16:00:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
16:00:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-irc
16:01:01 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
16:01:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
16:01:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
16:01:07 <trackbot> Date: 23 March 2017
16:01:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:01:17 <addison> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2017Mar/0023.html
16:01:21 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
16:01:26 <addison> ScribeNick: addison
16:01:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:03:21 <addison> present+ Addison
16:03:30 <addison> present+ David
16:03:36 <addison> present+ Richard
16:04:02 <addison> agenda?
16:04:22 <addison> agenda+ Accept WHATWG change to restrictions on bidi
16:04:35 <addison> agenda+ Support for bidi text in strings
16:05:07 <addison> regrets+ Felish
16:05:13 <addison> s/Felish/Felix
16:05:42 <addison> regrets+ Steven
16:05:54 <najib> najib has joined #i18n
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16:06:11 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:06:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda" taken up [from addison]
16:06:45 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:06:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Action Items" taken up [from addison]
16:06:57 <fantasai> zakim, code?
16:06:57 <Zakim> I have been told this is 4186
16:07:19 <addison> action-596?
16:07:19 <trackbot> action-596 -- Addison Phillips to Adjust the agenda to reflect use of uk time for meeting and update links to dateandtime -- due 2017-03-16 -- OPEN
16:07:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/596
16:07:25 <addison> to be completed for this coming week
16:07:48 <addison> action-600?
16:07:48 <trackbot> action-600 -- Addison Phillips to Prepare and submit encoding refresh -- due 2017-03-16 -- OPEN
16:07:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/600
16:09:14 <addison> addison to ping anne for quiet time
16:10:37 <addison> action: richard: move the encoding tracking table to github so addison can update it
16:10:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-604 - Move the encoding tracking table to github so addison can update it [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-03-30].
16:11:21 <addison> https://github.com/aphillips/encoding
16:12:59 <addison> action-601?
16:12:59 <trackbot> action-601 -- Richard Ishida to Check comment status for uievents specs -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN
16:12:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/601
16:13:05 <addison> close action-601
16:13:05 <trackbot> Closed action-601.
16:13:15 <addison> richard: did that, close one, some still need response
16:13:32 <addison> action-602?
16:13:32 <trackbot> action-602 -- Richard Ishida to Make shacl comments in felix's email into issues and/or commenting on sandro's comments and labeling them -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN
16:13:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/602
16:13:35 <addison> richard: done
16:13:37 <addison> close action-602
16:13:37 <trackbot> Closed action-602.
16:13:58 <addison> addison: they went for CR today so check comment status
16:14:21 <addison> action-603?
16:14:21 <trackbot> action-603 -- Richard Ishida to Respond to payment request api comment to make sure that direction only applies to one string at a time or to override for a specific string in a collection -- due 2017-03-23 -- OPEN
16:14:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/603
16:14:24 <addison> close action-603
16:14:25 <trackbot> Closed action-603.
16:14:33 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:14:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Info Share" taken up [from addison]
16:14:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:15:34 <addison> fantasai: looking for info on text decoration issues
16:15:41 <addison> richard: point to list of things you need?
16:16:15 <fantasai> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2016OctDec/0145.html
16:16:34 <addison> fantasai: some need i18n input
16:16:35 <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/issues-cr-2013
16:16:43 <fantasai> says '=i18n=' needs input from i19n
16:16:49 <fantasai> s/19/18/
16:16:50 <addison> fantasai: anything in the above link
16:17:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:17:53 <addison> fantasai: CSS taking writing modes to PR
16:18:02 <addison> ... in month or so
16:18:07 <addison> agenda+ writing modes
16:18:25 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
16:18:25 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Radar" taken up [from addison]
16:18:31 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/projects/1
16:23:11 <addison> action: richard: checks status of svg2 comments
16:23:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-605 - Checks status of svg2 comments [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-03-30].
