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15:58:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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15:58:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
15:58:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:58:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
15:58:33 <trackbot> Date: 15 February 2017
15:58:45 <Linda> present+ Linda
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15:59:02 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
15:59:04 <phila_> trackbot, start meeting
15:59:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
15:59:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
15:59:10 <trackbot> Date: 15 February 2017
15:59:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:59:25 <phila_> s/Working/BP Sub/
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15:59:53 <Linda> regrets+ Ed, Scott
16:00:06 <ClemensPortele> present+ ClemensPortele
16:00:13 <AndreaPerego> chair: Linda
16:00:56 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20170215
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16:01:45 <phila> present+
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16:03:26 <byroncinnz> present+ byroncinnz
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16:04:01 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
16:04:08 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
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16:05:07 <LarsG> present+
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16:08:42 <joshlieberman> present+ joshlieberman
16:09:23 <billroberts> scribe:billroberts
16:09:29 <phila> scribe: Bill
16:09:32 <AndreaPerego> chair: jtandy
16:09:33 <phila> scribeNick: billroberts
16:09:43 <phila> Topic: Preliminaries
16:09:51 <jtandy> minutes of last meeting: https://www.w3.org/2017/02/01-sdwbp-minutes
16:10:06 <Linda_> +1
16:10:08 <billroberts> PROPOSED:approve minutes of last meeting
16:10:09 <jtandy> +1
16:10:12 <ClemensPortele> +1
16:10:17 <LarsG> +0 (wasn't there)
16:10:19 <billroberts> 0 - wasn't there
16:10:29 <AndreaPerego> +1
16:10:32 <joshlieberman> +1
16:10:36 <byroncinnz> +0 wasn't there
16:10:39 <phila> Resolved: Previous minutes approved
16:11:03 <billroberts> Patent call: no issues raised
16:11:12 <AndreaPerego> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
16:11:37 <billroberts> Topic: backlog and sprint plan
16:12:15 <jtandy> sprint plan https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document
16:13:25 <billroberts> Jeremy and Linda have prioritised work items for the next sprint: Feb to Mid March
16:13:30 <ClausStadler__> ClausStadler__ has joined #sdwbp
16:13:43 <billroberts> ...ready to release a new iteration at the Delft face to face meeting
16:14:28 <billroberts> jtandy: has added some items into the Mid March - end April sprint as well - mainly editorial issues.  This sprint is the last opportunity for substantive change
16:15:29 <billroberts> jtandy: Coordinate Reference Systems work for the current sprint - Byron is working on it
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16:15:57 <billroberts> byroncinnz: I've put in a pull request a couple of days ago
16:16:15 <billroberts> jtandy: thanks! will review and include it in this sprint
16:16:52 <billroberts> byroncinnz: have kept the two BPs separate and tried to make them more distinct.  Have cleaned up language around accuracy and precision
16:17:21 <billroberts> ...a lot of the issues around datum rather than CRS.
16:17:48 <billroberts> ...and took out some of the more general stuff on CRS from BP3 but left it in BP17.
16:18:07 <billroberts> ...I suggest moving BP3 later in the document as less important in general than BP17
16:18:27 <ClausStadler__> present+ ClausStadler
16:18:37 <billroberts> jtandy: we want to move BP17 into the 'body' of hte document. It's currently sitting in the 'Other' section
16:18:53 <AndreaPerego> s/hte/the/
16:19:03 <billroberts> jtandy: and we can recommend WGS84 for most simple/default cases?
16:19:09 <billroberts> byroncinnz: yes
16:19:26 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
16:19:46 <jtandy> q?
16:21:07 <phila> q+
16:21:19 <jtandy> ack phil
16:21:25 <billroberts> jtandy: other blocks of tasks in the sprint plan: Dataset metadata (BP1)
16:21:28 <joshlieberman> q+
16:21:29 <phila> -> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/charter/ Draft new WG
16:22:15 <billroberts> phila: following on from previous DCAT discussions, now preparing a new working group which will probably involve updates to DCAT.  The new working group is on content negotiation by profile
16:22:31 <AndreaPerego> q+ to mention some work planned in OGC about GeoDCAT-AP
16:22:46 <jtandy> q?
16:22:50 <jtandy> ack joshlieberman
16:22:55 <billroberts> jtandy: notes that we shouldn't tie ourselves to a specific version of DCAT because new things are coming
16:23:35 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
16:23:35 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to mention some work planned in OGC about GeoDCAT-AP
16:23:35 <billroberts> joshlieberman: there is work on DCAT in OGC Testbed-12 and will be in Testbed-13.  So the recommendation on DCAT should probably say 'keep an eye on it'
16:24:28 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: notes the OGC work on DCAT. Also there was a meeting at JRC on metadata and DCAT and possible collaboration with W3C
16:25:36 <AndreaPerego> q+
16:26:12 <jtandy> regrets+ ScottSimmons
16:26:13 <billroberts> phila: let's discuss this in Delft to get input into next working group plans.  Also note the intention to continue collaborating between OGC and W3C
16:27:25 <billroberts> jtandy: we need to put the essence of these DCAT discussions into BP1
16:27:30 <AndreaPerego> I can contribute.
