13:59:57 RRSAgent has joined #apps 13:59:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-apps-irc 14:00:02 Meeting: Payment Apps Task Force 14:00:03 Chair: Ian 14:00:15 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2017Mar/0043.html 14:01:17 present+ 14:01:20 present+ 14:01:24 present+ Andre 14:01:27 present+ Frank 14:01:30 regrets+ Conor 14:02:14 present+ Christian 14:02:39 present+ 14:02:45 topic: Frank's proposal 14:02:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2017Mar/0032.html 14:03:03 scribe: Ian 14:03:18 Frank: I have been arguing in favor of sharing line items with payment app 14:03:32 ...and also realized that there is other customer data that is not shared currently with the payment app 14:04:05 q+ 14:04:12 ...the suggestion is that when the payment app requests permission to handle payments, to also ask (in a fine-grained way) permission to receive the customer info 14:04:13 ack rous 14:04:27 q+ 14:04:28 rouslan: This would work on the registration side but we also need to figure out how to manage this on the PR API side 14:04:39 ...some merchants do not wish to share information. 14:04:43 q+ 14:05:05 q+ 14:05:05 ...so we also need a proposal to modify PR API about sharing of line items with the payment app 14:05:30 ...or expose to the merchant site whether the payment app will request the display items, so that the merchant can choose not to provide 14:05:43 ...in either case, we need to say how this affects the merchant web site 14:06:07 frank: This is the user/payment app relationship. If the merchant is reluctant to share payment line items, they should not pass them 14:06:11 ack aly 14:06:34 alyver: There are situations where shopify would not pass through the data. But for most payment methods we don't want to pass through. 14:06:36 ack ad 14:07:40 adamR: I wanted to respond quickly to rouslan's point about "not showing these apps"; there are some assumptions about permissions built in. I think adding these permissions will complicate things. But if we do, I think that we need to enable the payment app to request permission to collect data and still be registered if the answer is no 14:08:03 q+ 14:08:09 ...we do need to think carefully about the permissions model...I don't think we need something that complicated; withholding info from app should not block registration of the app 14:08:12 ack f 14:08:35 frank: I agree with Adam that the payment app should be registrable even if no permission to collect data. 14:09:00 ...if we go down the route of asking for permission at registration time, I don't think we need fine-grain permissions (e.g., per site) 14:09:38 ...either the user agrees for all sites or not 14:10:51 Ken has joined #apps 14:10:57 Frank: Either user installs or app and shares info or does not install it. 14:11:01 AdamR: I find that problematic 14:11:06 present+ Ken 14:11:44 AdamR: I would not want an ecosystem where all apps ask for info and if the answer is no can still use the app. 14:11:44 q+ 14:11:48 ack frank 14:12:00 Frank: AdamR makes a valid point 14:12:02 q? 14:13:08 IJ: Marcos talked about different ways to get permissions... 14:13:51 AdamR: Top-level point is user is asked for permissions but how can be seen as an implementation detail 14:14:55 IJ: Anybody want to weigh in in support of this? 14:15:00 ...should we talk to the Thursday call? 14:15:09 AdamR: Personally, I think this is adding complication beyond the value 14:15:27 ..I would be curious if there are concrete use cases for payment apps where we can demonstrate that they can't do what they want without this information. 14:15:51 q+ 14:15:52 ...I think +1 to take temp of group on Thursday 14:15:55 ack frank 14:16:35 frank: I wouldn't say it's *impossible* if we don't get it; the payment app can also ask for details; but that makes the user experience worse and there's a risk of mismatching information 14:16:52 AdamR: Please say more about use cases 14:17:16 frank: We do real-time credit assessment at time of purchase. There's a lot of regulation about presenting financing terms. We need the user information as a result. 14:17:30 ..a lot of the information we need is part of the PR API data set 14:17:47 ...what being purchased, customer details, shipping address 14:19:42 IJ: How do you imagine, Rouslan, the merchant preference playing out? 14:20:37 Q1) Can payment app request that user agent include other data in request object => payment app request object? 14:21:10 Q2) Can merchant request that user agent NOT include line item details in the payment app request object? 14:21:29 q+ 14:21:33 ack aly 14:22:26 Making this info hard for the payment app to get puts payment apps built into user agents at an unfair advantage (i.e. Android Pay, Samsung Pay etc) 14:22:58 q+ 14:23:24 Rouslan: one compromise for Q2 was to ask merchant web sites to pass in more vague display items (e.g., tax/shipping/subtotal) and not details about shirts and shoes 14:23:33 q+ 14:23:38 ack alyver 14:24:00 alyver: There was a comment also that beyond 5-10 items the UI is unwieldly 14:24:10 ...I don't know if we are displaying all the line items or just the high-level ones 14:24:19 ack fr 14:24:51 frank: If the merchant is focused on line items...our use case for line items would not be filled by the information currently there. 14:25:08 ...I have no problem removing display items from my proposal. 14:25:19 q+ 14:25:35 ack rous 14:25:51 q+ 14:26:02 rouslan: If display items are not there, then the rest of the information is in user's control to pass. And I think user agent should help user pass data. 14:26:09 ..make sure that you can handle EMPTY data 14:26:12 ack ayl 14:26:15 ack a 14:26:44 q+ 14:26:51 alyver: Zach had also mentioned passing data specific to a payment method 14:27:05 frank: Yes, that's how we could instruct our merchants to use the API 14:27:44 q+ 14:27:55 IJ: Would this be a "karma" payment method, or basic card (in data blob) or both? 14:29:30 q+ 14:29:39 ...would you want this to work across payment methods? 14:29:40 ack fr 14:30:00 frank: We would need other data points as well, so we might do it in our specific payment method. 14:30:09 PROPOSED: 14:30:35 * Thursday call a proposal to include in payment app spec a permission to include user data in payment app request object (but that does not include line items) 14:30:38 +1 14:31:11 frank: +1 14:31:22 (I can present) 14:31:38 topic: Spec updates 14:31:43 https://ianbjacobs.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/ 14:31:56 Payment Handler API 14:32:54 IJ: Can I merge this? 14:33:34 q+ 14:33:47 ack rous 14:34:54 q+ 14:35:03 rouslan: Let's ask Marcos and AdamR to give a thumbs-up 14:35:14 IJ: I suggest AdamR since he is absorbing marcos' code 14:35:25 AdamR: I have not looked over it yet....I'm actually a little surprised. 14:37:32 IJ: I removed a lot since it no longer seemed necessary 14:37:51 AdamR: I will review this today and weigh in on merge; hope to get my edits in this week 14:38:44 Topic: FTF meeting discussion of payment apps 14:38:57 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/FTF-March2017 14:39:19 IJ: What should we share? get from the WG? 14:39:32 AdamR: My recollection is that my 1 hour is an update 14:39:39 ..and second slot is intended for walking through open issues 14:40:04 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues 14:40:19 q? 14:40:23 ack rou 14:40:25 q? 14:42:08 https://github.com/adamroach/webpayments-payment-apps-api/commit/dc913b844e131a5f5c3156a41328da1154f2dee8 14:45:41 AdamR: Regarding 94, not sure I have enough info; we may need to have conversation in Chicago 14:46:26 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/73 14:46:33 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/97 14:50:05 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:50:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-apps-minutes.html Ian 14:50:07 RRSAgent, set logs public 14:50:16 alyver has left #apps 14:50:20 Topic: Next call 14:50:26 28 March 14:50:37 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:50:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-apps-minutes.html Ian 14:50:42 RRSAgent, set logs public 14:51:11 (AdamR will not make a 28 march call) 14:51:13 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:51:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-apps-minutes.html Ian