17:03:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
17:03:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/27-eo-irc
17:03:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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17:03:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3694
17:03:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
17:03:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
17:03:49 <trackbot> Date: 27 February 2017
17:06:39 <yatil> agenda+ WAI site redesign IA Working Session
17:06:52 <yatil> agenda+  Visual Design Review
17:07:01 <yatil> agenda+ Finish up anything left from IA Working Session
17:07:15 <yatil> agenda+ WAI site redesign Planning Working Session
17:07:23 <shawn> present+ Shadi, Brent, Eric, Charlotte, James, Denis, KrisAnne, Sharron, Laura, Adine, Howard, Shawn, Andrew, SarahPulis
17:07:30 <yatil> Topic: Introductions around the table
17:08:03 <yatil> [Everyone introduces themselves: Shadi, Brent, Eric, Charlotte, James, Denis, KrisAnne, Sharron, Laura, Adine, Howard, Shawn, Andrew, SarahPulis]
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17:13:13 <Howard> present+ Howard
17:13:14 <dboudreau> present+ dboudreau
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17:13:26 <Laura> present+ Laura
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17:19:05 <Adina> Present+ Adina
17:19:19 <James> James has joined #eo
17:24:49 <Sarah> Sarah has joined #eo
17:25:25 <shadi> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/
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17:40:32 <shawn> present+ Robert
17:46:09 <shawn> top tasks -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2017JanMar/0041.html
18:01:08 <Andrew> present+ Andrew
18:09:51 <dboudreau> q+
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18:10:54 <rjolly> Present+ Robert
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18:15:55 <yatil> ack dboudreau
18:15:57 <yatil> q+
18:16:25 <yatil> q-
18:20:15 <shawn> present+ Kevin
18:26:45 <shawn> Shadi: Mission is to make the web audience. Who is primary audience?
18:27:12 <shawn> AA: & Sarah: higher level, policy
18:28:40 <shawn> s/Mission is to make the web audience./Mission is to make the web accessible.
18:30:18 <shawn> Sarah:  ... current personas are tech heavy. orgs now head of UX often leading accessibility. ...
18:41:42 <Howard> q+
18:42:48 <shawn> q+ shadi
18:42:51 <shawn> q+ denis
18:43:13 <shawn> ack h
18:43:57 <shawn> [  discussion of Andy persona & role of WAI...]
18:44:02 <shawn> ack s
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18:44:43 <shawn> q?
18:44:51 <shawn> ack  d
18:45:22 <shawn> Denis: planting the seeds so other people can run with it.  (we dont have resourcecs to so ourselves)
18:46:27 <shawn> s/have resourcecs to so ourselves)/have resources to do ourselves)
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18:47:55 <shawn> [  discussion of "crowdsourcing" and components list and vetting ]
18:51:51 <Howard> q+
18:53:19 <yatil> Personas: https://w3c.github.io/wai-website-personas/
18:53:37 <Brent> ack Howard
18:54:49 <yatil> q+ dboudreau , yatil
18:55:47 <shawn> q+ to say huge and maybe THE primary audience?
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18:56:12 <yatil> q- later
18:56:16 <James_> James_ has joined #eo
18:56:26 <shawn> ack d
18:56:34 <shawn> ack  me
18:56:34 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say huge and maybe THE primary audience?
18:56:49 <Brent> Q+ Shadi
18:57:20 <yatil> q- later
18:57:42 <shawn> q+ laura
18:57:51 <James_> Ack yatil
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18:58:45 <James_> Ack s
18:59:13 <shawn> SLH:  maybe THE key, top,  major, one primary audience is the person who gets assigned a role of "accessibility specialist" but has little or no knowledge (Brent first mentioned this role and Sharron and others shaking head)
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19:00:25 <Andrew> shadi: disability advocates, maybe in a disability organisation - trying to make the case for accessibility. Doesn't understand the technical aspects, but wants enough knowledge to argue for increasing acessibility
19:00:52 <Brent> ack Laura
19:01:58 <Andrew> Laura: third party is hired to do implement accessibility, but they have no knowledge - run a simple test to prove they've done it well
19:02:24 <shawn> q?
19:03:37 <Andrew> Sarah: QA team and accessibility testers - how to go about testing
19:09:31 <shawn> SLH: everyone wants the quick hit info. maybe all our resources have that quick info bite at the top, clear with lots of white space, and then the details are lower down on that page
19:10:03 <shawn> [  ee nods waves excitedly and then says "I mildly agree" ;-]
19:13:35 <shawn> [  rejigging personas ]
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19:15:29 <shawn> James: channeling Caleb: I expect WAI info to be 100% trustworthy. If it's on WAI swebsite, it better be right!
19:15:31 <shawn> q+
19:15:54 <Andrew> s/swebsite/website
19:17:39 <shawn> q+ to also ask if newbie A.S.
19:18:50 <shawn> ack  s
19:18:50 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to also ask if newbie A.S.
19:19:59 <Sharron> scribe: Sharron
19:20:37 <Sharron> New personas: Andy + Sammy's credibility issues
19:20:52 <Sharron> Anna-Lenna, less technical more PM and advocacy
19:21:08 <Sharron> Miles: Less print, mre UX and content management
19:21:39 <Sharron> Patricia: legislative aide, researcher, decision maker in government
19:22:57 <Sharron> ...senior Congressional/Parliment staffer
19:23:39 <Sharron> Quentin: functional QA person. already doing QA and must add accessibility to that.
