19:54:19 RRSAgent has joined #auto 19:54:19 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-auto-irc 19:54:21 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:54:21 Zakim has joined #auto 19:54:23 Zakim, this will be 19:54:23 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 19:54:24 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 19:54:24 Date: 05 April 2017 20:01:52 scribenick: ted 20:02:19 Present+ PatrickL, Rudi, PatrickB, Ted, Paul 20:03:19 Present+ Gunnar 20:03:50 Location: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-autowebplatform/2017Mar/0005.html 20:03:55 (call coordinates) 20:04:24 Meeting: RSI 20:04:29 Chair: Paul 20:06:06 Paul calls roll and introduces topic 20:06:20 Paul: notifications, media, location being domains we will focus on 20:07:04 … we may settle on another or additional times, a neutral name (other than ViWi), etc 20:07:13 rstreif has joined #auto 20:09:54 Ted: call for participation, then settle on doodle for critical mass, maybe we will have to do 2 different timezone calls 20:10:12 … settle on a working name (RSI is good for now), repo dir (also rsi) 20:10:52 … Kevin might be interested in being an editor but can't speak for him. I'm reaching out to Samsung as I understand are others 20:11:01 Paul: LG is interested but couldn't make today 20:11:42 Gunnar: it sounds like there were some initial differences of opinion and wonder if we should try to separate the issues 20:11:47 Paul: we have done that 20:12:51 … it has gone in circles a bit. we have a submission that is worth exploring further 20:13:04 … this is in production automobiles 20:13:31 … we want to get broad participation on something useful for widespread adoption 20:13:46 Present+ Sanjeev 20:14:04 Paul: some of the hesitation was because we were already on a path 20:14:27 Gunnar: as you say vehicle signal spec is continuing and this is focusing on something else 20:14:40 … I don't think anyone is questioning whether this is viable 20:15:11 Paul: we have additional domains that we have been trying to get going for awhile now 20:15:23 Gunnar: I have not been part of that 20:19:03 Ted gives brief history on media and navigation and how neither are far enough along after considerable time 20:20:17 Gunnar: we want to avoid disparaged approaches for these different "domains" 20:20:44 PatrickL: we have not been able to open up navigation yet 20:21:08 … we started with the easiest to open, we have some internal difficulties to overcome 20:22:09 PatrickB: there were use cases defined earlier, had someone I know working on a thesis come up with a clean room design 20:22:19 … it will differ from what we use at VW but will map well 20:23:08 s/were use cases/were use cases on W3C wiki/ 20:23:18 Gunnar: it would have been beneficial to incorporate Genivi's approach 20:23:25 Paul: ultimately we want to align 20:24:04 Gunnar: all I am proposing is we look at viability of REST+socket as the protocol and then look at the domains 20:24:29 … I'm surprised location is on the proposed list 20:24:48 Paul: the point is to look at the submission and not ignore Genivi 20:26:21 Ted: we have an early draft from Qing An from Alibaba on LBS which has not received enough review. we have nothing submitted from Genivi nor anyone else on LBS at this point 20:26:31 Gunnar: we can work on a submission 20:26:53 Paul: in ViWi we have car, cdn, media library and media (services) 20:27:10 … we can look at the main protocol or a particular domain 20:28:14 … we are purposely not going into signals and letting that progress but looking at the other domains which have not evolved within the W3C BG to date 20:28:27 q+ 20:28:34 Gunnar: all I'm looking for is to find a way to work together to find the right APIs 20:28:43 … drawn from multiple sources 20:29:11 … from Genivi perspective we want to avoid having to redesign things 20:29:51 ack r 20:30:14 Rudi: my suggestion for moving forward is to separate the API from the transport/protocol 20:30:35 … examine APIs and see how we can present a high level API for application developers 20:30:36 q+ 20:31:08 q+ PatrickB 20:31:10 q- later 20:32:40 PatrickB: I think you need the transport and associated principles with respect to statefulness etc defined before trying to work on a higher level API 20:32:56 … I started with the server side on github 20:33:15 … I started with some plugins for the service to be able to develop production software 20:33:44 … entire framework is implemented and a thin higher level API works 20:34:30 … as Gunnar illustrated, changing underlying infrastructure after the fact can be more complicated than taking it into consideration up front 20:34:37 +1 20:34:53 Gunnar: I don't think anyone disagrees with implementing and trying things out 20:35:11 … our theory within Genivi is essentially defining an API once and use across domains 20:35:40 … if you want to make an API perfect 20:35:56 … nobody is disagreeing 20:36:27 … we can try out areas we know we can likely all adopt the result, ones that would less likely be a problem 20:36:56 PatrickL: we don't really care which areas to try first. it would be nice to do something more challenging than simplistic, also something that would be more interesting 20:37:10 … location fits that bill, media is also of high demand 20:37:30 … if there is another domain you have in mind, please suggest it 20:37:45 Gunnar: location may be a good candidate 20:38:04 PatrickL: we feel there will be more changes for implementers than for media 20:38:18 Gunnar: we know how to do it on the vehicle signal side 20:39:26 … maybe REST and sockets are a decent approach and we can look at bringing our (Genivi) LBS with that model 20:39:45 Paul: are you discussing Genivi's IVI Navigation, POI, LBS Speech or? 20:40:05 https://at.projects.genivi.org/wiki/display/NAV/IVI+Navigation+Home 20:40:31 Sanjeev dropped link https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-Specification in WebEx 20:49:31 [review of 2G-VIS, circular discussions, common area] 20:49:55 Ted: the way the BG is structured, people can try new ideas even if they are competing 20:57:10 Paul: next steps? we have a mock server, start working in repo 20:57:20 PatrickB: next I need something interfacing with it 20:57:36 … further out someone can look at VLC api or something so they can do actual playback 20:57:51 Sanjeev: I can offer some developer time on clients 20:58:19 Gunnar: are people familiar with Empress? it is interesting for media APIs 20:58:48 s/Empress/mpris/ 20:58:50 https://specifications.freedesktop.org/mpris-spec/latest/ 20:59:02 Gunnar: it is pretty widely used in Linux 21:01:46 Paul: call schedule? 21:01:57 Ted: I think weekly until AMM F2F 21:02:28 PatrickB: I'll look at mpris and expand the mock server and reach out to Sanjeev 21:03:33 PatrickB drops link to https://github.com/wzr1337/viwiServer 21:04:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-auto-minutes.html ted 21:07:15 Sanjeev: we are working with VISS at OCF 21:07:26 … we are using a templating code based on swagger 21:07:54 … we are building out higher level APIs and spelling them out, they align well 21:08:10 … exploring more things through code and by next week I may more to share 21:08:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-auto-minutes.html ted