14:49:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:49:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/23-lvtf-irc
14:49:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:49:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:49:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:49:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:49:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:49:53 <trackbot> Date: 23 February 2017
14:49:59 <allanj> chair: Jim
14:50:31 <allanj> regrets+ Laura
14:50:54 <allanj> Agenda+ WCAG 2.1 FPWD https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/FPWD_review/guidelines/index.html
14:51:10 <allanj> Agenda+ User Agent Switcher - select mobile browser for single column page (i.e. github)
14:53:21 <allanj> Agenda+ "essential" in SCs (1.4.10, 1.4.12, 1.4.14)
15:41:52 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
15:41:52 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:41:54 <Zakim> 1. WCAG 2.1 FPWD https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/FPWD_review/guidelines/index.html [from allanj]
15:41:54 <Zakim> 2. User Agent Switcher - select mobile browser for single column page (i.e. github) [from allanj]
15:41:54 <Zakim> 3. "essential" in SCs (1.4.10, 1.4.12, 1.4.14) [from allanj]
15:42:12 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
15:42:12 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
15:42:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, allanj, trackbot
15:42:30 <allanj> present+
15:42:35 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
15:42:35 <Zakim> Present: allanj
15:42:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, allanj, trackbot
16:01:16 <Glenda> Glenda has joined #lvtf
16:01:21 <shawn> present+ Shawn
16:01:40 <shawn> present+ Erich
16:01:58 <Marla> Marla has joined #lvtf
16:01:58 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
16:01:59 <Glenda> present+ Glenda
16:02:17 <erich> present+ erich
16:02:29 <shawn> present+ Marla
16:02:37 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:37 <Zakim> Present: allanj, Shawn, Erich, Glenda, Marla
16:02:56 <erich> Scribe: Erich
16:03:18 <erich> sure thing!! :)
16:03:47 <allanj> Agenda+ CSUN
16:05:22 <allanj> Zakim, Open item 4
16:05:22 <Zakim> agendum 4. "CSUN" taken up [from allanj]
16:05:43 <shawn> Shawn will be at CSUN
16:06:00 <erich> CSUN first timer!
16:06:04 <shawn> Erich, Glenda, Jim, Wayne all will be at CSUN
16:06:06 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
16:06:49 <erich> LVTF panel discussion happening on Thursday of CSUN, can talk about our 7 SC's
16:07:07 <shawn> which session is that?
16:07:33 <erich> GS: will be Jim, Wayne and Glenda as moderator
16:08:26 <erich> GS: Topics could include proposed SC, Wayne horizontal scroll information
16:09:01 <erich> GS: Would love to have Shawn up front if interested, valuable perspective
16:12:35 <erich> Panel is Thurs 1:20pm at CSUN - LVTF 1:20pm (Seaport F-Deque, 2nd FL)
16:14:45 <erich> GS: Does anyone know if Alastair expects to be at CSUN?
16:15:32 <erich> GS: Concept of a CSS pixel would be interesting to discuss, but perhaps too much in a panel discussion?
16:15:41 <erich> JA: Yeah, perhaps if it comes up
16:16:40 <erich> JA: CSS pixel can get in to the weeds pretty fast
16:18:55 <erich> WD: It's important that the physical pixels measure what we can see, and we don't need to worry about those conversions
16:20:25 <erich> WD: Also, every person with low vision has tunnel vision, whether medically or by magnifying on the screen, which is where linearization becomes important. Already getting pushback on it.
16:28:06 <allanj> Zakim, close item 4
16:28:06 <Zakim> agendum 4, CSUN, closed
16:28:07 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:28:07 <Zakim> 1. WCAG 2.1 FPWD https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/FPWD_review/guidelines/index.html [from allanj]
16:28:18 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
16:28:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "User Agent Switcher - select mobile browser for single column page (i.e. github)" taken up [from allanj]
16:28:55 <allanj> FF /Chrome - http://mybrowseraddon.com/useragent-switcher.html
16:28:57 <allanj> Chrome - http://useragentswitcher.org
16:29:20 <erich> JA: This is important for when it comes to implementations, pasted two links
16:30:21 <erich> JA: Gave a linearized, reflowed view on single screen, less need to scroll around looking for things
16:30:49 <erich> JA: With agent switchers, you can specify things like 'give me the iphone 3 view'
16:31:23 <erich> WD: When I read Gmail now, I can make it a cell phone, but delete it with a style sheet, like having a toggle
16:31:41 <erich> WD: Much easier reading my email now
16:32:03 <erich> JA: Wayne mentioned something like text drifter
16:32:19 <erich> WD: Drifting text is a nice feature, helps measure reading speed
16:33:23 <erich> GS: So the text is moving?
16:33:50 <erich> JA: Yes, it gives you a single line and the text moves across, and always moves at a constant rate
16:35:44 <erich> Erich suggests checking out www.spotlighttext.com eBook reader, if interested
16:37:19 <erich> zakim, take up next agenda item
16:37:19 <Zakim> agendum 1. "WCAG 2.1 FPWD https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/FPWD_review/guidelines/index.html" taken up [from allanj]
16:38:18 <allanj> zakim, close item 2
16:38:18 <Zakim> agendum 2, User Agent Switcher - select mobile browser for single column page (i.e. github), closed
16:38:20 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:38:20 <Zakim> 1. WCAG 2.1 FPWD https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/FPWD_review/guidelines/index.html [from allanj]
16:38:36 <shawn> [ Shawn has EOWG Mon & Tue ]
16:39:08 <erich> Erich arriving 11am Monday, departing 10pm Friday (CSUN first-timer!)
