IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2017-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:01:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
16:01:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-irc
16:01:33 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:01:33 [Zakim]
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16:01:34 [Kathy]
present+ Kathy
16:01:35 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
16:01:35 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
16:01:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:36 [trackbot]
Date: 16 February 2017
16:01:48 [Kim]
chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin
16:04:04 [chriscm]
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16:04:05 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AMATF
16:04:25 [Kim]
TOPIC: proposal about SCs and editors draft
16:05:52 [Kim]
Kathy: going through proposals – picking 10 that are at highest level of maturity to working group by end of day today to be included. Focus of this call to go through those items and see which ones we feel most strongly about. There are a few that we do have pull requests out already.
16:06:27 [Kim]
Kathy: when they going to pull requests they get a new number pull requests already – device sensoris 138
16:07:15 [Kim]
Kathy: other ones are single key shortcuts, touch with assistive technology, pointer gestures, no accidental activation and device sensors, change of content
16:08:10 [Kim]
Kathy: the ones we don't have pull requests on are orientation, target size, pointer, concurrent mechanism (pointer, concurrent mechanism may be can differ for now – will take more significant work to get them finalized)
16:08:28 [Kim]
Kathy: pointers with additional sensors which is the same basically as device sensors
16:08:39 [Kim]
Kathy: also speech input one and noninterference of AT
16:08:46 [Jatin]
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16:09:02 [Kim]
Kathy: two I was talking about for Detlev with is 62 and 61, pointer with sensors, pointer with additional gestures
16:09:16 [Kim]
Detlev: I don't have them now but I can't assign myself
16:09:27 [Kim]
Kathy: I can't assign either
16:09:39 [Jatin]
+present
16:09:56 [shadi]
present+
16:09:57 [Kim]
Kathy: the big question is which of these do we feel strongly about putting into the first release and which ones are we okay with not having in there
16:09:57 [shadi]
q+
16:10:58 [Kim]
Kathy: 10 total – six already have four requests
16:12:12 [Kim]
Kathy: orientation and target size are almost done – 70 and 60.
16:12:42 [Kim]
Kathy: Pointer and concurrent mechanism I don't think we should worry about getting in – significant comments
16:13:53 [Kim]
Detlev: keyboard one – maybe could be covered with note
16:14:13 [Kim]
Kathy: I agree we could say that that one is something that we're going to do later, we visit for silver
16:14:38 [Kim]
Kathy: that leaves us pointer in puts additional sensors, speech
16:15:24 [Jatin]
can you please post the SC link?
16:15:27 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132
16:15:39 [Kim]
Kathy: this is pointer gestures
16:16:28 [Kim]
Shadi: use widget called assignees to assign – are you seeing that
16:16:43 [Kim]
Detlev: for me it looks like read-only information
16:17:26 [Kim]
Shadi: click assignees – I can assign
16:17:27 [jon_avila]
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16:17:33 [jon_avila]
present+jon_avila
16:17:50 [Kim]
present+ Kim
16:17:56 [shadi]
q-
16:18:02 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132
16:18:55 [Kim]
Detlev: tap right next to issues is pull request
16:20:37 [Kim]
Detlev: tricky thing from the testing point of view is you couldn't test this without having a mobile device
16:20:55 [Kim]
Kathy: isn't that no different than having a desktop or laptop to work with a keyboard
16:21:27 [Kim]
Detlev: it changes the game– they have to bring up something on mobile device, maybe several
16:21:50 [Kim]
Kim: it's exactly what we want to encourage
16:22:07 [Kim]
Chris: if you want to support mobile devices you have to test on mobile devices – that doesn't seem like a big issue to me
16:22:35 [Kim]
Kathy: speech input and noninterference with assistive technology those are the two remaining ones
16:22:44 [Kim]
Kathy: noninterference assigned to Josh
16:25:52 [Kim]
Kathy: we've taken out pointer, concurrent mechanisms and keyboard with AT
16:26:32 [Kim]
Kim: should have testers that can look across technologies
16:26:34 [Kim]
Kathy: noninterference – you don't need to be extra with everything
16:27:07 [Kim]
Detlev: like web design isn't using certain keyboard shortcuts because they know it's needed for AT
16:27:26 [Kim]
Kathy: big example here use of role equals application
16:27:33 [Kim]
Detlev: that's one technique
16:28:03 [Kim]
Kathy: we could put this one in and put a note about it being potentially and get people's feedback and asked for a wider thing
16:28:29 [Kim]
Kathy: Lisa had suggested that this could be merged in with standard APIs number 46
16:29:09 [Kim]
Chris: I was reading through standardized APIs 46 – short text at the top doesn't seem to match up but bottom description matches up perfectly
16:31:32 [Kim]
Jon: my feeling is noninterference in there now is narrow so there does need to be something in there. but I do hear people say that the user agent issue. I've run into issues in the past where the page had too many elements so not responsive to AT
16:34:28 [Kim]
Chris: there's very little about speech across the board, where the noninterference just trying to broaden
16:35:19 [chriscm]
present+ chriscm
16:35:24 [chriscm]
Sorry all, have to drop off!
