IRC log of sdwbp on 2017-03-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:59:14 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/01-sdwbp-irc
15:59:16 [ScottSimmons]
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RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:39 [tidoust]
Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Best Practices Sub Group Teleconference
15:59:46 [tidoust]
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20170301
15:59:51 [Linda]
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15:59:54 [tidoust]
Chair: Jeremy
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16:00:44 [tidoust]
Regrets: Phil, Lars
16:01:50 [jtandy]
present+ jtandy
16:01:59 [jtandy]
regrets+ BillRoberts
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present+ ScottSimmons
16:03:05 [tidoust]
Present+ Francois
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16:03:58 [ByronCinNZ]
present+ ByronCinNZ
16:04:07 [AndreaPerego]
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16:04:16 [AndreaPerego]
present+ AndreaPerego
16:04:44 [eparsons]
present+ eparsons
16:05:13 [BartvanLeeuwen]
present+ BartvanLeeuwen
16:05:13 [Linda]
present+ Linda
16:05:17 [ClemensPortele]
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16:05:24 [ClemensPortele]
present+ ClemensPortele
16:05:44 [joshlieberman]
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16:05:51 [Linda]
scribe: Linda
16:05:54 [joshlieberman]
present+ joshlieberman
16:05:58 [MattPerry]
present+ MattPerry
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16:06:16 [Linda]
topic: approving the minutes
16:06:22 [jtandy]
https://www.w3.org/2017/02/15-sdwbp-minutes
16:06:40 [jtandy]
+1
16:06:41 [ClemensPortele]
+1
16:06:41 [Linda]
+1
16:06:42 [AndreaPerego]
+1
16:06:47 [joshlieberman]
+1
16:06:48 [eparsons]
+1
16:06:48 [BartvanLeeuwen]
+1
16:06:53 [ByronCinNZ]
+1
16:07:07 [Linda]
Topic: patent call
16:07:23 [eparsons]
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
16:07:24 [Linda]
eparsons: reads out patent call
16:07:37 [Linda]
[silence]
16:07:48 [Linda]
topic: sprint plan
16:07:51 [jtandy]
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#February_-_mid_March_2017:
16:08:09 [Linda]
jtandy: sprint plan is on the wiki.
16:08:21 [Linda]
... josh, you're on BP1, do you recognize that?
16:08:26 [Linda]
joshlieberman: yes, with Andrea
16:08:32 [Linda]
jtandy: Andrea: you're on 8
16:08:46 [Linda]
... 9 is addressed to joshlieberman
16:08:53 [Linda]
joshlieberman: working on that with Christine Perey
16:09:04 [Linda]
jtandy: content of that may be merged with bp10 or 14
16:09:23 [Linda]
... I spoke with Bill, he knows he's on BP10
16:09:36 [Linda]
.. I'm on 14, 16 will be merged
16:09:53 [Linda]
... section 11 will be based on work we're doing now
16:10:06 [Linda]
... bp11 is Clemens with support from Bart
16:10:09 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: yes
16:10:17 [Linda]
BartvanLeeuwen: aware
16:10:55 [Linda]
jtandy: continues going through sprint plan
16:11:12 [joshlieberman]
BP12 ?
16:11:15 [Linda]
...payam is creating a list of comments we need to go through
16:11:20 [jtandy]
q?
16:11:37 [Linda]
... a lot of work but nothing stopping us from meeting the Delft target
16:12:03 [Linda]
... Clemens will address BP12 later in this call
16:12:27 [jtandy]
topic: Decision: are non-geographic CRS out of scope
16:13:56 [eparsons]
Agreed afraid so... lack expertise
16:13:59 [jtandy]
q?
16:14:03 [joshlieberman]
q+
16:14:21 [ByronCinNZ]
q+
16:14:22 [Linda]
RESOLUTION: meeting minutes approved
16:14:35 [joshlieberman]
A little too much keyboard noise.
16:14:55 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:14:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/01-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:14:55 [Linda]
jtandy: there is no expertise in the WG on non-geographic CRS, therefore add to our scope section that this is out
16:14:56 [jtandy]
q?
