11:03:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:03:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-wot-irc
11:04:04 <jhund> Zakim, pick a scribe
11:04:04 <Zakim> I don't who is present, jhund
11:04:26 <jhund> present+ Johannes_Hund
11:04:30 <jhund> Zakim, pick a scribe
11:04:30 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Johannes_Hund
11:05:01 <zkis> present+ Zoltan_Kis
11:05:19 <dsr> present+
11:05:33 <kaz> kaz has joined #wot
11:05:35 <yingying> present+ yingying
11:06:06 <kaz> zakim, pick a scribe
11:06:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Zoltan_Kis
11:06:44 <kaz> scribenick: zkis
11:07:12 <kaz> Meeting: WoT WG - Scripting
11:07:17 <zkis> jhund: 2 main topics: architecture, WoT runtime, scripts model
11:07:24 <zkis> jhund: 2 open pull requests
11:07:29 <zkis> jhund: open issues
11:07:36 <kaz> present+ Kaz, Dave, Johannes, Kazuaki, Uday, Yingying, Zoltan
11:08:06 <jhund> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/2
11:09:22 <zkis> * losing voice on WebEx
11:10:57 <kaz> pullrequest 21
11:14:15 <kaz> discussion on remote things
11:14:33 <kaz> vs local things
11:15:05 <kaz> creating things locally/remotely depends on the things: description
11:16:00 <kaz> rest interface to expose the things: capability
11:16:39 <kaz> we'll need some kind of management capability?
11:17:32 <kaz> need to define protocols
11:17:39 <kaz> but it:s up to bindings
11:17:55 <kaz> s/it:s/it's/
11:18:10 <kaz> present+ Michele
11:18:33 <kaz> we don't need to expose scripting API level
11:19:06 <kaz> concrete protocols depend on underlying implementations
11:19:21 <dsr> q+
11:19:53 <kaz> runtime has multiple event loops?
11:21:09 <dsr> q?
11:21:40 <kaz> if we agree it's OK to let multiple scripts in parallel that would be possible
11:22:05 <kaz_> kaz_ has joined #wot
11:23:06 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
11:23:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:23:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:24:02 <dsr> q?
11:24:06 <kaz> zkis: who would access which device?
11:24:39 <kaz> ack d
11:24:47 <kaz> dsr: I'm using node.js
11:24:56 <kaz> ... I have an application folder
11:25:25 <kaz> ... could be done for runtime or initial startup phase
11:25:42 <kaz> ... modularity with each script
11:25:48 <kaz> ... with some specific namespace
11:25:54 <kaz> ... authentication data access
11:26:06 <kaz> ... our security TF is a bit behind
11:26:59 <kaz> zkis: what kind of mechanism is implemented in things?
11:27:07 <kaz> ... what is the use case?
11:27:29 <kaz> ... modifying existing exposed things, etc.?
11:27:48 <kaz> jhund: we've implemented what Dave mentioned
11:28:00 <kaz> ... run on the same event loop
11:28:25 <kaz> ... however, "Things" could represent devices
11:29:04 <kaz> zkis: we're doing similar things...
11:29:19 <kaz> ... but seems a bit different from the Scripting APIs
11:29:42 <kaz> jhund: you could do the same by adding something to the WoT object
11:29:55 <kaz> zkis: that's called action
11:30:12 <kaz> jhund: how to let the runtime run the script?
11:31:41 <kaz> s|pullrequest 21|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/21 pull request 21|
11:31:58 <kaz> i|pull request 21|scribenick: kaz|
11:32:17 <kaz> jhund: mentions the voting use case
11:32:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:32:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:32:30 <kaz> ... running within a specific runtime?
11:32:45 <kaz> ... or several scripts working together
11:33:21 <kaz> q+
11:33:44 <kaz> zkis: you can add actions
11:33:47 <kaz> ... and run them later
11:33:54 <kaz> juhd: how to handle them?
11:34:04 <kaz> zkis: dictionary for action definitions?
11:34:19 <kaz> ... serialized by the binding capability
11:34:21 <kaz> q?