16:41:49 <shawn> present+ StephenR
16:41:51 <erich> JA: There was a scramble to get FPWD out before CSUN, should be coming by tomorrow
16:42:01 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
16:42:14 <steverep> present+steverep
16:42:20 <erich> JA: LVTF got all of our 7 proposed SC in
16:42:25 <allanj> If content can printed, the following are true:
16:42:27 <allanj> Resized:
16:42:28 <allanj>     Content can be resized up to 200% without loss of content or functionality;
16:42:30 <allanj> Changes Reflected:
16:42:31 <allanj>     User changes to letter spacing, line spacing, font family, and color are reflected in the printed content.
16:43:37 <steverep> My apologies for being so late (significant computer issues)
16:43:39 <allanj> above is 1.4.13
16:43:58 <allanj> SC 1.4.16 Popup Interference
16:44:20 <allanj> For informational content that appears on hover or focus, one of the following is true:
16:44:21 <allanj> Turn Off
16:44:23 <allanj>     The informational content can be turned off
16:44:24 <allanj> Not obscure
16:44:26 <allanj>     The informational content does not obscure the triggering content
16:44:27 <allanj> Note
16:44:29 <allanj> This does not apply to user agent rendering of the title attribute.
16:46:44 <allanj> https://alastairc.ac/2017/02/four-levels-of-accessibility-customisation/
16:48:47 <erich> JA: Whenever any of us is browsing day-to-day, it behooves us to capture screenshot pictures of particularly heinous low-vision infractions
16:49:20 <erich> MR: I collect many examples every day, how do we share?
16:49:33 <erich> JA: Just send it forward, and we can figure out where it fits
16:49:41 <erich> MR: Does it need to be specific to 2.1?
16:49:58 <erich> JA: Likely best at this point if it is
16:50:05 <shawn> q+
16:50:24 <shawn> q+ to say consider "public" and anon
16:50:37 <shawn> q+ to say add to wiki?
16:51:47 <shawn> ack s
16:51:47 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say consider "public" and anon and to say add to wiki?
16:51:57 <erich> SH: I think it would be best to keep in mind whatever you share might be publicly consumed, so may be fine to anonymize or block out certain words. Can share to the wiki
16:53:12 <erich> WD: There are enthusiastic clients who may be willing to share early mistakes, to demonstrate how they were fixed
16:53:38 <erich> JA: Noticing Steve has joined, wondering if you will be at CSUN
16:54:00 <erich> SR: Unfortunately not
16:58:21 <steverep> q+
16:58:28 <Glenda> q+
16:58:45 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
16:58:45 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, allanj
16:59:15 <allanj> ack s
16:59:38 <allanj> Topic: "Essential" in SC
17:01:08 <Glenda> Normative definition of Essential from WCAG 2.0 = essential
17:01:09 <Glenda> if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
17:02:25 <erich> SR: The term "essential" gets murky, have a number of examples - easier for me to describe verbally
17:02:36 <allanj> ack g
17:03:07 <erich> GS: Have been feeling comfortable with "Essential" and love the definition
17:03:48 <steverep> q+ to say the second clause is what bothers me
17:04:28 <erich> ack s
17:04:28 <Zakim> steverep, you wanted to say the second clause is what bothers me
17:05:28 <allanj> lvtf sc with "essential:
17:05:45 <allanj> 1.4.10 A mechanism is available to view content as a single column, except for parts of the content where the spatial layout is essential to the function and understanding of the content.
17:05:46 <allanj> 1.4.12 Graphics Contrast The visual presentation of graphical objects that are essential for understanding the content or functionality have a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1 against the adjacent color(s), except for the following:
17:05:48 <allanj> 1.4.14 User Interface Component Contrast (Minimum)...The visual presentation of essential graphical objects for user interface component(s)
17:06:41 <allanj> glenda: if you take the graphic or part of the graphic off of the page and it no longer makes sense then that part of the graphic is "essential"
17:07:46 <Wayne> essential
17:07:48 <Wayne>     if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
17:09:12 <allanj> essential
17:09:14 <allanj>     Proposed
17:09:15 <allanj>     if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform
17:09:17 <allanj>     Examples of a particular presentation of content being essential to the information being conveyed:
17:09:18 <allanj>         banking site where a check deposit has to be in a certain orientation
17:09:20 <allanj>         piano app in landscape mode
17:12:34 <allanj> Next Meeting March 9
17:12:46 <erich> JA: Next LVTF call will be March 9th, after CSUN
17:14:00 <Wayne> mechanism-     process or technique for achieving a result
17:14:47 <Glenda> I will not be available at the March 9th time.  Will be onsite at a client.
17:15:23 <allanj> WCAG2.1 comments will go to public-comments-wcag20@w3.org
17:16:06 <allanj> to receive all of the comments, subscribe to  public-comments-wcag20-request@w3.org
17:18:39 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #lvtf
17:20:32 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/23-lvtf-minutes.html erich
17:24:22 <alastairc> sure, shall I join the webex?
17:50:34 <allanj> script - ignore  print style
18:10:31 <allanj> firefox shift-f1
20:07:27 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #lvtf