16:27:37 <billroberts> jtandy: volunteers to do that for us?
16:28:21 <jtandy> q?
16:28:30 <billroberts> jtandy: thanks Andrea. But I know you have work to do on BP8. Can anyone take a lead on BP1, to work with Andrea?
16:29:14 <billroberts> joshlieberman: I can work on BP1 with Andrea
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16:29:24 <jtandy> q?
16:29:28 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
16:30:25 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: is there a risk that the new OGC working group and W3C group will overlap and possibly coming up with competing solutions? To avoid that we should make sure we coordinate
16:30:36 <billroberts> phila: to avoid that risk, we should have a liaison
16:31:08 <billroberts> joshlieberman: it needs to be a collaboration bewteen the metadata and geosemantics groups of OGC and we can finalise that in Delft
16:31:32 <jtandy> q?
16:31:35 <joshlieberman> Yes, as of last night...
16:32:00 <AndreaPerego> s/bewteen/between/
16:32:02 <phila> action: phila to talk to OGC, Andrea etc. about liaison wrt Data Exchange WG
16:32:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-267 - Talk to ogc, andrea etc. about liaison wrt data exchange wg [on Phil Archer - due 2017-02-22].
16:32:09 <billroberts> jtandy: next section is Spatial Data vocabularies and file formats
16:32:46 <billroberts> jtandy: Andrea is working on BP8 on different representations of geometries
16:33:28 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: I'm preparing examples to go in BP8.  And trying to revise BP8 text to provide more precise guidance.  I have a structure based on usage patterns (see mailing list)
16:33:28 <AndreaPerego> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Feb/0376.html
16:33:41 <billroberts> ...waiting for feedback on that
16:34:24 <billroberts> ...it might be too simple, but it's a starting point.  What are the main approaches we see in practice?
16:34:36 <billroberts> ...3 options listed in the mail linked above
16:36:03 <billroberts> ...Option 1 is probably best for web developers. (geometries as literals in the data) - as long as the geometry is not too big
16:36:12 <jtandy> q?
16:36:58 <billroberts> ...Option 2 (use HTTP URI for the geometry) is fine for LD people, maybe less so for web developers - allows geometry to be managed separately from other data, so more flexible
16:37:04 <ClemensPortele> q+
16:37:11 <jtandy> q?
16:37:39 <billroberts> ...Option 3 is often used by LD people but may be complicated in practice. Geometry is less re-usable
16:37:57 <billroberts> ...will review the pros and cons of each of those options
16:38:19 <jtandy> ack ClemensPortele
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16:38:25 <billroberts> jtandy: please provide feedback on Andrea's idea via the mailing list
16:38:59 <joshlieberman_> Option 2 is best for multiple geometry options, for a choice of geometry roles or scales.
16:39:03 <joshlieberman_> q+
16:39:12 <billroberts> ClemensPortele: need to clarify the context. eg GeoJSON often falls in category 3.
16:39:39 <jtandy> q?
16:40:09 <billroberts> ...and note that we agreed we would not only take an RDF perspective. Will provide more detail via mailing list
16:40:19 <jtandy> ack joshlieberman_
16:40:38 <billroberts> joshlieberman_: there is a distinction between having a geometry as a literal and having coordinate positions as a literal
16:41:00 <billroberts> ...often people represent the position as a literal but provide other information about the geometry in a non-literal way
16:41:16 <billroberts> ...so we should make a distinction between geometry and coordinate positions
16:41:35 <jtandy> q?
16:42:03 <billroberts> jtandy: BP10 is another high priority activity
16:42:32 <billroberts> ...choice of vocabulary for describing spatial data
16:42:46 <billroberts> ...We should provide advice people on how to make a choice of vocab
16:42:48 <joshlieberman_> could we use vocabulary, encoding, serialization? file format is a blunt instrument.
16:43:30 <billroberts> jtandy: this could be a big piece of work
16:44:34 <billroberts> jtandy: Bill, can you take ownership of BP10?
16:44:41 <billroberts> yes
16:44:51 <billroberts> jtandy: note that Bill will need assistance
16:45:26 <AndreaPerego> I can help - considering the relationship with BP8
16:45:35 <billroberts> jtandy: BP9
16:45:57 <billroberts> jtandy: Josh had an action to talk to Christine about the augmented reality community
16:46:21 <jtandy> q?
16:46:29 <billroberts> jtandy: we should start a discussion on whether to merge BP9 and BP10
16:46:52 <billroberts> joshlieberman_: relative positioning is often about a reference system, so a bit different to spatial relationships
16:47:05 <billroberts> jtandy: so maybe closer to the CRS work that Byron has been doing?