19:24:45 <Sharron> ...needs to feel confident enough to try
19:27:00 <Sharron> James: will go through the Top Tasks, validate or remove, and if there are any not here, writie it down to add at the end of the process
19:31:34 <Sharron> ...placing stickies related to each Top Task inot affinity map on the wall
19:34:49 <shawn> q+ to say mobile page says its all mobile :-)
19:35:42 <shawn> q+ eric
19:37:50 <shawn> ack s
19:37:50 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say mobile page says its all mobile :-)
19:37:57 <shawn> ack e
19:39:43 <Andrew> Eric: yes to Shawn's need for an mobile landing page that says we cover it everywhere, but does point to some specific like testing
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20:50:36 <Howard> q+
20:53:43 <rjolly> ack Howard
20:56:01 <shawn> q?
20:57:04 <shawn> KrisAnne:  re about cost -- things we can say , e.g.,  if put off to end,  more. integrate throughout
21:00:51 <Andrew> https://www.w3.org/blog/2010/04/new-release-of-the-w3c-cheat-s/
21:01:44 <Andrew> https://gethtml.at/
21:07:57 <shawn> 645 148 810 #
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21:24:59 <yatil> https://yatil.github.io/wai-colors-font-test/
21:28:01 <yatil> -1 to use different fonts
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21:32:41 <Brent> q+
21:33:17 <Howard> q+
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21:34:29 <Adina> +q Adina
21:35:31 <Brent> ack me
21:35:50 <Howard> ack h
21:35:50 <shawn> q- howard
21:40:05 <dboudreau> I’d suggest Oswald bold for headings and Montserrat for content
21:40:44 <dboudreau> (both sans serif)
21:41:07 <dboudreau> https://designschool.canva.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/cache/2015/12/162/162-1324x1003.jpg
21:41:15 <Sharron> q+
21:41:19 <shawn> q+ to say fonts & coding. asking for input
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21:42:03 <yatil> https://yatil.github.io/wai-colors-font-test/
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21:43:11 <shawn> q?
21:43:16 <Brent> ack adina
21:43:39 <yatil> q+ Adina
21:46:14 <shawn> q+ to say find the right balance for cool and sexy - it's important
21:46:58 <Brent> ack Sharron
21:47:54 <shawn> ack me
21:47:54 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say fonts & coding. asking for input and to say find the right balance for cool and sexy - it's important
21:48:30 <yatil> q+ to react to shawn
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21:49:16 <dboudreau> https://blog.snappa.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/oswald-montserrat-light.png
21:49:34 <dboudreau> q+
21:50:09 <Brent> ack adina
21:54:08 <shawn> q+ to repeat that others have done this research -- let's ask others
21:54:29 <dboudreau> ack me
21:54:39 <shawn> q+ to say live version *much* clearer than images
21:55:09 <shawn> character test is also important
21:55:12 <Brent> ack Y
21:55:12 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to react to shawn
21:55:13 <shawn> ack y
21:55:48 <shawn> q+ to say liam
21:55:52 <Howard> q+
21:55:54 <shawn> ack me
21:55:54 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to repeat that others have done this research -- let's ask others and to say live version *much* clearer than images and to say liam
21:55:59 <yatil> q?
21:57:09 <rjolly> q+ to talk about dyslexic.com typeface recommendations
21:57:43 <Laura> q+
21:57:52 <Brent> ack howard
21:59:19 <Laura> q-
22:00:19 <Brent> ack rjolly
22:00:19 <Zakim> rjolly, you wanted to talk about dyslexic.com typeface recommendations
22:02:44 <Andrew> to aid font discussion https://theestablishment.co/hating-comic-sans-is-ableist-bc4a4de87093#.vla1ig9dk
22:03:15 <shawn> +1 to Robert that some sites with basic fonts look good
22:05:10 <Andrew> and on dyslexic fonts in general - http://www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/dyslexia-font.html
22:06:08 <Andrew> [[Contrary to media hype, and even a Scientific American article about Dyslexie, no independent research has found that any font significantly improves reading speed or comprehension for dyslexics]]
22:08:33 <Andrew> [[ 2013 Spanish study found that Helvetica, Courier, Arial and Verdana were the best fonts for dyslexics, the same fonts of choice for many efficient readers (study - http://www.dyslexia-reading-well.com/support-files/italian_study_on_fonts_2013.pdf)]]
22:10:31 <shawn> Kevin: ... do HTML mockup then we can look at these and different fonts in real example
22:10:38 <shawn> LOTS of agreements
22:12:38 <yatil> BBC uses: font-family: Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif;
22:13:10 <shawn> W3C TR redesign uses @@
22:13:49 <Sharron> q+
22:13:53 <yatil> s/@@/sans-serif – defers to the system font
22:14:18 <yatil> ack s
22:14:23 <Adina> q+ Adina
22:15:19 <shawn> ack a
22:18:30 <Andrew> final contribution on dyslexia for today - https://typography.guru/journal/letters-symbols-misrecognition/
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22:34:32 <Andrew> s/final contribution/my final contribution
22:42:57 <shawn> easy checks https://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary
22:53:30 <Andrew> current mobile material - https://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/Overview
23:18:54 <Howard> q+
23:20:52 <Sharron> q+
23:24:04 <Howard> ack h
23:39:18 <shawn> "Easy Checks - A First Review of Web Accessibility"  -- retitle suggested by Charlotte's IA draft "Introduction to Evaluating Web Accessibility (Start Here!)"
23:39:36 <dboudreau> +1 to Charlotte’s proposal
23:40:12 <shawn> "Easy Checks - A First Review of Web Accessibility"  -- retitle suggested by Charlotte's IA draft "Introduction to Evaluating Web Accessibility (Start Here!)"
23:40:26 <dboudreau> (I know it’s not a proposal, but it translates our intent much better)
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