13:47:53 RRSAgent has joined #wpay-reg 13:47:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-wpay-reg-irc 13:59:30 Meeting: Regulatory Landscape 13:59:34 Chair: Jean-Yves Rossie 13:59:36 Chair: Jean-Yves Rossi 13:59:38 Scribe: Ian 13:59:42 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2017Feb/0031.html 14:00:43 jyrossi has joined #wpay-reg 14:01:53 present+ 14:01:55 present+ Kris 14:01:57 present+ dezell 14:02:27 present+ Mark 14:02:31 present+ Jean-Yves 14:02:31 present+ Vincent 14:04:23 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/RegulatoryLandscape/FlowAnalysis 14:04:40 Topic: Introduction: Mark Tiggas 14:04:49 jyrossi: Welcome! 14:04:54 Mark: Thanks! 14:05:14 Topic: Staus update 14:05:35 jyrossi: I have been busy and not as productive as I would have liked to be. We've also made some changes in the Canton team involved in w3c 14:06:11 ...I will be able to devote more time to this effort between now and the FTF meeting 14:06:39 dezell has joined #wpay-reg 14:07:01 kriske has joined #wpay-reg 14:07:03 Topic: Reminder of methodology 14:07:05 mark_tiggas has joined #wpay-reg 14:07:14 present+ kriske 14:07:23 jyrossi: At previous meeting we discussed how to tackle this question of ensuring alignment with regulations 14:07:27 present+ dezell 14:07:30 vkuntz has joined #wpay-reg 14:07:39 present+ 14:07:46 ...we are planning both a top-down (gathering relevant regs) and bottom-up (characterizing the spec) approach 14:08:26 ...the bottom up approach will involve people reviewing materials (the spec or higher level summary) and raising issues that might hinder adoption. 14:08:56 ..the top down approach is to review regulation and thinking from a regulatory point of view (for a few main jurisdictions) 14:10:14 ..the goal of this approach is to create an inventory of regulations that people need to be aware of 14:11:03 ...Ian brought materials today relevant to the bottom-up approach 14:11:15 ...we will come back to the inventory approach and how to enlarge the network of experts 14:11:52 ...and how to list issues that we will want to check (in the specs) and help us determine if there may be challenges wrt those issues 14:12:10 +1 on the approach 14:12:23 (No comments on the approach) 14:12:42 q+ 14:13:26 ack mark 14:13:50 mark: My only concern about the approach is that rendering an opinion about regulations may be perilous 14:13:58 ...we don't want people to rely on our opinions 14:14:11 ...we are not a legal authority and don't want to put ourselves in that position. 14:14:21 jyrossi: +1. 14:14:46 jyrossi: My suggestion today is that we start with the bottom up approach and keep 15 mins at the end to talk about top-down 14:14:59 ..and look at "how to progress" on that parallel effort 14:15:17 topic: Review of FlowAnalysis 14:15:39 jyrossi: We discussed last time how to help reviewers understand the spec 14:15:45 ..Ian wrote up a draft 14:15:54 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/RegulatoryLandscape/FlowAnalysis 14:18:03 Ian : I had a call with William. Through this conversation, it appeared necessary to show how the flow happen 14:19:16 It is a non graphic description, so far but it could to understand what is designed and what happens before, during and after payment. 14:19:53 Ian: this drives to show how the ecosystem interact with such steps 14:20:05 Ian: this drives to show how the ecosystem interacts with such steps 14:21:44 We could consider for instance how PCI-DSS could impact our process, on key steps 14:22:18 it is not exhaustive but could be a useful start and way to progress 14:22:22 q+ to ask about high-level themes 14:22:39 q+ 14:22:45 ack David 14:23:25 ack jyrossi 14:23:28 ack de 14:23:28 dezell, you wanted to ask about high-level themes 14:23:38 dezell: I think there is overlap with JY's themes 14:24:03 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_regulatory_topics_about_payment_services 14:24:06 jyrossi: In the top-down approach we have established as a possible deliverable a similar list of regulatory topics 14:24:40 ...I changed the page recently, trying to organize the questions and sub-levels to get closer to the steps of the flow in Ian's doc 14:25:08 (+1 to convergence) 14:25:34 jyrossi: it would be possible to correlate the way we order the