11:34:58 <kaz> jhund: interesting to consider how multiple voter work together
11:35:10 <kaz> ... actions from voters
11:35:18 <kaz> ... vote goes up
11:35:57 <kaz> zkis: we have to discuss security
11:36:08 <kaz> dsr: simpler concept would be better
11:37:28 <kaz> kaz: maybe we could start with a simple example with only 2 voters
11:37:40 <kaz> jhund: runtime A vs runtime B
11:38:06 <kaz> ... (shows some example script)
11:38:28 <kaz> node-wot/blob/master/examples/scripts/counter.js
11:38:59 <kaz> s|node-wot|https://github.com/thingweb/node-wot/|
11:39:07 <kaz> s|//|/|
11:39:39 <kaz> jhund: would put ideas on the "whiteboard"
11:39:47 <kaz> ... having 2 runtimes
11:39:55 <kaz> ... red one and blue one
11:40:15 <kaz> s/red one/red one (A)/
11:40:22 <kaz> s/blue one/blue one (B)/
11:40:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:40:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-wot-minutes.html kaz
11:40:45 <kaz> Chair: Johannes
11:41:41 <kaz> zkis: sounds like a definition of a "Thing"
11:42:36 <kaz> ... we're missing one more action
11:42:55 <kaz> ... "modifying things" capability
11:43:06 <kaz> s/action/capability/
11:43:35 <kaz> ... if you want to use/modify some "Thing", you can add an additional action
11:43:53 <kaz> dsr: access control between A and B
11:43:58 <kaz> ... management API
11:44:15 <kaz> ... so we need some basic management capability
11:44:36 <kaz> ... how to avoid conflict?
11:45:36 <dsr> Dave: it sounds like we need a remote management interface to install, start and  stop things. This needs the appropriate security model.
11:46:08 <kaz> q?
11:46:11 <kaz> q-
11:46:13 <kaz> q+
11:46:37 <yingying_> yingying_ has joined #wot
11:46:42 <dsr> Separately, we need to consider how to resolve conflicts e.g. when several clients have conflicting updates on a thing
11:47:06 <kaz> jhund: do I have the right for A or does B have the right?
11:47:19 <kaz> ... when I want to create a new Thing
11:47:31 <kaz> zkis: you control B's description
11:48:18 <kaz> ... A can change anything
11:48:27 <kaz> ... A has to resolve conflicts
11:48:32 <kaz> ... B is just a runtime
11:48:49 <kaz> ... A is a temporary thing
11:49:31 <kaz> ... channels depend on underlying mechanism
11:49:53 <kaz> q?
11:49:55 <dsr> q+
11:50:45 <dsr> ack kaz
11:52:18 <zkis> q+
11:54:41 <kaz> kaz: (adds "Device" to the right below box, "Servient" to the right above box, and "Browser or Heating" to the left box)
11:54:51 <jhund> q+
11:55:02 <dsr> ack dsr
11:55:25 <kaz> ... should only the Servient B handle the resource/conflict?
11:55:42 <kaz> ... or do we want to have a separate/additional resource manager?
11:55:51 <kaz> zkis: depends on the underlying framework
11:56:17 <jhund> ack zkis
11:56:50 <kaz> nimura: Browser A also needs some kind of resource management capability
11:57:07 <kaz> ... to check security
11:57:11 <jhund> ack jhund
11:57:11 <kaz> q?
11:57:24 <kaz> jhund: clear need for management interface
11:57:59 <kaz> ... when we create exposed thing
11:58:11 <kaz> ... whether it's local or remotely accessibly
11:58:55 <kaz> ... why don't we reuse the mechanism for local servient
11:59:04 <kaz> ... for remote servient
11:59:54 <kaz> zkis: right
12:00:06 <kaz> kaz: what's the difference between "local" and "remote"
12:00:15 <kaz> s/"/"?/
12:00:25 <kaz> ... do we need to think about the difference?
12:00:31 <kaz> jhund: A is local
12:00:35 <kaz> ... B is remote
12:00:38 <kaz> ... in this example
12:01:12 <kaz> ... we need to think about binding, security questions, ...
12:01:13 <davu> q+ can we use resource directory options here?
12:01:39 <kaz> zkis: can create pull requests
12:02:22 <kaz> q?
12:02:26 <kaz> ack davu
12:02:43 <kaz> uday: can we use resource directory?
12:02:54 <kaz> ... interface to access
12:03:16 <kaz> ... A is trying to access B
12:03:31 <kaz> ... there could be some authentication mechanism
12:03:42 <kaz> ... e.g., time limited authentication
12:03:50 <kaz> ... local resource directory
12:04:04 <kaz> zkis: you mean B can store local directory?
