13:58:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
13:58:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/27-lvtf-irc
13:58:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:58:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:58:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:58:11 <trackbot> Date: 27 April 2017
13:58:13 <allanj> chair: Jim
14:00:24 <allanj> Regrets: Glenda, Erich
14:14:29 <allanj> Agenda+ Adapting Text - color & font
14:14:38 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:14:38 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:14:45 <allanj> present:
14:14:53 <allanj> present+
14:14:58 <allanj> Agenda+ Adapting Text - color & font
14:15:33 <allanj> Agenda+ Resize Content
14:15:45 <allanj> Agenda+ Graphic & control contrast (UA generated affordance)
14:53:40 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
15:02:05 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
15:02:12 <steverep> present+steverep
15:02:42 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:42 <Zakim> Present: allanj, steverep
15:02:46 <shawn> present+ Shawn
15:03:15 <shawn> present+ Marla
15:03:33 <Marla> Marla has joined #lvtf
15:04:26 <laura> present+ Laura
15:04:38 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
15:04:47 <Wayne> Present+
15:05:57 <laura> Extra AGWG meeting on Thurs 27th April: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017AprJun/0341.html
15:07:20 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
15:07:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Resize Content" taken up [from allanj]
15:07:32 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Resize_content_issues_review
15:08:06 <shawn> Alaistair addressed some issues
15:09:26 <allanj> laura: can we move 1.4.4 to A?
15:09:43 <shawn> s/Alaistair/Alastair
15:09:57 <allanj> jim : would like to remove H-scrolling
15:10:54 <shawn> q+
15:11:47 <shawn> ack me
15:12:02 <allanj> shawn: this is our suggestion. depends on what AG decides about replacing SC 2.0 vs 2.1
15:14:24 <allanj> spatial layout, need a better definition
15:14:54 <allanj> are video, tables, IDE exempt
15:15:04 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #lvtf
15:15:09 <allanj> wayne: IDEs should be included
15:15:39 <allanj> wayne: exempt tables and images, but not IDEs
15:16:02 <allanj> ... need semantic navigation
15:18:35 <allanj> scribe: allanj
15:18:43 <allanj> topic: IDE
15:20:01 <allanj> ac: powerpoint online, slide and thumbnails - need all onscreen at same time. Ok at 200%. but beyond things break. there are times when you need many things on the screen at the same time
15:21:11 <allanj> ... maintain 200% for these . Google presentations works up to 200%. having difficulty thinking how to make it work above 200
15:21:40 <laura> Resize Content Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewSC_April25_2017/results#xq10
15:22:28 <allanj> wd: computer aided design tools. useful to have tools available. but if you need the entire screen for the work area. would be better to switch views work area to tools, etc.
15:23:46 <allanj> ac: toolbar on top and side, when you expand the work area diminishes.
15:25:23 <steverep> q+ zooming isn't usually the right answer on those interfaces
15:25:44 <allanj> ac: semantic navigation, and keyboard shortcuts are a different SC. complex interfaces need other affordances that may allow linearization or greater size of content.
15:27:22 <allanj> wd: ms word, ribbon. always eliminate it and use the keyboard. want a different kind of interface. hit alt expand ribbon to fill the screen, then click on part of ribbon then that part expands
15:29:08 <allanj> sr: zoom isn't the answer. you can pop the editor in wordpress to full screen, and reduce it to see more tools.
15:30:10 <allanj> ac: don't see how to word this in this SC. perhaps a Flexible interface SC
15:31:40 <allanj> wd: drop disclaimer, just 400% without hz scrolling.
15:32:44 <allanj> ac: would have to scope to text only.
15:33:53 <allanj> topic: mobile devices and text resize
15:34:35 <allanj> screen width only in testing and understanding
15:38:34 <allanj> action: jim to create definition of spatial layout for Text Resize
15:38:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-98 - Create definition of spatial layout for text resize [on Jim Allan - due 2017-05-04].
15:38:42 <laura> Definition of spacial layout: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Resize_content_issues_review#Definition_of_spacial_layout
15:39:22 <steverep> q+ make sure math is considered in spatial layout
15:40:34 <allanj> sr: make sure math is considered in spatial layout
15:40:47 <allanj> ja: or understanding document
15:42:50 <allanj> ac: math and svg work with media queries. presentation creation is difficult on desktop.
15:43:32 <allanj> ac: perhaps a note - putting IDEs in spatial layout category for now, pending solutions
15:43:39 <allanj> wd: +1
15:46:34 <shawn> ja: issue of OK if not work on mobile ...
15:47:05 <allanj> wd: that is a technology bias.
15:47:49 <allanj> ac: trace comment was about feasibility. there are no example of things that are not feasible ... yet
15:52:46 <allanj> discussion of contrast issue
15:55:25 <steverep> q+ worried about doing research like that but not opposed (e.g. peer-review, ranges of vision, what display is being used, etc.)
15:55:55 <Wayne> q+
15:56:01 <allanj> sr: worried about doing research like that but not opposed (e.g. peer-review, ranges of vision, what display is being used, etc.)
15:57:11 <allanj> ... worried about getting results we can't explain, would need vision problems, display type, etc.
15:57:30 <allanj> ... would be better to have outside research, with a formal statement.
