11:42:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
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11:42:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:42:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #poe
11:42:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
11:42:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
11:42:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:42:13 <trackbot> Date: 24 April 2017
11:42:50 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170424
11:43:06 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Call agenda for 2017-04-24: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170424
11:43:14 <ivan> Chair: Renato
12:04:33 <James> James has joined #poe
12:24:41 <renato> renato has joined #poe
12:28:51 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:29:09 <michaelS> present+
12:30:09 <CarolineB> CarolineB has joined #poe
12:30:27 <renato> present+ renato
12:30:30 <CarolineB> present+ CarolineB
12:31:01 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian_Ulicny has joined #poe
12:32:14 <ivan> present+
12:32:39 <James> present+
12:33:25 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:33:39 <renato> Chair: renato
12:33:53 <renato> Regrets: ben, philA, victor
12:33:55 <simonstey> simonstey has joined #poe
12:34:11 <Sabrina> Sabrina has joined #poe
12:35:00 <Sabrina> present+ sabrina
12:35:01 <simonstey> present+
12:35:32 <simonstey> agenda?
12:35:58 <renato> Approve minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-poe-minutes
12:36:06 <simonstey> scribe: Brian_Ulicny
12:36:11 <Brian_Ulicny> Approve last  week's minutes?
12:36:14 <ivan> scribenick: Brian_Ulicny
12:36:15 <michaelS> scibe: Brian_Ulicny
12:36:26 <Brian_Ulicny> Approved.
12:37:27 <Brian_Ulicny> Will we meet next week (May Day)?  Decision is to not meet next week.
12:37:45 <Brian_Ulicny> Resoled: No meeting May 1, 2017.
12:37:49 <Brian_Ulicny> Resolved.
12:38:06 <Brian_Ulicny> No feedback received from wide review in the last period.
12:38:19 <renato> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-privacy/2017AprJun/0002.html
12:39:32 <Brian_Ulicny> Horizontal review feedback from privacy group.
12:40:04 <Brian_Ulicny> Not clear what the issues are.  Need to circle back to this group to understand.
12:41:38 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "this is not about keystroke logging, so seems safe to answer no".
12:42:03 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "OK, I will send that response to privacy group and report back".
12:42:50 <Brian_Ulicny> Internationalization?
12:45:04 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian: I was not sure if we were confining ourselves to UTF-8.
12:45:13 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: Yes, we should say UTF-8.
12:45:27 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: Where do these issues arise?
12:45:43 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: Dublic Core values.
12:45:49 <Brian_Ulicny> Perhaps.
12:46:35 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian: URIs or IRIs?
12:46:39 <ivan> q+
12:48:37 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian: I only filled out the required field.
12:48:41 <Brian_Ulicny> fields.
12:49:27 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: the problem is things like bi-directional text: arabic text with embedded Latin characters.  The problem is you can't encode this in JSON.
12:49:47 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "not sure how the internationalization group handles this these days"
12:50:29 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "our textual data is metadata.  Maybe we can get away with ignoring this.  This may be the only area where there is an issue."
12:50:44 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "They were working on a general approach to this in JSON."
12:51:54 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "The IRI issue is another one.  We are essentially an RDF vocabulary.  The RDF spec very clearly refers to IRIs, not URIs.  Since this is our serialization, we should stick with that.  We should say that we use IRIs everywhere."
12:52:31 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "So let's just substitute IRI for every instance of URI in the spec."
12:52:39 <ivan> q-
12:53:10 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "So we should be done with internationalization.  Brian, please go over and update based on this discussion and send again."
12:53:39 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "So due date for all feedback is April 30."
12:53:59 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "So that's it for Internationalization."
12:54:10 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Needs+WG+Decision%22
12:54:16 <ivan> Topic: Github issues
12:54:45 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/117
12:54:49 <ivan> i/Horizontal review/Topic: Horizontal reviews/
12:55:32 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "How to characterize 'Complex Constraints'"
12:56:03 <simonstey> sounds good to me
12:56:25 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "We are going to rename 'Complex Constraints' as 'Compound Constraints' (cf. 'Atomic Constraints')"
12:56:45 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Everyone okay with that?"
12:56:49 <michaelS> +1
12:56:55 <Brian_Ulicny> Silence = agreement.
12:57:16 <Brian_Ulicny> So 'complex constraints' now 'compound constraints'
12:57:23 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/46
12:57:47 <Brian_Ulicny> Next issue: in JSON-LD, what does the context file look like?
12:58:11 <Brian_Ulicny> We've got one context ld file.
12:58:29 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/vocab/ODRL22.jsonld
12:59:13 <simonstey> +q
12:59:20 <ivan> q+
12:59:27 <Brian_Ulicny> This file contains all the terms in our ontology.  Stuart moved this from his Dropbox.
12:59:41 <simonstey> "action": "odrl:play",
13:00:16 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "should we maintain the odrl namespace in this example"
13:00:48 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "We need to be consistent"
13:01:07 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "The context file should be more prominent."