16:24:08 <addison> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
16:24:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:24:43 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-drafts/projects/1
16:24:51 <addison> richard: updated the article pipeline
16:25:19 <addison> richard: last friday gave a presentation in tokyo
16:25:34 <addison> ... bridging gap between jlreq and implementation
16:25:49 <addison> ... seems to have gone well, some initiatives in place to work on closing gaps
16:26:07 <addison> ... talk not yet available on web in english, but is available in chinese
16:26:13 <r12a> http://www.typeisbeautiful.com/2017/03/11613/
16:26:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:26:35 <addison> richard: attendee translated to chinese and put on his blog at above link
16:26:50 <addison> richard: what I said was
16:26:59 <addison> .... recent member sub is useful to a point
16:27:12 <addison> ... needs maintain
16:27:19 <addison> ... needs more detail and prioritization
16:27:27 <addison> ... so have a roadmap, that'll help css
16:27:36 <addison> ... do it at a lower level than recent sub
16:27:44 <addison> ... which was "vertical works pretty well"
16:27:59 <addison> ... jp community should organize so can pull together and and show pain points
16:28:43 <addison> richard: interest in doing a course
16:28:48 <addison> ... on bidi
16:28:55 <addison> ... very early heads up
16:29:10 <addison> agenda?
16:29:43 <addison> richard: did a bunch of requirements to specdev
16:29:49 <addison> ... vertical text and ruby in more detail
16:29:53 <addison> ... bit about text decoration
16:30:01 <addison> ... largely from ttml
16:31:09 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 12
16:31:09 <Zakim> agendum 12. "writing modes" taken up [from addison]
16:32:02 <addison> richard: summary of chinese experts discuss
16:32:08 <addison> ... and on 3 issues from ttml
16:33:48 <r12a>     For subtitling, no-one has seen vertical-lr, and very little vertical-rl in chinese too.
16:33:49 <r12a>     Straight or wavy lines alongside the text are mostly used for things such as book-title or name highlighting, rather than for emphasis like in Latin-script text underlines. Lines alongside vertical text should appear on the opposite side of items such as emphasis marks, ruby, etc (avoids interference), but most felt that lines (straight or wavy) always appear to the left of the vertical line.
16:33:49 <r12a>     Emphasis marks (eg. dots) by default appear on the left side, but could be right.
16:33:50 <r12a>     Bopomofo ruby always appears on the right side, and pinyin ruby or hanzi ruby normally appear on the right too.
16:33:56 <addison> richard: summary of discussion above
16:34:58 <addison> vertical-lr is mainly exceptional
16:35:36 <addison> richard: mostly used for book titles & name highlighting
16:35:42 <addison> ... jp: right (before) side
16:36:10 <addison> ... in left-to-right lines
16:36:19 <addison> ... one person disagreed or wasn't sure
16:37:46 <addison> ... difference between jp and zh
16:38:06 <addison> ... mongolian on right hand side in vertical and below in horizontal
16:38:38 <addison> fantasai: have info on jp and ko in spec now but need mongolian
16:38:44 <addison> richard: thinking of sending issues
16:38:54 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/55
16:38:58 <addison> ... here's an example from type samples
16:39:13 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/56
16:39:17 <fantasai> ohhhhhh, you have a database of type samples????
16:39:20 <fantasai> I totally have stuff for you
16:39:27 <addison> richard: here's an example so-called underlining
16:40:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:40:27 <fantasai> <3 <3 <3 <3
16:40:29 <r12a> https://w3c.github.io/type-samples/
16:40:38 <addison> richard: please to add samples
16:40:56 <addison> richard: ttml doesn't have a sideways-rl/lr for writing mode
16:41:05 <addison> ... expected text-orientation would do that
16:41:09 <addison> ... explained how css changed
16:41:23 <addison> ... really useful for horizontal scripts, like start and end, line breaks etc
16:41:27 <addison> ... should consider it
16:41:45 <addison> ... instead of rotating the glyphs, rotate the box
16:42:34 <addison> fantasai: better ergonomics for the author: don't have to set two properties
16:42:42 <addison> ... reduced the number of combinations
16:42:49 <addison> ... that weren't important
16:43:13 <addison> richard: in ttml it's not handled properly
16:43:31 <fantasai> correctness wasn't an issue in original Writing Modes; it *was* in XSL:FO, though
16:44:05 <fantasai> TTML must've been copying XSL:FO model
16:44:38 <addison> richard: in tblr used default positions
16:44:46 <addison> ... and in mongolian would be wrong
16:45:09 <addison> ... don't think chinese would be right to position ruby et al
16:45:23 <addison> ...  wasn't able to convince them
16:45:41 <addison> ... mongolians may feel unhappy
16:45:50 <addison> ... and mongolian is prime issue of tblr
16:45:57 <fantasai> s/issue/user/
16:45:58 <addison> ... they are putting in a note
16:46:14 <addison> ... don't want to change default
16:46:20 <addison> ... introduce over/under
16:46:31 <fantasai> s/introduce/could introduce/
16:46:31 <addison> ... maybe in ttml-next
16:46:49 <addison> ... change default for tblr specifically
16:47:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:47:27 <addison> richard: want to know about sideways-*
16:47:41 <addison> ... at risk might not get impls
16:47:49 <addison> ... could be deferred to level 4
16:47:57 <addison> fantasai: chrome planning to work on it
16:48:02 <addison> ... in next year or two??