15:59:11 <allanj> ac: understand. if there is other research we can use it. if we use qualitative research - rather than quantitative with ranges and formal stats
16:00:03 <allanj> wd: may be able to use text break points for reading. contrast may be similar to acuity level - can perceive text but not read it.
16:00:58 <allanj> ac: perhaps a honeypot question to really test if person could actually see the content
16:01:32 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #lvtf
16:02:53 <allanj> wd: perhaps contrast limit. Legge - but he used a different scale would need to convert.
16:03:25 <allanj> ac: graphics contrast. need lots of examples in the understanding.
16:03:45 <allanj> ... main feedback on contrast levels. may impact criteria text
16:04:15 <allanj> ... other feed back on graphics objects. can cover in understanding with pictures.
16:05:40 <allanj> ac: please review https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Resize_content_issues_review message the list or Alastair directly with updates
16:06:01 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
16:06:01 <Zakim> agendum 1, Adapting Text - color & font, closed
16:06:02 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:02 <Zakim> 3. Graphic & control contrast (UA generated affordance) [from allanj]
16:06:35 <allanj> zakim, close item 2
16:06:35 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, allanj
16:06:45 <allanj> zakim, open item 1
16:06:45 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Adapting Text - color & font" taken up [from allanj]
16:06:48 <shawn> q?
16:07:02 <allanj> ack 2
16:07:06 <allanj> ack w
16:07:11 <allanj> close item 2
16:07:19 <allanj> open item 1
16:08:28 <allanj> wd: can calculate width of font. we can create an algorithm
16:09:34 <allanj> ... font family - need to be able to fit 10 to 15 character in fovea. have a tight distribution of fonts.
16:09:41 <laura> Can the font metrics be incorporated into our spacing metrics?
16:09:53 <laura> q+
16:10:48 <steverep> Gets to my point - what actually breaks by changing font that doesn't break by changing spacing?
16:10:50 <allanj> ac: so do we need to deal with fonts. if it is just spacing. can we change the spacing, it should cover the font width issue.
16:11:17 <alastairc> steverep font-icons, but we could deal with that elsewhere.
16:12:34 <steverep> Well, technology independecne is still a big issue for Laura to check her blood pressure on :)
16:12:39 <allanj> wd: serif vs san-serif
16:13:43 <allanj> sh: yes there is need to change the font. the point is if people change font then things don't break. but this is covered by spacing. so we don't mention fonts.
16:14:39 <allanj> wd: concerned with fonts.
16:14:55 <laura> ack l
16:15:06 <steverep> q+ font icons are not really an issue in my opinion
16:15:19 <allanj> ac: can change most everything with css
16:15:47 <allanj> wd: need inline semantics. should be covered in 1.3.1
16:18:13 <allanj> wd: can live with not using fonts and using spacing for adapting text.
16:19:36 <allanj> ac: 1.3.1 need to be a standardized way in some spec. to provide semantics in ARIA or HTML
16:20:05 <allanj> ja: icon fonts?
16:20:38 <allanj> sh: need to file issue in specs HTML, ARIA
16:21:12 <laura> q+
16:21:16 <allanj> wd: need identify what things are.
16:21:36 <allanj> ack l
16:23:31 <allanj> lc: do we need to change the spacing to cover font width and letter spacing.
16:24:45 <allanj> wd: the number are fine. there is spacing already added by font.
16:27:53 <allanj> removing font family from Adapting Text SC text, because font width h is very similar to letter spacing. we will address spacing and font family in the understanding document.
16:28:39 <allanj> RESOLUTION: removing font family from Adapting Text SC text, because font width is very similar to letter spacing. we will address spacing and font family in the understanding document.
16:30:37 <allanj> topic: Semantics.
16:31:07 <allanj> sh: need to file an issue with HTML. need to have semantics for sprites, and icon fonts
16:31:21 <allanj> ... should be marked as <img>
16:32:42 <allanj> ac: things which are programmatically available but not visible (popups, icon fonts, background images, sprites). May need an SC
16:33:41 <allanj> ... if you have a span with icon font, and a span with text.  but change font then object vanishes
16:34:12 <allanj> sr: icon font, role=img, then aria label.
16:35:27 <allanj> Issue: need to think about things which are programmatically available but not visible (popups, icon fonts, background images, sprites). May need an SC.
16:35:28 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2 - Need to think about things which are programmatically available but not visible (popups, icon fonts, background images, sprites). may need an sc..  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/track/issues/2/edit>.
16:36:06 <laura> Thanks everyone!
16:36:12 <laura> bye.
16:36:37 <allanj> wd: sprites and other things break High Contrast mode.
16:39:55 <allanj> wd: background image, sprites, and other things need inline semantics..
16:41:25 <allanj> sr: need to get html or aria to require semantics.
16:42:42 <allanj> we: they fit in 1.3.1, you are not using the appropriate role (semantics) when include background images as sprites,
16:43:09 <allanj> we need examples, pictures code.
16:44:57 <allanj> trackbot, end meeting
16:44:57 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:44:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been allanj, steverep, Shawn, Marla, Laura, Wayne
16:45:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:45:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/27-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:45:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:45:06 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/27-lvtf-actions.rdf :
16:45:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jim to create definition of spatial layout for Text Resize [1]
16:45:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/27-lvtf-irc#T15-38-34