16:15:00 [jtandy]
ack joshlieberman
16:15:04 [Linda]
eparsons: agrees, unfortunately
16:15:45 [Linda]
joshlieberman: engineering coordinate systems can be tied into geographic CRS but often just relative to some structure.
16:16:07 [Linda]
... also note the egocentric perspective which comes from AR
16:16:38 [Linda]
... it's worth mentioning that this is a perspective, without offering a BP
16:16:40 [jtandy]
q?
16:16:48 [jtandy]
ack ByronCinNZ
16:17:07 [Linda]
ByronCinNZ: leans towards exclusion of non-geo
16:17:37 [Linda]
... the doc is primarily geospatial so people from other domains will not look for info here
16:18:00 [Linda]
... both for cellular positioning and engineering
16:18:03 [jtandy]
q?
16:18:20 [Linda]
jtandy: coming back to joshlieberman's comment;
16:18:35 [Linda]
... agrees we ought to mention them
16:18:59 [eparsons]
q+
16:18:59 [Linda]
joshlieberman: there would be material for an engineering CRS BP
16:19:50 [Linda]
... making engineering data sharable by tying points to geographic CRS
16:20:11 [Linda]
jtandy: this would be the place for AR info as well?
16:20:13 [Linda]
joshlieberman: yes
16:20:33 [Linda]
jtandy: proposes to ignore the cellular level in terms of spatial
16:21:01 [Linda]
... and include in the next sprint a BP about engineering CRSs and tying them back to geographic CRS
16:21:14 [Linda]
joshlieberman: it could be an addition to BP9, if we make that relative and local positioning
16:21:30 [Linda]
eparsons: and I could add a sentence or two to the intro
16:21:52 [Linda]
... something about global vs local CRS and engineering drawings being a subset of that
16:21:54 [ClausStadler_]
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16:22:20 [Linda]
jtandy: please do
16:22:39 [Linda]
... joshlieberman, I encourage you to develop BP9 along the lines you've just outlined.
16:22:42 [jtandy]
q?
16:22:54 [Linda]
... do you think that's possible within this sprint?
16:22:56 [eparsons]
action eparsons to expand intro to include CAD drawings as another type of CRS
16:22:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-276 - Expand intro to include cad drawings as another type of crs [on Ed Parsons - due 2017-03-08].
16:23:20 [Linda]
joshlieberman: yes
16:23:36 [jtandy]
topic: Review progress on BP8
16:23:36 [Linda]
topic: review progress for BP8
16:23:58 [AndreaPerego]
Current status: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Mar/0008.html
16:24:21 [Linda]
AndreaPerego: I've completed the revision based on the discussion so far.
16:24:28 [AndreaPerego]
Preview: https://andrea-perego.github.io/sdw/bp/index.html#describe-geometry
16:24:30 [Linda]
... I made a fork on my github
16:24:45 [Linda]
... new parts in yellow, I kept also the original text
16:25:19 [Linda]
... revised the why and intended outcome sections, mostly the wording
16:25:37 [Linda]
... the rest is revised more thoroughly with more structure and more actionable guidelines
16:26:20 [Linda]
...there are several notes
16:26:25 [jtandy]
q?
16:26:39 [eparsons]
q-
16:26:48 [Linda]
... trying to describe the approaches in web, LD and geospatial communities
16:27:12 [Linda]
... and added three examples
16:29:06 [jtandy]
q?
16:29:08 [Linda]
(describes the examples in more detail)
16:29:19 [Linda]
AndreaPerego: asks for feedback
16:29:29 [jtandy]
q?
16:29:32 [Linda]
jtandy: thanks AndreaPerego for the work he put in
16:29:43 [jtandy]
q?
16:29:51 [AndreaPerego]
:)
16:29:55 [mib_wh46xb]
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16:31:30 [Linda]
jtandy: did you find gaps in practice about how you ask for particular geometry representation?