relevant regulatory questions of main jurisdictions 14:26:32 ...I'd like to review the list with Ian (e.g., by phone) 14:26:58 q 14:26:59 q? 14:28:04 q+ 14:28:37 q+ 14:28:47 q+ 14:29:07 q- 14:29:12 q+ 14:29:13 IJ: +1 for your list...I think some things are quickly integratabtle as "outside the flow" (e.g., related to enrollment) 14:29:40 ..but the labels are also helpful to remembering regulatory topics that are relevant within the scope of the spec 14:29:52 Need to be careful not to put something out of scope too quickly 14:30:02 (Agreed, vincent) 14:30:32 jyrossi: The limit of the transaction is relevant to the flow 14:30:45 ...if you miss checking AML requirements, you miss some constraints that are relevant to the transaction 14:31:22 ...this is just to illustrate the value of looking at regulatory themes as well as looking (bottom up) at the spec 14:31:23 q+ 14:31:25 ack jy 14:31:32 ack vkuntz 14:31:47 vkuntz: We need to be careful not to put some regulations out of scope too quickly 14:33:54 +1 for a distinction between notes for spec authors and notes for Spec users 14:34:07 q+ 14:34:25 ack dez 14:34:31 dezell: +1 to the phrase "theme" 14:35:29 ...let's create a list that can be shared by both the top-down and bottom-up approach 14:38:18 q? 14:39:05 ACTION: Ian to review Jean-Yves' list and propagate the themes through his flow analysis 14:39:53 q+ 14:40:09 ack me 14:40:12 ack jy 14:40:31 jyrossi: Ian, would it be possible to add to the flow analysis page some graphics? 14:40:39 (Yes, but I am bad at that) 14:40:47 ...also, you linked to the web payment overview document 14:41:17 ..is there an update to that? 14:42:57 https://www.w3.org/2017/Talks/ij_payments_201701/w3c.pdf 14:43:42 (cf diagram on slide 28) 14:43:46 +1 to graphics; I am bad at them 14:44:02 jyrossi: I would like to encourage Ian to work on a diagram 14:44:18 jyrossi: Here are some thoughts on the flow analysis: 14:44:40 1) It's very positive how you ordered the flows...helps suggest very precise questions 14:44:59 ...it's easy to assign precise regulatory references in front of some steps in the process 14:45:25 ...regarding credentials, for example, there are articles 66/67 of PSD2 that come to mind 14:45:35 ...so I think that there is some heuristic added value of the flows you introduced 14:45:54 2) The point where we should be cautious is that the description of what we are doing 14:46:19 ..has been done starting from a statement about the fact that PSPs are out of scope because they are conflated with the Payee 14:46:39 ...so this simplification of "payee" raises some questions for me 14:46:55 "Note that the payee may delegate part of the checkout experience to its service providers. Indeed, the payee may never see payment response information that is sent directly to its service providers. In the description below, we simplify by referring only to the payee. " 14:47:19 jyrossi: This might strike regulators as strange. Regulators want to understand the kind of service provider 14:49:21 q? 14:49:32 IJ: Nothing changes from the status quo in this regard by virtue of the API 14:49:52 jyrossi: Regulation has changed, even if it's the status quo 14:50:31 IJ: It doesn't affect us specially; we should not focus on it because there is nothing different via the API 14:50:34 jyrossi: I'm not convinced yet 14:50:38 zakim, close the queue 14:50:38 ok, Ian, the speaker queue is closed 14:50:41 q? 14:50:54 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:50:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-wpay-reg-minutes.html Ian 14:51:05 topic: Top-down approach 14:51:20 jyrossi: Regarding building an inventory of regulations 14:51:32 ...as you know, we started to list main jurisdictions 14:52:48 https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_regulatory_topics_about_payment_services 14:54:44 jyrossi: I invite others to add to this list 14:54:46 [/me has to go 14:54:48 q? 14:54:53 topic: Next meeting 14:55:32 IJ: Proposed 2 March 14:55:36 jyrossi: +1 14:55:45 +1 14:55:48 kris: Regrets for that date 14:56:24 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:56:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-wpay-reg-minutes.html Ian 14:56:29 RRSAgent, set logs public 14:57:09 exit 17:24:41 Zakim has left #wpay-reg