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16:01:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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16:01:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
16:01:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:01:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
16:01:04 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2017
16:01:28 <joe> agenda+ F2F
16:01:32 <joe> agenda+ TPAC
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16:01:55 <joe> agenda+ PR progress
16:02:13 <rtoyg_m_> present rtoyg_m
16:02:17 <hoch> +present hoch
16:02:19 <rtoyg_m_> present+ rtoyg_m
16:02:29 <joe> agenda+ issues without milestone
16:02:33 <joe> agenda+ issues requiring discussion
16:02:36 <rtoyg_m_> +present rtoyg_m
16:02:51 <joe> present+ joe
16:02:57 <hoch> present+ hoch
16:03:42 <padenot> padenot has joined #audio
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16:06:14 <joe> padenot we see you twice in the WebEx list but neither one is connected
16:06:43 <ChrisL> also you can try connecting vie WebRTC in Firefox, now
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16:07:51 <joe> zakim, next agendum
16:07:51 <Zakim> agendum 1. "F2F" taken up [from joe]
16:08:30 <ChrisL> CSAIL, 32 Vassar St. room D463 Star
16:08:57 <ChrisL> Closest Red line T stop is Kendal MIT
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16:09:30 <joe> zakim, next agendum
16:09:30 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC" taken up [from joe]
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16:10:12 <jdsmith> present+ jdsmith
16:10:33 <joe> zakim, next agendum
16:10:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "PR progress" taken up [from joe]
16:10:47 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pulls
16:11:03 <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
16:11:23 <ChrisL> padenot_: merged a number of PR this week
16:11:29 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1204
16:11:58 <ChrisL> padenot_: lgtm
16:12:02 <ghaudiobot> [web-audio-api] joeberkovitz closed pull request #1204: Disallow empty string as AWP registration key. (gh-pages...1172-no-empty-AWP-names) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1204
16:12:03 <ChrisL> joe: merging now
16:12:13 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1201
16:13:29 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1200
16:13:41 <ghaudiobot> [web-audio-api] rtoy closed pull request #1201: Fix #1157: Add attributes to  Media{Element,Stream}AudioSourceNode (gh-pages...1157-add-attributes-again-for-measn) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1201
16:15:14 <ghaudiobot> [web-audio-api] joeberkovitz closed pull request #1200: Reword treatment of starting time for AudioScheduledSourceNode (gh-pages...915-subsample-accurate-start) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1200
16:15:30 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1170
16:15:54 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/pull/1065
16:17:04 <joe> zakim, next agendum
16:17:04 <Zakim> agendum 4. "issues without milestone" taken up [from joe]
16:17:23 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+no%3Amilestone
16:17:53 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1205
16:19:23 <ChrisL> joe: polishing factory methods not very important, lets close it
16:19:35 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1203
16:20:58 <ChrisL> ray: adds nothing, lets remove it
16:21:08 <ChrisL> joe: yes, but v1 blocker?
16:21:14 <ChrisL> ray: no
16:21:27 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1202
16:22:41 <ChrisL> joe: ok, no way to stop routing audio to the node. How big a use case where a nde switches from serving to not serving the graph
16:23:00 <ChrisL> padenot_: have had people requesting this feature, told them it can't be done
16:23:08 <ChrisL> joe: why?
16:23:44 <ChrisL> padenot_: different playback pipelines, with normal media and a single media element and msc to get decrypted media
16:23:59 <ChrisL> ... didn't want to have two media elements
16:24:14 <ChrisL> joe: sounds like a v.next
16:24:47 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1199
16:25:24 <ChrisL> roy: hongchan reminded me convolver node can be set more than once
16:26:02 <ChrisL> hoch: discussed at tpac 3 years ago. cwilso argued against making it unchangeable. Wanted to change impulse response on the fly
16:26:08 <ChrisL> padenot_: too late to change now
16:26:35 <ChrisL> padenot_: on ABSN can't set multiple times but convolver you can
16:27:00 <ChrisL> ... should initialise it
16:27:43 <ChrisL> joe: think this is an error on my part, adding settable once to convolver and didn't do it
16:27:55 <ChrisL> ... wait, did and it got taken out
16:28:20 <ChrisL> ray: bad merge maybe
16:28:32 <ChrisL> joe: will look at this and fix it
16:29:20 <ChrisL> ray: are we keeping convolver settable multiple times or not?
16:29:40 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/667
16:30:01 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/667#issuecomment-249143280
16:31:04 <ChrisL> joe: will look back on what we decided
16:31:45 <ChrisL> jerry: we had a PR and it got dropped?
16:31:59 <ChrisL> joe: yes. wait, seeing that language in the spec!