16:47:25 <billroberts> joshlieberman_: it's about describing a position relative to another object or to a human perspective
16:47:49 <billroberts> jtandy: I know you are working on BP1 too, but could I ask you to lead BP9 as well?
16:47:58 <billroberts> joshlieberman_: yes
16:48:37 <billroberts> jtandy: I'll start a discussion thread for whether we need a 'samePlaceAs' property
16:49:12 <billroberts> jtandy: BP14 depends on vocabulary choices.  Depends to some extent on BP10.  Lars said he'd check with German colleagues about the Beacon format
16:50:08 <billroberts> LarsG: yes, it looks like it should work fine
16:50:19 <billroberts> jtandy: I'll take the lead on BP14
16:51:04 <AndreaPerego> q+ to say that this is partially included also in BP8 - geometry complexity
16:51:05 <billroberts> jtandy: BP16 is vague and partly covered by DWBP so I suggest deleting and moving anything useful to BP10
16:51:10 <jtandy> q?
16:51:13 <billroberts> jtandy: any objections to that?
16:51:15 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
16:51:15 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to say that this is partially included also in BP8 - geometry complexity
16:51:33 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: I see a relation between BP16 and BP8
16:51:44 <billroberts> ...so good idea to delete
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16:52:22 <billroberts> jtandy: Section 11 on how to use the BPs will be easier once the individual BPs are more advanced
16:52:43 <jtandy> q?
16:53:09 <billroberts> jtandy: next block is Spatial data access and APIs
16:53:20 <billroberts> ...BP11: 'convenience APIs'
16:53:41 <billroberts> ...since we started the WG, a lot of what we wanted to say has been added to DWBP
16:54:07 <billroberts> ...so we need to think about how we tie things back to DWBP and what is special about spatial data with respect to APIs
16:54:31 <billroberts> ...Can anyone on the call take the lead on moving BP11 along?
16:54:41 <billroberts> ClemensPortele volunteers to work on BP11
16:55:23 <AndreaPerego> q+
16:56:07 <billroberts> jtandy: Bart's work is relevant to BP11 - coordinate with Clemens on this
16:56:08 <phila> q+ to ask for clarity on a couple of points in the new publiction
16:56:11 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
16:56:25 <LarsG> LarsG has left #sdwbp
16:56:37 <joshlieberman> q+
16:56:43 <phila> q- later
16:56:43 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: I can add another example for BP11 around the CSW API
16:57:38 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: many of our examples are more about Spatial Things than geometries
16:58:04 <billroberts> joshlieberman: OGC APIs serve Features rather than Geometries
16:58:45 <billroberts> ... there is an aspiration to extend that but not yet an established practice
16:58:46 <phila> ack jo
16:59:22 <billroberts> jtandy: can we add a placeholder for this before the Delft meeting (as no substantive changes after that)
16:59:59 <jtandy> q?
17:00:29 <billroberts> jtandy: minor work to do on BP12 and BP13.  Could move those to next sprint if necessary
17:00:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/15-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
17:00:36 <joshlieberman> That said, OGC services are used to reference features with geometries, that are then linked to by objects representing other feature properties (e.g. demographic info linked to population units).
17:01:21 <billroberts> jtandy: properties that change over time. BP6 nearly complete. Linda asking Geonovum colleagues for examples
17:01:41 <AndreaPerego> q+
17:01:50 <phila> q- later
17:01:51 <billroberts> jtandy: Editorial questions. BP2 - long discussion on mailing list about units of measure
17:01:53 <jtandy> q?
17:01:58 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
17:02:04 <billroberts> ...suggest removing this BP unless we can identify something specifically spatial
17:02:27 <billroberts> AndreaPerego: there is an example of units of measures in the examples, copied from DWBP, about spatial resolution
17:03:13 <billroberts> ...example 15 is taken from Data Quality Vocabulary
17:03:33 <billroberts> ...and we need to make sure we don't provide conflicting recommendations
17:03:45 <billroberts> jtandy: will start new discussion thread around deleting BP2
17:03:59 <billroberts> jtandy: we need to review public comments
17:04:03 <jtandy> q?
17:04:07 <jtandy> ack phila
17:04:07 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask for clarity on a couple of points in the new publiction
17:04:15 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-sdw-bp-20170216/#sotd
17:04:27 <billroberts> phila: I need help on the Status of this Document section.
17:05:22 <billroberts> jtandy: item 3 still pending. Item 4 will be done this time.  Still want feedback on BP7
17:05:22 <jtandy> q?
17:05:39 <joshlieberman> bye
17:05:51 <billroberts> jtandy: thanks to folks who agreed to own secions of the document
17:05:51 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
17:05:54 <billroberts> thanks and bye
17:06:02 <ClemensPortele> thanks, bye
17:06:12 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/15-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
17:06:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx
17:08:40 <AndreaPerego> s/chair: Linda/chair: jtandy/
17:08:46 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:08:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/15-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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