16:38:01 [Kathy]
Single key shortcut alternative Change of content Touch with Assistive Technology Pointer gestures No Accidental Activation Device sensors Orientation Target Size Pointer inputs with additional sensors Speech Input
16:38:26 [Kim]
Kathy: here's the list of 10
16:38:49 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2
16:39:39 [Kim]
This one has a pull request – David put out there, we looked at it and commented it in the mobile task force. That was included in our 10 because it had a label of mobile in it, but it's not really a mobile one. So we could add noninterference of AT because that is not really a mobile one
16:40:35 [Kim]
Kathy: does anyone have objections to this list of 10?
16:41:30 [Kim]
Kathy: that leaves out pointer, concurrent input mechanism, keyboard with AT and noninterference of AT would be left out – just at this time. they could all get in later
16:41:35 [Kim]
no objections
16:41:45 [Kim]
Kathy: I will go ahead and submit these to Andrew and Josh
16:42:05 [Kim]
Kathy: we don't have anybody doing speech input right now. Jon, could you do the pull request on it?
16:42:26 [Kim]
Jon: I can do the pull request, but not anything else on it
16:43:01 [Kim]
Kathy: Kim and I will try to keep up with comments on it if there are
16:43:21 [Kathy]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/68
16:43:22 [Kim]
Kathy: speech input number 68
16:45:01 [Kim]
Kathy: is there anything in orientation that's here still outstanding?
16:45:45 [Kim]
Jon: 4 issue was notification of change versus not clouding the issue by putting that in there as well
16:46:27 [Kim]
Kathy: so I think we're in good shape for these 10
16:47:01 [Kim]
Kathy: does anybody have any concerns about comments on any of these 10
16:49:00 [shadi]
q+
16:49:46 [shadi]
ack me
16:50:12 [Kim]
Kathy: important to look at these as a whole
16:51:51 [Kim]
Kathy: proposal that just came out to put SCs in working draft, marking as such, this would encourage comment
16:52:31 [Kim]
Kathy: what I heard from Andrew is just because something doesn't get into the first public working draft does not mean that it can't be added in later
16:53:07 [Kim]
Shadi: my hope is that it will be linked – there are other ideas out there and maybe include links to github
16:53:29 [Kim]
Kathy: this is one way to move forward. We've got one more meeting before CSUN
16:54:41 [Kim]
Jon: yes – especially if you can also get a link in where other things are being discussed
16:55:15 [Kim]
+1 to a link
16:55:57 [Kim]
Shadi: 2.1.1 keyboard interfaces
16:56:24 [shadi]
s/Shadi/Jatin
16:56:40 [Kim]
Kathy: no change to that. We have success criteria that were proposed relating to touch – touch with AT, target size, pointer gestures, pointers with additional sensors, all related
16:57:12 [Kim]
Jatin: different methods of input – keyboard still applicable?
16:58:35 [Kim]
Jon: we are still requiring that keyboard interface be present – doesn't have to be a physical keyboard. As an example in iOS you can turn on voiceover and turn on speech and iOS has a sticky key feature. By using that voiceover feature you can then access the device with the keyboard using voiceover – proved that it can be done through the keyboard interface even though it's not...
16:58:37 [Kim]
...supported...
16:58:38 [Kim]
...without the ATrunning.
16:59:29 [Kim]
Jon: it needs to be there in order to support a wide variety of assistive technologies. We also want to be supported with assistive technologies. multiple interfaces available – you don't have to carry a keyboard – so users can choose what works best for them
17:00:27 [Kim]
Kathy: are we saying we are recommending having a link or an appendix with all the other SCs, or to make a first draft on github so people can comment on them?
17:01:12 [Kim]
Jon: definitely a link – maybe not an appendix. But in my opinion I would like to see a section – here are some ideas – then we could get more feedback. Because a lot of people are not going to follow the link. But I'm not sure there is agreement on that
17:01:50 [Kim]
Kathy: making note about link
17:02:25 [Kim]
Kathy: I'll send out this list of 10 items to Josh. It looks like there's support for this. Thanks for all your help
17:03:59 [Kim]
zakim, list participants
17:03:59 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, present, shadi, jon_avila, Kim, chriscm
17:04:37 [Kim]
Present+ Detlev, Jatin
17:04:43 [Kim]
zakim, list participants
17:04:43 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, present, shadi, jon_avila, Kim, chriscm, Detlev, Jatin
17:04:57 [Kim]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim
17:18:57 [Kim]
rrsagent, bye
17:18:57 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items