16:33:01 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1194https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1194
16:33:02 <ChrisL> joe: OK we need to say it is initialised to false. And spec text on convolver stays as it is, settable once
16:33:04 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1194
16:33:55 <ChrisL> hoch: domenic asked me to fix the IDL because handler being part of the node does not make sense, can't handle the event
16:34:23 <ChrisL> ... anne is asking why it is impossible to be an event target
16:34:40 <ChrisL> ... want to minimise functionality of descending data
16:34:51 <ChrisL> ... cause a lot of GC
16:35:09 <ChrisL> ... discussion ongoing
16:35:59 <ChrisL> ... anne and domenic are looking more at the whole web platform while we want the audio worklet to work well for its intended purpose
16:36:19 <ChrisL> joe: hooking it up to worklet causes this uncertainty
16:36:49 <ChrisL> padenot_: web platform implies some things that are complicated and unclear. audio api can't use the normal event loop
16:37:17 <ChrisL> ... we can do our thing and have patterns that resemble the normal web platform. but not exactly the same
16:38:12 <ChrisL> padenot_: issue is to not have an event handler
16:38:40 <ChrisL> hoch: they want to expose event target on worklet
16:39:08 <ChrisL> padenot_: common infrastructure is good but they don't understand at first the specific needs of audio
16:39:39 <ChrisL> present: Joe, Jerry, Paul, Hongchan, Ray, Chris
16:40:06 <ChrisL> joe: what about the very last comment on GC?
16:40:27 <ChrisL> padenot_: yes, transferable solves this, you bet a pointer instead.
16:41:04 <ChrisL> ... you get the buffer inside the worklet and treat it how you want. You can let it GC (not smart) or send in back for GC on the main thread
16:41:17 <ChrisL> joe: okay, let this active thread continue for a bit
16:41:25 <ChrisL> ray: v1 blocker?
16:41:50 <ChrisL> padenot_: yes. important to make sure we address our needed use cases and efficiently access large buffers is critical
16:42:20 <ChrisL> padenot_: worklet has always been a blocker, necessary to resolve, implement and ship for v1
16:43:31 <ChrisL> padenot_: anne's suggestion might be worth it
16:43:46 <ChrisL> ... get transferable for free
16:45:29 <ChrisL> define a normal event loop, get the buffer before rendering. ordering important
16:45:55 <ChrisL> ray: we are implementing now and this changes things a lot
16:46:46 <ChrisL> padenot_: pretty lightweight, bu requires some sort of event loop
16:47:35 <ChrisL> joe: we should not let other groups uncertainties halt our progress. worry that may be the case here
16:47:55 <ChrisL> padenot_: agreed
16:48:04 <ChrisL> ... need to chat more and explain more
16:48:05 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1193
16:48:30 <ChrisL> hoch: this one is easy, see summary at end of thread
16:48:39 <ChrisL> joe: is this a v1 blocker?
16:48:57 <ChrisL> hoch: yes
16:48:58 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1188
16:49:29 <ChrisL> chris: suggest closing the 'do nothing' one. not useful
16:49:42 <ChrisL> padenot_: was wanting to close it after discussion
16:49:46 <ChrisL> joe: lets close
16:50:13 <ChrisL> jerry: there are workarounds, this is just for linking different status
16:50:28 <ChrisL> padenot_: big audio apps just use agin nodes everywhere
16:50:39 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1182
16:51:15 <ChrisL> ray: can't create a type error in chrome. should be handled at the binding layer, like range errors
16:51:36 <ChrisL> padenot_: how do you do that at the binding layer, in IDL? or is it spec text?
16:51:44 <ChrisL> ray: not sure
16:52:23 <ChrisL> ... these are enums except for range error etc which are not the same type
16:52:46 <ChrisL> ... we already throw range error
16:53:07 <ChrisL> padenot_: like range errors, more informative, it is the right type but out of range
16:53:18 <ChrisL> ray: will follow up internally
16:53:30 <joe> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22V1+Blocker%22+sort%3Acreated-asc
16:54:08 <ChrisL> 8 open blockers, want to be zero by f2f in June
16:54:31 <ChrisL> padenot_: after fixing constructor I can get to the dynamics compressor
16:55:42 <ChrisL> chris: lots of little PR should help
16:56:29 <ChrisL> padenot_: yes it will be fine
16:56:58 <ChrisL> ray: IDL is frozen after the constructor stuff, we can update to latest respec after that and it will fix it
16:57:55 <ChrisL> jerry: ordering is similar but not identical. wav format extensible is a very old spec. creates some problems
16:58:03 <ChrisL> padenot_: we need to pick something
16:58:15 <ChrisL> joe: we did, we picked smpte
16:58:27 <ChrisL> jerry: sorting out with media pipeline folks
16:58:57 <ChrisL> padenot_: we use smpte in Gecko, not set in stone, was unspecced so we went for that
16:59:16 <ChrisL> ... remap channels soconsistent across all codecs and containers
16:59:55 <ChrisL> joe: next call in 2 weeks
16:59:58 <ChrisL> (adjourned)
17:00:03 <ChrisL> chair: Joe
17:00:14 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/13-audio-minutes.html ChrisL
17:00:40 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
17:00:42 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/13-audio-minutes.html ChrisL
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19:31:45 <ghaudiobot> [web-audio-api] svgeesus pushed 1 new commit to 1093-render-quantum: https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/77201b6c95cecbdc51b30bf1b24510f66aa197e6
19:31:45 <ghaudiobot> web-audio-api/1093-render-quantum 77201b6 Chris Lilley: fix links
19:37:47 <ghaudiobot> [web-audio-api] svgeesus pushed 1 new commit to 1093-render-quantum: https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/commit/c0285a1a07d281589acd5de8ecdfc8abd68b414c
19:37:47 <ghaudiobot> web-audio-api/1093-render-quantum c0285a1 Chris Lilley: fix links