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17:58:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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17:58:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
17:58:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
17:58:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:58:46 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2017
17:58:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:58:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich and Joanie
17:59:00 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:59:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
18:00:34 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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18:02:14 <janina> present+
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18:03:49 <jongund1> present+ jongund
18:03:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2017Feb/0003.html
18:05:12 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC, MCK
18:06:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2017Feb/0003.html
18:06:40 <mck> mck has joined #aria
18:06:42 <joanie> scribe: joanie
18:06:46 <joanie> Topic: Rich to be out for move
18:06:55 <mck> present+ matt_king
18:07:01 <joanie> RS: I am going to be out for a month.
18:07:12 <joanie> RS: This is moving-related.
18:07:13 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:07:35 <joanie> RS: Joanie is co-chair and will be the "whip driver"
18:07:45 <joanie> Topic: DPUB-AAM Decision to go to CR
18:07:51 <joanie> RS: There were only votes in support.
18:07:58 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2017Feb/0000.html
18:08:35 <joanie> RS: Therefore the conclusion is that DPub AAM will go to CR.
18:08:47 <joanie> RS: Joanie will you post the decision to the working group?
18:08:50 <joanie> JD: Sure.
18:09:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Testable statements and test files (what is left for ARIA and
18:09:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> Core-AAM) and is help needed?
18:09:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
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18:10:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> Joanie: Regarding testable statements and test files, I received some questions from Stefan as to what goes on the Wiki and who will do the review of the the validity of the questions
18:10:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
18:10:27 <joanie> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes#Existing_features_changed_in_1.1
18:11:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: This is related to something I brought up a couple weeks ago where there was this other page that I created that I did not believe was used to create the testable statements.
18:11:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: Michael did you have an opportunity to compare?
18:11:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> MichaelC: It is on my list
18:12:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: Anything that changes for 1.1 needs to be tested.
18:12:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
18:12:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Stefan: I can take 1 or 2 more
18:12:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> Stefan: Feel free to post me to verify the quality
18:13:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> Stefan: I am volunteering to do more tests
18:13:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael: let me block time on friday to compare
18:14:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: post me on what progress you made by Monday'
18:14:23 <clown> q?
18:14:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> q-
18:15:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: whatever is not included can easily be testable statements
18:15:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: some Rich had done
18:15:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: anything else on this subtopic?
18:15:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: crickets
18:17:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: we have a chicken and egg problem. I know about my platform well and so some statements are not quite valid. In these cases I had to programmatically need to adapt my test to address those.
18:17:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: the correct canonical way to address the statements then is not quite there
18:17:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: do the best we can and aim for consistency
18:18:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: if something is random then we have to go through each statement.
18:19:46 <clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#informative-references
18:20:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: I think our issues are the core aam does not necessarily poin to the exact interface - UIA was discussed the other day
18:20:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: the documentation is in the Core-AAM
18:21:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: IA2 is supposed to move to github
18:21:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> joseph: I will ask Bogden regarding an updated UIA link
18:22:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: it is a combination of atk and ATSPI2 on my platform
18:22:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: what you might see for the tables for ATK are slightly different
18:22:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: as long as you are consistent we can fix it later
18:23:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: the api docs. are the way to go
18:23:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: and the existing test harness examples that are there
18:23:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: Stefan do the links in the Core -AAM address your needs?
18:24:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: AAPIs
18:24:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> Stefan: this is a test harness for 1.1. will the same things be executed for aria 1.0
18:25:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> stefan: ?
18:25:39 <clown> q+ to warn that the reference to AX API documentation in the Core-AAM is out of date
18:29:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: My understanding is that we are testing aria 1.1. Even though we care about Edge’s implemementation
18:29:46 <jongund1> q+
18:30:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: We must completee ARIA 1.1 CR which does not include full Edget browsers testing for 1.0.  We will need a volunteer effort to do that for all browsers post 1.1.
18:30:35 <joanie> ack jon
18:31:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> jongund: I have a question on msaa + IA2. Is she a coder?
18:31:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: yest
18:31:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: yes
18:31:35 <joanie> q?
18:31:58 <joanie> ack clown
18:31:58 <Zakim> clown, you wanted to warn that the reference to AX API documentation in the Core-AAM is out of date
18:32:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Moe kraft knows COM, MSAA, and accprobe
18:32:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> clown: the current references to AXAPI in the Core AAM is out of date
18:32:40 <clown> https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001078
18:33:34 <joanie> q?
18:34:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: as these 1.1 tests get developed  in the new format finding problems is fast
18:35:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: the other thing on this general topic is we want to operate under the assumption (at least for Windows). If we are not ATK/ATSPI we are going to have to do manual testing
18:36:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: even for those platforms that there is not an ATTA adapter you can do the manual test and it it will wait for you until you are done
18:36:26 <jongund1> q+
18:36:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: just push a button to state the result
18:36:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: we need multiple people there to validate the result.
18:37:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: I dont’ trust humans and we should have more than one person doing the test on each platfrom
18:37:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: we have more than one people who can do that here at the Univ. of Illinois
18:37:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: we do have other people who helped last time that we can try to recruit again
18:38:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: Lori Lane and Mona Heath can help
18:38:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: these are more experienced people
18:39:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: we should not be relying on people setting up wpt on machines
18:40:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: will need a nightly build of Safari
18:41:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: I am going to talk to Shane. Given that the ATTA is stored in his github, I will see if he can host on his server. Otherwise, I will speak with Michael
18:41:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: Jon, please recruit now
18:42:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: worst case scenario we have redundant testers
18:42:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: I will conatact Lori and Mona today
18:43:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: Hopefully we can get Mona - she is retired. She and her husband are theatre adicts
18:44:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: I would like someone who knows UIA and can write instructions
18:45:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: Cynthia works at starbucks
18:45:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: cynthia is not in W3C
18:47:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: I iwll check back with Microsoft
18:47:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: we are done triaging 1.2 and we really need to get 1.1 out the door
18:48:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: what about testing meetings vs. meeting meetings
18:49:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: we could have live meetings without minutes
18:51:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: can have short meetings, minute, and then do test sessions that are not minuted
18:51:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: would like to do a training meeting at the next meeting
18:52:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
18:53:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: I want to invite people to the testing meeting
18:53:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> jon: accprobe is in the eclipse environment
18:54:36 <clown> https://github.com/IBMa/AccProbe
18:55:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> Carolyn MacLeod
18:56:36 <jongund1> .........................................................................................................................................
18:56:38 <jongund1> Join online meeting
18:56:39 <jongund1> https://meet.illinois.edu/jongund/4YTJDYB9
18:56:41 <jongund1> Join by Phone
18:56:43 <jongund1> +1 217 332 6338
18:56:44 <jongund1> +1 312 994 8410
18:56:46 <jongund1> +1 888 983 3631
18:56:47 <jongund1> Find a local number
18:56:49 <jongund1> Conference ID: 89211250
18:56:51 <jongund1> Forgot your dial-in PIN? | First online meeting?
18:56:52 <jongund1> .........................................................................................................................................
18:57:03 <jongund1> Meeting is at 11:00am Central Standard Time USA (Chicago Local Time)
18:59:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> joanie: if nothing else we will meet next week for a test focused meeting
18:59:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:59:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/09-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:59:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
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