16:48:16 <addison> ... jp wants writing modes asap
16:48:35 <addison> ... defer sideways into a level 4
16:48:40 <addison> ... but chrome would not defer
16:48:53 <addison> richard: bidi folks want for arabic
16:49:04 <addison> s/bidi folks/arabic layout folks/
16:49:17 <addison> fantasai: as soon as implemented go to rec
16:49:38 <addison> richard: preceded css, just a timing of introduction
16:50:05 <addison> fantasai: will publish forked off level 3 without that section
16:50:16 <addison> ... some process question about can we go direct to CR
16:50:29 <addison> ... but looking to get sideways-* asap to cr
16:50:36 <addison> richard: no plans to change it
16:50:42 <addison> ... way forward for ttml
16:50:54 <addison> fantasai: will publish simultaneous
16:51:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:51:08 <addison> agenda?
16:51:28 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 10
16:51:28 <Zakim> agendum 10. "Accept WHATWG change to restrictions on bidi" taken up [from addison]
16:51:45 <addison> richard: whatwg stripped out checking for unpaired unicode bidi controls
16:51:52 <addison> ... because things not checking correctly
16:51:57 <addison> ... to complicated for them to understand
16:52:06 <addison> ... actioned to ask aharon and mati
16:52:11 <addison> ... "it's complicated" was reply
16:52:20 <addison> ... travis is waiting on us
16:52:26 <addison> ... so suspect say "okay"
16:52:48 <addison> addison: what's the side effect?
16:53:11 <addison> fantasai: only changes conformance checkers really
16:53:42 <addison> ... solved by isolation
16:54:35 <fantasai> s/solved/concerns about user-generated data are solved/
16:55:06 <addison> (no objections)
16:55:30 <addison> action: richard: tell travis to go ahead removing bidi controls text from html5 and whatwg
16:55:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-606 - Tell travis to go ahead removing bidi controls text from html5 and whatwg [on Richard Ishida - due 2017-03-30].
16:55:37 <addison> agenda?
16:55:50 <fantasai> r12a: http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/scans/
16:56:07 <addison> topic: indexeddb review
16:56:24 <addison> richard: look at support for bidi text in strings
16:56:31 <addison> ... comes up in every review
16:56:44 <addison> addison: yep
16:57:35 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/360
16:58:02 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/361
16:58:07 <r12a> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/#indexeddb
16:59:37 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/362
17:00:29 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/363
17:02:03 <addison> make clearer that we are NOT asking for normalization, just the health warning
17:02:27 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/364
17:03:13 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/365
17:04:15 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/366
17:04:48 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/367
17:06:28 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/375
17:07:01 <addison> topic: AOB?
17:08:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
17:08:23 <addison> Present+ Fantasai
17:08:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html addison
17:09:06 <addison> zakim, bye
17:09:06 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Richard, David, Fantasai
17:09:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:13:01 <r12a> regrets+ JcK
17:13:12 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:13:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html r12a
17:13:31 <r12a> s/trackbot, prepare teleconference//
17:22:42 <r12a> s/to complicated for them to understand/to complicated to understand/
17:26:48 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:26:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/23-i18n-minutes.html r12a
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