16:32:01 [Linda]
AndreaPerego: this is the part causing more trouble
16:32:16 [Linda]
... first you identify the users and applications
16:32:28 [Linda]
... then you provide in differnet ways accordingly
16:33:12 [Linda]
... I referred to what was already discussed in other parts of the BP eg about dimensions, crs, formats (the table in the appendix)
16:33:22 [Linda]
... these tables are quite useful
16:33:50 [joshlieberman]
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16:33:54 [joshlieberman]
q+
16:34:12 [Linda]
... referencing DWBP on conneg
16:34:37 [Linda]
... of course there is not much detail but we could provide more detail in the examples
16:34:54 [Linda]
... please let me know if more is needed
16:35:03 [ClemensPortele]
q+
16:35:36 [Linda]
... in my examples multiple representations of a spatial thing are all embedded in the thing
16:36:17 [Linda]
jtandy: joshlieberman, you mentioned the next version of geosparql might make it easy to identify things like bbox, center point.
16:36:25 [Linda]
... is that worth referring to?
16:37:00 [Linda]
joshlieberman: coming slow. But will be something simple like georss as a core and adding more complexity from geosparql.
16:37:03 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:37:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/01-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:37:21 [Linda]
... but in the core there are currently no geometry role properties.
16:37:45 [AndreaPerego]
s/differnet/different/
16:38:08 [Linda]
... there ARE geometry role properties in the core
16:38:27 [Linda]
... The other issue is the distinction between positions and geometry.
16:38:54 [Linda]
... important not to have just a geometry literal. A geometry has characteristics that need to be available. Type of geometry, dimensionality etc
16:39:38 [Linda]
... And there are different serialization options for the position list.
16:39:50 [Linda]
...geosparql used extended wkt for a reason
16:40:21 [Linda]
...bp should be to treat that as a position literal and provide the geometry characteristics outside the literal as well
16:40:50 [Linda]
...will look through AndreaPerego's work
16:40:55 [jtandy]
q?
16:41:01 [AndreaPerego]
Thanks, Josh
16:41:02 [Linda]
AndreaPerego: thanks a lot joshlieberman
16:41:05 [jtandy]
ack joshlieberman
16:41:08 [jtandy]
ack ClemensPortele
16:42:15 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: when we talk about multiple representations we need to recognize there's also the difference between vocabularies where you represent spatial things and the geometry is a characteristic,
16:42:49 [Linda]
... with one serialization,
16:42:50 [jtandy]
q?
16:42:54 [AndreaPerego]
q+
16:43:04 [Linda]
... or vocabularies that have different serialization options
16:43:14 [joshlieberman_]
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16:43:14 [jtandy]
q?
16:43:17 [jtandy]
ack AndreaPerego
16:43:17 [Linda]
...e.g. GML or GeoJSON vs GeoSPARQL
16:43:27 [Linda]
AndreaPerego: was trying to take this issue into account
16:43:35 [joshlieberman_]
GeoSPARQL: asWKT vs asGML, etc.
16:43:39 [Linda]
... therefore tried to be generic
16:43:57 [jtandy]
q?
16:44:09 [Linda]
... and added this in notes instead of the running text
16:44:38 [Linda]
... to really address it you need to add a lot of detail, too much for a BP
16:44:58 [Linda]
... a review by ClemensPortele might help
16:45:07 [ClemensPortele]
will do ...
16:45:13 [Linda]
jtandy: you are going in the right direction based on the discussion today
16:45:25 [AndreaPerego]
Thanks, Clemens!
16:45:40 [Linda]
jtandy: all: please continue to support AndreaPerego in unpicking this topic
16:45:57 [jtandy]
Topic: Progress on BP 11, 12 and 13
16:46:06 [ClemensPortele]
New text: http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#bp-exposing-via-api
16:46:29 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: I just updated the section at the link, both the intro and BP11.
16:46:38 [Linda]
... haven't touched BP12 and 13 yet
16:47:02 [Linda]
... but my feeling is we don't necessarily need these two.
16:47:38 [Linda]
... The last versions of DWBP had updated info on the API topic. I consolidated our text with this.