12:04:05 <kaz> uday: yes
12:04:12 <kaz> zkis: that's possible
12:04:23 <kaz> ... but Scripting API itself doesn't care about it
12:04:36 <kaz> jhund: how to map this using protocol binding?
12:04:50 <kaz> ... resource directory or TD directory
12:05:11 <kaz> ... what would be needed from the Scripting API viewpoint?
12:05:45 <kaz> ... I'd ask Zoltan and others to provide ideas. I'm also happy to contribute
12:06:11 <kaz> zkis: would update the rational document
12:06:20 <kaz> ... possible global management capability
12:06:32 <kaz> ... and how this would be mapped, etc.
12:06:49 <kaz> jhund: will tidy up the diagram
12:07:46 <kaz> ... we identified two issues today
12:07:51 <davu> davu has joined #wot
12:08:07 <kaz> ... let's switch over to pull requests
12:08:50 <kaz> zkis: let's take your pull request first
12:09:29 <kaz> topic: Issue 18
12:09:44 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/18 Issue 18
12:10:43 <kaz> jhund: some use cases for writable to ThingProperty
12:11:32 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/20 pull request 20
12:11:43 <kaz> jhund: adding readOnly entry for Property initializer
12:12:33 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/WebIDL-1/#dfn-dictionary-member-default-value referring WebIDL
12:12:56 <kaz> zkis: consumedThing should be readonly by default
12:13:07 <kaz> jhund: right
12:13:42 <kaz> s/right/readonly vs writeable/
12:14:16 <kaz> ... exposedThing could be writable
12:14:22 <kaz> s/writeable/writable/
12:15:17 <kaz> ... will make the property "writable" and make the default value "false"
12:15:30 <kaz> zkis: according to ECMA
12:15:44 <kaz> ... "writeable"
12:16:07 <kaz> jhund: ok to use "writeable'?
12:16:13 <kaz> s/'?/"?/
12:16:18 <kaz> (ok)
12:16:25 <kaz> jhund: will merge in this
12:16:53 <kaz> topic: pull request 21
12:17:18 <kaz> zkis: we can postpone this
12:17:35 <kaz> topic: issue 17
12:17:53 <kaz> zkis: 3 issues
12:18:28 <kaz> ... 2, 5, 16
12:18:56 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/17 issue 17
12:19:06 <zkis> https://zolkis.github.io/wot-scripting-api/#terminology-and-conventions
12:20:41 <kaz> jhund: name for referring Things
12:21:44 <kaz> ... possible different ways for discovery
12:22:03 <kaz> ... "local" is type of filter
12:22:21 <kaz> ... we got collection of use cases
12:22:49 <kaz> ... different types of discovery
12:23:11 <kaz> zkis: we can discuss the detail during the next call
12:23:15 <kaz> jhund: yes
12:23:28 <kaz> ... and we might want to invite discovery guys, e.g., Soumya and Louay
12:23:34 <kaz> ... can take an action for that
12:24:11 <kaz> ... comments?
12:24:29 <kaz> zkis: put a note
12:25:25 <kaz> [[
12:25:25 <kaz> Note that canceling a discovery (through unsubscribe) may not be successful in all cases, for instance when discovery is based on open ended broadcast requests. However, once unsubscribe() has been called, implementations must suppress further event handling ( i.e. further discoveries and errors) on the Observable. Also, a discovery error may not mean the end of the discovery process. However, in order to respect Observable semantics (error always terminates
12:25:26 <kaz> processing), implementations must close or suppress further event handling on the Observable.
12:25:28 <kaz> ]]
12:25:31 <kaz> jhund: sounds good
12:26:44 <kaz> ... looks at the example and IDL
12:26:48 <kaz> ... makes sense
12:28:40 <kaz> zkis: canceling discovery through unsubscribe may not be successful, e.g., by timeout
12:29:23 <kaz> topic: issue 14
12:29:33 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/issues/14 issue 14
12:30:06 <kaz> jhund: exposedThing and DynamicThing
12:30:57 <kaz> ... this policy would make sense
12:31:50 <kaz> zkis: ExposedThing is always modifiable
12:32:57 <kaz> (official call ends)
12:33:09 <kaz> some more discussion by Johannes and Zoltan
12:33:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:33:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/10-wot-minutes.html kaz
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