14:24:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
14:24:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-coga-irc
14:24:48 <LisaSeeman> trackbot, start meeting
14:24:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 389
14:24:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2642
14:24:54 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:24:54 <trackbot> Date: 24 April 2017
14:24:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:24:58 <LisaSeeman> rrsagent, make logs public
14:25:15 <LisaSeeman> regrets: thad
14:27:27 <LisaSeeman> agenda: this
14:27:29 <LisaSeeman> agenda+  review SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, instuctions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1,
14:27:30 <LisaSeeman> issues: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3ACOGA
14:27:32 <LisaSeeman> agenda + coga suplement to wcag - will be brought to the call tomorow
14:27:34 <LisaSeeman> agenda+  LVTF persolization approach (10 minets)
14:27:35 <LisaSeeman> agenda+  coga persolization approach  (10 minets) see the github project and google doc on implementations
14:27:37 <LisaSeeman> We also now have a trello board to-do list What have we missed for issues page
14:27:38 <LisaSeeman> agenda+ discussion   -should embrace a single method
14:27:40 <LisaSeeman> agenda+ what would coga and LVTF like from each other (for example I would love some low vision json skins for our personization framework and maybe support of joint wrding for SC issue #6)
14:27:41 <LisaSeeman> agenda + next steps
14:27:43 <LisaSeeman> agenda+ be done
14:58:41 <allanj-off> allanj-off has joined #coga
15:18:48 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
15:18:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Are we happy with the prioritization at  https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html" taken up [from Mike_Pluke]
15:19:01 <LisaSeeman> lol
15:19:07 <LisaSeeman> that was last week
15:19:14 <LisaSeeman> zakim , item 5
15:19:26 <LisaSeeman> zakim, agenda  item 5
15:19:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda  item 5', LisaSeeman
15:19:36 <LisaSeeman> zakim, item 5
15:19:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'item 5', LisaSeeman
15:19:45 <LisaSeeman> zakim, topic5
15:19:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'topic5', LisaSeeman
15:19:51 <LisaSeeman> zakim, topic 5
15:19:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'topic 5', LisaSeeman
15:20:00 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next topic
15:20:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', LisaSeeman
15:20:17 <LisaSeeman> zakim, item 5
15:20:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'item 5', LisaSeeman
15:20:23 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
15:20:23 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Upcoming calls :  •	Joint COGA & LVTF telecon - Personalization    •	Re: upcoming calls for COGA" taken up [from Mike_Pluke]
15:21:28 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item 2
15:21:28 <Zakim> agendum 2, Upcoming calls :  •	Joint COGA & LVTF telecon - Personalization    •	Re: upcoming calls for COGA, closed
15:21:30 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:21:30 <Zakim> 3. please reffrence comments and feedback for your SC. Example is at https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/30 were each issue that discusses it has a comment that reffrences the
15:21:30 <Zakim> ... core issue (like https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/236) [from Mike_Pluke]
15:21:34 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item 3
15:21:34 <Zakim> agendum 3, please reffrence comments and feedback for your SC. Example is at https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/30 were each issue that discusses it has a comment that reffrences
15:21:37 <Zakim> ... the core issue (like https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/236), closed
15:21:37 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:21:37 <Zakim> 4. Re: URGENT Request from the Education and Outreach Working Group McSorley, Jan [from Mike_Pluke]
15:21:45 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item 4
15:21:45 <Zakim> agendum 4, Re: URGENT Request from the Education and Outreach Working Group McSorley, Jan, closed
15:21:47 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:21:47 <Zakim> 5. are we happy with the new wordi ng for the four reworded SC (pesonlization,  plain langage, provide help and accessible authertifcation) [from Mike_Pluke]
15:21:56 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item 5
15:21:56 <Zakim> agendum 5, are we happy with the new wordi ng for the four reworded SC (pesonlization,  plain langage, provide help and accessible authertifcation), closed
15:21:59 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:21:59 <Zakim> 6. review SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, instuctions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1,