16:47:51 [Linda]
... making sure we build on that and focus on spatial aspects
16:47:57 [Linda]
... and SDI related topics
16:48:44 [Linda]
... the old BP11 had some ideas for examples, I deleted several of them eg WPS, WMS. These are not really convenience APIs.
16:49:40 [jtandy]
q?
16:49:41 [Linda]
... Bart should check if his content is covered correctly
16:50:11 [jtandy]
q+
16:50:20 [Linda]
... DWBP has info on subsets of large datasets. We can't add that much to it. Coverages is addressed separately.
16:50:22 [jtandy]
q+ to ask about BP13
16:50:32 [jtandy]
q?
16:50:34 [Linda]
... potentially we could do a subset example in BP11. Same goes for search.
16:50:42 [Linda]
... therefore BP12 and BP13 could go.
16:51:28 [Linda]
jtandy: BP13 is well covered by DWBP.
16:51:46 [joshlieberman]
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16:52:03 [Linda]
... I'd like to propose this to a larger group before deciding. Could you start a discussion thread about dropping BP13?
16:52:13 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: ok
16:52:29 [jtandy]
q?
16:52:34 [jtandy]
ack jtandy
16:52:34 [Zakim]
jtandy, you wanted to ask about BP13
16:52:37 [Linda]
action ClemensPortele to start a discussion thread on the mailing list about dropping BP13.
16:52:37 [trackbot]
Error finding 'ClemensPortele'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
16:53:12 [Linda]
action Clemens Portele to start a discussion thread on the mailing list about dropping BP13.
16:53:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-277 - Portele to start a discussion thread on the mailing list about dropping bp13. [on Clemens Portele - due 2017-03-08].
16:53:53 [Linda]
jtandy: is search special / does it need its own BP?
16:54:02 [jtandy]
q?
16:54:10 [Linda]
joshlieberman: not sure, it could be merged into something about APIs.
16:54:35 [Linda]
... e.g. what search options would we want to recommend.
16:54:59 [ClemensPortele]
Current text: "The API should support queries for spatial things based on user needs. For spatial data, a typical need is to support searching data located in a specific area, for example, an area shown as a map in an application. Where users often look for a particular spatial thing without knowning its identifier, a fault-tolerant free-text search on the name, label or other property may be useful."
16:55:10 [Linda]
jtandy: part of a convenience api is providing search for cases where users don't know the identifiers of spatial things.
16:55:18 [Linda]
...would that be enough?
16:55:40 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: is the current text (pasted above) enough?
16:56:12 [Linda]
joshlieberman: the other important thing is some sort of neighborhood search.
16:56:44 [Linda]
jtandy: makes sense
16:56:54 [Linda]
ClemensPortele: will add that
16:57:57 [Linda]
joshlieberman: near and within covers about 80% of spatial queries
16:58:27 [jtandy]
q?
16:59:04 [Linda]
jtandy: so we've agreed here that given the minor amendment of BP11, BP12 can go.
16:59:46 [joshlieberman]
prese
16:59:52 [Linda]
... wrapping up, I will continue pushing discussions on sameplaceas and BP2.
17:00:29 [Linda]
...Ed, when we resolve to remove BPs, should we have minuted resolutions in a plenary call?
17:00:36 [Linda]
eparsons: yes
17:01:02 [Linda]
jtandy: then it would be useful to have those resolutions in the next plenary call.
17:01:07 [Linda]
eparsons: drop me an email to remind
17:01:35 [Linda]
jtandy: thanks everyone including demon Linda
17:01:35 [BartvanLeeuwen]
thx
17:01:38 [AndreaPerego]
Thanks, and bye!
17:01:38 [ClemensPortele]
thanks and bye!
17:01:39 [BartvanLeeuwen]
bye
17:01:40 [eparsons]
Thanks Linda + jtandy
17:01:41 [jtandy]
bye!
17:01:42 [Linda]
jtandy: meeting closed
17:01:44 [joshlieberman]
bye
17:01:44 [Linda]
bye!
17:01:46 [tidoust]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:01:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/01-sdwbp-minutes.html tidoust
17:01:48 [ClemensPortele]
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