13:02:07 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "either we should have odrl:action: odrl:play or action: play"
13:02:09 <michaelS> q+
13:02:45 <simonstey> "play": "odrl:play", https://github.com/w3c/poe/blob/gh-pages/vocab/ODRL22.jsonld#L96
13:03:27 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "my experience is that the predicates should be in the context file, but the objects are not guaranteed to be in the namespace, so the example is correct."
13:03:36 <Brian_Ulicny> "as is".
13:04:59 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "if play is only an object, it shouldn't be in the context file"
13:05:03 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "yes"
13:05:25 <ivan> http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/model/wd2/#intended-audience
13:06:39 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/ns/anno.jsonld
13:07:41 <simonstey> (which is the whole point of including a context)
13:08:04 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "I'm with Michael on this."
13:08:44 <simonstey> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/111
13:09:02 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "We refer to OID in the specs.  Let's try to avoid inconsistency here."
13:09:39 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "let's clean up these minor inconsistencies."
13:09:56 <Brian_Ulicny> "let's put the cleaned up json file"
13:10:38 <Brian_Ulicny> "online."
13:10:48 <Brian_Ulicny> "let's look at a specific example."
13:11:09 <renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/model/#policy
13:11:17 <renato> Example 1
13:11:29 <simonstey> s/"@context": {         "odrl": "http://www.w3.org/ns/odrl/2/"/"@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/odrl.jsonld",/
13:13:29 <ivan> "@context" : "https://www.w3.org/ns/????.jsonld",
13:13:48 <simonstey> s/"@type": "odrl:Set", /"type": "Set",/
13:13:50 <ivan> "type" : "Set"
13:13:51 <Brian_Ulicny> "This is how the context statement should be"
13:14:00 <ivan> "action": "read",
13:14:18 <Brian_Ulicny> "ID or OID also"
13:14:33 <Brian_Ulicny> "Should show to Greg Kellog ? to be sure."
13:15:03 <Brian_Ulicny> "Need to be consistent with ID or UID"
13:16:45 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "is it okay to put this in /ns?"
13:17:02 <renato> https://www.w3.org/ns/odrl.jsonld
13:17:04 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Yes, and we will change the URIs"
13:17:24 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "Need confirmation from Stuart"
13:17:34 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "Yes, and this can change at any time."
13:18:33 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/139
13:18:34 <Brian_Ulicny> REnato: "two proposals to deprecate two section"
13:18:45 <simonstey> +1
13:18:59 <Brian_Ulicny> "how to deal with undefined actions.  This section doesn't add much value."
13:19:10 <michaelS> q+
13:19:17 <simonstey> q-
13:19:19 <ivan> ack simonstey
13:19:22 <ivan> ack ivan
13:19:24 <ivan> ack michaelS
13:19:27 <simonstey> also relevant https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/105
13:19:31 <michaelS> q+
13:19:40 <Brian_Ulicny> "what should you do when you come across a previously unseen action?"
13:19:44 <ivan> ODRL jsonld context is in place: https://www.w3.org/ns/odrl.jsonld
13:20:11 <simonstey> ack michaelS
13:20:31 <renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/model/#undefined
13:20:48 <Brian_Ulicny> Ivan: "3.1.4  - undefined action is different than unsupported action"
13:21:16 <Brian_Ulicny> "what is it to be _defined_ action?"
13:24:14 <Brian_Ulicny> REnato: "WE need to decide how strongly we want to embrace this, or remove it?"
13:24:31 <simonstey> +q
13:25:22 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "in favor of removing this section.  In favor of relating new terms to previous ones."
13:25:44 <michaelS> q+
13:26:02 <Brian_Ulicny> "let's define dependencies among actions."
13:26:24 <simonstey> ack simonstey
13:26:43 <Brian_Ulicny> Michael: "wouldn't this be a job for the definition of the action, to specify its relations?"
13:27:22 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "this would be similar to SKOS vocabulary broader-than, etc."
13:28:46 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "adding actions is not part of a profile"
13:28:56 <simonstey> ack michaelS
13:29:12 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/138
13:29:25 <renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/model/#conflict
13:30:14 <simonstey> +q
13:30:18 <Brian_Ulicny> Renato: "For next time, conflict policies"
13:30:45 <Brian_Ulicny> Simon: "this needs a lot of discussion.  Totally against removing it."
13:32:22 <Brian_Ulicny> "print more than 10 times and print less than 5 times. ..."
13:32:30 <Brian_Ulicny> "needs a lot of discussion."
13:34:18 <Brian_Ulicny> AOB?
13:34:38 <Brian_Ulicny> meeting adjourned.  Next meeting in 2 weeks.
13:35:09 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:35:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-poe-minutes.html ivan
13:35:19 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:35:19 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:35:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been michaelS, renato, CarolineB, ivan, James, Brian_Ulicny, sabrina, simonstey
13:35:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:35:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-poe-minutes.html trackbot
13:35:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:35:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items