15:21:59 <Zakim> ... [from LisaSeeman]
15:36:36 <LisaSeeman> regrets: Thad
15:44:44 <allanj> present+
15:50:36 <LisaSeeman> ping me if you need the passwoed for webex
15:53:59 <LisaSeeman> present+
15:57:12 <Marla> Marla has joined #coga
15:59:45 <LisaSeeman> call starting now
16:02:15 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #coga
16:03:05 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #coga
16:03:21 <erich> erich has joined #coga
16:03:27 <LisaSeeman> scribe: Mike_Pluke
16:03:37 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
16:03:37 <Zakim> agendum 6. "review SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, instuctions:
16:03:39 <Zakim> ... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1," taken up [from LisaSeeman]
16:05:26 <WayneD> WayneD has joined #COGA
16:06:47 <Mike_Pluke> For tomorrows Coga call decided to switch to "Minimize errors" and "timed events" as they are easier to get through
16:08:02 <Mike_Pluke> Moving to a strategy of having "pillars" of acceptable Coga SCs in 2.1 with a supplemental document covering other issues
16:08:17 <kirkwood> present+
16:08:39 <Mike_Pluke> present+ Mike_Pluke
16:08:57 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
16:09:39 <Mike_Pluke> Volunteers sought to work with Lisa on choosing which things should be moved to the supplement
16:11:31 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
16:11:31 <Zakim> agendum 7. "coga suplement to wcag - will be brought to the call tomorow" taken up [from LisaSeeman]
16:11:43 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item
16:11:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', LisaSeeman
16:11:55 <LisaSeeman> zakim, close item 7
16:11:55 <Zakim> agendum 7, coga suplement to wcag - will be brought to the call tomorow, closed
16:11:57 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:57 <Zakim> 8. LVTF persolization approach (10 minets) [from LisaSeeman]
16:13:02 <Mike_Pluke> First LV approach described by Jim Allan
16:13:28 <Mike_Pluke> User needs document created first and then chose specific SCs.
16:14:12 <Mike_Pluke> A change any element on the web page was too general - so went for lower-scoped specific SCs
16:15:26 <Mike_Pluke> Implementation directions have been looked at - CSS modification (e.g. stylish) and also looked at PDF implemtntations
16:15:57 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
16:15:57 <Zakim> agendum 8. "LVTF persolization approach (10 minets)" taken up [from LisaSeeman]
16:16:44 <LisaSeeman> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/
16:17:54 <Mike_Pluke> Coga more ambitious
16:18:00 <LisaSeeman> https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation
16:18:11 <Mike_Pluke> Has an approach that relies on personalization
16:19:05 <Mike_Pluke> ARIA-based and a open source plugin that reads JSON settings file and will adapt the page appropriately
16:20:39 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa screen-shared the personalization demo
16:21:48 <Pietro> Pietro has joined #coga
16:23:25 <Pietro> Present+ Pietro
16:23:30 <Mike_Pluke> Showed page simplification that showed only "Important" items and then only "Critical" items
16:24:13 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
16:24:13 <Zakim> agendum 9. "coga persolization approach  (10 minets) see the github project and google doc on implementations" taken up [from LisaSeeman]
16:24:20 <Mike_Pluke> Page authors have to add semantics to pages to identify things like "important" and "critical"
16:24:59 <allanj> can you post the link to the demo page
16:25:22 <Mike_Pluke> LVTF have been working on similar lines - but looking at how the JSON files can be built (the other end i.e. collecting user preferences)
16:26:21 <LisaSeeman> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/
16:27:39 <Mike_Pluke> Alistair queries the spec - whether attributes should begin with "coga-", rather than "aria-". Aria people though that this approach would create ARIA bloat.
16:28:30 <Mike_Pluke> Alistair believes that dividing audiences this way is a bad idea
16:28:39 <Jan> +1 to not dividing audiences
16:29:03 <allanj> +1 to Alastair
16:29:49 <Mike_Pluke> Wayne suggests that perhaps the prefix should be something like person- to indicate personalization
16:30:53 <Mike_Pluke> ARIA has been based on mapping to the accessibility API of the operating system. Coga and LV issues relate to things that are in the browser.
16:31:16 <LisaSeeman> https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/tree/master/json
16:31:46 <LisaSeeman> https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/blob/master/json/profile_exmaple_1.json
16:32:04 <Mike_Pluke> Many people assume that there will be assitive technologies involved, but for many people this is not the case (and they adjust things in the underlying settings)
16:33:32 <Mike_Pluke> Jim asks if this is created by a third party or the responsibility of authors.
16:34:11 <LisaSeeman> q?
