tzviya> ...Dave made it clear that ISO stuff is not best topic to get started and maybe better for BG
16:35:17 <tzviya> ...Raised it in BG, but many objections from Japan and Europe
16:35:22 <laudrain> q+
16:35:30 <George> q+
16:35:35 <tzviya> ...First CG meeting this week, plan to do a lot of over email and github
16:35:59 <tzviya> Rick_Johnson: I spoke to Rachel and Dave about edupub
16:36:22 <tzviya> ...They liked the idea of doing it in the CG
16:36:26 <tzviya> ack la
16:36:29 <garth> q?
16:37:14 <tzviya> laudrain: In Europe, we are working on European A11y Act. This includes revision of ISO for EPUB 3.0
16:37:32 <liisamk_> q+
16:37:59 <BillMcCoy> q+
16:38:09 <tzviya> ...Spoke to BillM about ISO in London. It's a revision
16:38:13 <Rick_Johnson> ack george
16:38:49 <tzviya> George: We could put together a task force in CG to put 3.1 and EPUB A11y 1.1 to ISO
16:39:08 <ivan> referring back to my report above: we just got one more positive vote in, so it is not 33 and not 32 :-)
16:39:20 <ivan> q+
16:39:21 <garth> :-)
16:39:25 <ivan> ack liisamk_
16:39:28 <tzviya> ack l
16:39:33 <laudrain> CG is more than 100 people ! So working in task force could be helpfull
16:40:22 <garth> q?
16:40:38 <tzviya> liisamk: There is a lot of concern in Japan about timing, because they are concerned that this will invalidate the tools
16:41:21 <tzviya> Tzviya: We should note that the JEPA toolset/documentation has been a concern for the life of 3.1
16:41:31 <ivan> q-
16:41:37 <ivan> ack BillMcCoy
16:41:59 <ivan> regrets+ Paul, Mike
16:42:04 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: There was no commitment made to work on ISO standardization. The ball is in the hands of those who require it.
16:42:42 <George> q+
16:43:28 <tzviya> ...One of the meetings I had in Japan was with those who work on the technical issues in EPUB 3.1. They made it clear that they think that we made a mistake with version number in 3.1. It should have been 3.0.X.
16:44:20 <tzviya> ...Biggest obstacle is with FXL in 3.0.1
16:44:58 <tzviya> ...2 practical problems with ISO - the fast track option we used for EPUB 3 is gone.
16:46:44 <tzviya> ...W3C's ISO submission process is not available to us because they have a PASS agreement (limited to W3C rec)
16:47:51 <tzviya> ...Should i bother finding out about ISO submission?
16:47:58 <liisamk_> +1 to finding out about ISO
16:48:15 <tzviya> +1 to finding out about ISO - it's clearly important to many members
16:48:35 <laudrain> +1 to contribute to ISO for Accessibility goal
16:49:48 <garth> q?
16:49:49 <ivan> ack George
16:49:50 <tzviya> ack g
16:50:06 <tzviya> george: EPUB 1.0 A11y spec applies to all versions of EPUB
16:50:18 <graham_> agree to research on availability of ISO processes (via PAS or slow-track)
16:50:39 <tzviya> ...It might be possible to add just the accessibility chunk
16:50:41 <laudrain> +1
16:50:41 <tzviya> q?
16:50:49 <BillMcCoy> q+
16:50:57 <tzviya> ack b
16:50:59 <ivan> ack BillMcCoy
16:51:24 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: The team in Japan offered to do a 3.0.2 separate from 3.1
16:51:26 <tzviya> q+
16:51:40 <tzviya> ...this could lead to fragmentation
16:51:52 <laudrain> -1 to fragmentation
16:52:37 <ivan> ack tzviya
16:53:58 <tzviya> tzviya: versioning was discussed extensively in EPUB WG
16:54:36 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: I realize that, but I didn't realize that all of Japan wanted 3.0.X instead of 3.1
16:54:55 <tzviya> ...I will research options about 3.1
16:55:40 <Karen> +1 Rick's presentation at AC meeting, Beijing
16:55:41 <tzviya> topic: AC meeting
16:55:56 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: Publishing got a lot of time and was well-received
17:00:10 <garth> Dropping off.  Have a good week folks!
17:02:00 <tzviya> topic: epub validation
17:02:33 <tzviya> liisamk: seeing a lot of issues with epubcheck, especially older files
17:03:14 <tzviya> tzviya: what about funding epubcheck for 3.1?
17:03:36 <tzviya> george: romain is working on a11y dev, so he's not really available for epubcheck
17:03:38 <BillMcCoy> q+
17:03:44 <tzviya> ack b
17:04:08 <tzviya> BillMcCoy: Readium/EDRLab is interested in providing help on epubcheck but can't do it alone
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17:05:21 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:05:21 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Bill_Kasdorf, Karen, Tzviya, Rick_Johnson, George, ivan, Garth, BillM, Luc
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17:05:21 <graham_> bye
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17:05:39 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/02-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan
17:05:49 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:05:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items