16:34:30 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa suggests that authors add the semantics.
16:35:17 <Mike_Pluke> Alistair suggests pushback because of the increase of testing because of the the personalization options
16:36:10 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa suggests a way to minimize the amount of options is to restrict them to a maximum of five options
16:37:30 <allanj> LVTF updated the Low Vision Personalization Requirements https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Personalization_Requirements
16:37:39 <Mike_Pluke> Someone has made a text script - a code file in your base directory- ?????????
16:37:48 <LisaSeeman> https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/tree/master/inject-coga
16:38:54 <LisaSeeman> add the maping in a text file for the whole site or temlate
16:38:59 <LisaSeeman> Q?
16:39:45 <MichaelC> present+
16:39:53 <LisaSeeman> zakim, next item
16:39:53 <Zakim> agendum 10. "discussion   -should embrace a single method" taken up [from LisaSeeman]
16:40:37 <Mike_Pluke> Wayne propose that the fundamental thing that both groups want for personalization is non-interference
16:41:58 <janina> present+
16:42:04 <Mike_Pluke> What parameters do we need so that the material can be personalized and what semantics do authors need to address
16:43:34 <LisaSeeman> q+
16:43:38 <Mike_Pluke> Alistair's concern is the extensibility of this over the long-term rather than an unmanageable "hotch-potch"
16:43:40 <janina> q+
16:44:54 <Mike_Pluke> LV needs "linearize" and coga needs "rearrange", but these just need to be there and it doesn't matter who they are there for (e.g. LV or COGA)
16:46:12 <Mike_Pluke> ]May need LV and COGA volunteers to look at a site to see what needs to be changed.
16:46:55 <Mike_Pluke> Jim suggests that LV works off the CSS whereas COGA have invented a lot of additional things to personalize
16:47:56 <LisaSeeman> ack l
16:47:56 <Mike_Pluke> Need to identify what additional things that are not in CSS that need to be personalized
16:48:15 <LisaSeeman> ack j
16:48:40 <Jan> present+
16:48:51 <alastairc> present+ alastairc
16:49:10 <Mike_Pluke> Janina says that the need to meet the requirements of different groups has been an idea that has been kicking around for a long time
16:49:23 <allanj> balance user need with developer effort
16:49:24 <Mike_Pluke> INDIE UI was meant to cover personalization
16:49:59 <Mike_Pluke> Need to get people together to identify what needs to be done.
16:50:21 <Mike_Pluke> Research Issues TF think that this topic is within this scope.
16:51:33 <Mike_Pluke> A group of people can contribute to identifying the needs and categorizing the personalization
16:52:16 <Mike_Pluke> Wayne may have a site that could be used to look at and work with, Jim also identified some possibilities
16:53:46 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa: There is a small chance that we could use a small part of the BBC
16:58:09 <kirkwood> Lisa: I may be able to NYC.gov and/or MOPD [Mayor’s Office of People with Disabilites] on board
16:59:50 <LisaSeeman> john, very cool
17:00:01 <Mike_Pluke> Wayne says that we must recognize that testing will get more difficult.
17:01:19 <Mike_Pluke> WCAG 2 was based on categorical sets whereas what we are talking about a continuum of options. Will need to identify a set of test case data.
17:01:44 <Jan> I have to drop for another call, but want to stay in the loop on the extra meetings.
17:03:22 <Jan> Lisa - you had set up an extra personalization call on Mondays at 9:00 central time - I don't know if that would be an option or not, but wanted to suggest it.
17:03:43 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa will do a Doodle Poll to find a time for the joint meeting on the personalization.
17:04:00 <LisaSeeman> action: lisa make a poll and tell everyone
17:04:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Make a poll and tell everyone [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2017-05-01].
17:06:03 <LisaSeeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:06:11 <LisaSeeman>  rrsagent, create minutes
17:06:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-coga-minutes.html LisaSeeman
17:07:23 <LisaSeeman> zakim, please part
17:07:23 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been kirkwood, Pietro, Jim_S, allanj, LisaSeeman, Mike_Pluke, MichaelC, janina, Jan, alastairc
17:07:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:07:34 <LisaSeeman> rrsagent, please part
17:07:34 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-coga-actions.rdf :
17:07:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: lisa make a poll and tell everyone [1]
17:07:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/24-coga-irc#T17-04-00