13:47:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rqtf
13:47:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-irc
13:47:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rqtf
13:47:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:47:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:47:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:47:43 <trackbot> Date: 08 February 2017
13:48:16 <jasonjgw> agenda+ CAPTCHA: deriving focused questions and conclusions from the literature
13:48:43 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Literature reviews on other topics (authentication, Web of Things, personalization).
13:49:02 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Web of Things: accessibility use cases and requirements
13:49:21 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Miscellaneous topics of interest arising from our work
13:49:36 <jasonjgw> present+ jasonjgw
14:01:26 <MichaelC> present+
14:02:53 <scott_h> scott_h has joined #rqtf
14:03:18 <shadi> present+
14:04:47 <scott_h> present+
14:06:01 <shadi> scribe: shadi
14:06:18 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "CAPTCHA: deriving focused questions and conclusions from the literature" taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:07:19 <shadi> JW: good discussion last time
14:07:41 <shadi> ...want to capture it some and investigate key questions
14:08:03 <shadi> ...consistent finding in studies is that audio captchas are quite useless for everyone
14:08:35 <shadi> ...expect on-going contest between people designing audio captchas and people trying to crack them
14:08:45 <shadi> ...just like non-audio captchas
14:09:12 <shadi> ...interesting work at University of Washington
14:09:49 <shadi> ...wonder how vulnerable algorithms are to machine-learning
14:10:21 <shadi> ...questions approaches
14:10:52 <shadi> JS: want to be careful claiming "unreliable"
14:10:57 <scott_h> q+
14:11:04 <shadi> ...think identified certain percentage
14:11:07 <Judy> Judy has joined #rqtf
14:11:24 <shadi> ...should compare to non-disabled users
14:11:46 <shadi> ...want to quantify vis-a-vis, not just sole number
14:12:16 <shadi> ...also think need to point out that audio modality is different than visual
14:12:36 <shadi> ...it is temporal, not like visual where one can stare for longer
14:12:41 <jasonjgw> q+
14:12:43 <jasonjgw> q?
14:12:52 <shadi> ...need to be able to initiate repeat
14:13:00 <shadi> ack sc
14:13:23 <shadi> SH: think the literature will strengthen our arguments
14:13:52 <shadi> ...could maybe summarize key literature
14:14:06 <shadi> ...i could take that action item
14:14:28 <shadi> ...concerned that there may be hidden gems in the literature
14:14:39 <shadi> ...want to summarize key points of the papers
14:14:46 <Judy> q+
14:15:18 <shadi> ack jas
14:15:32 <shadi> JW: thinking along similar lines
14:15:49 <shadi> ...welcome that proposal
14:15:54 <shadi> ...any reactions to that?
14:15:57 <shadi> ack ju
14:16:16 <shadi> JB: think there may be several research paths we could go down
14:17:18 <shadi> ...can we prioritize particular directions
14:17:32 <shadi> ...so many tempting directions
14:17:40 <shadi> ...but maybe alternative ones
14:18:20 <shadi> SH: yes, if there is a quicker way to pull up the different options
14:18:49 <shadi> JB: maybe pick a question like "what alternative options have been proposed and which seem most feasible"
14:18:58 <jasonjgw> q+
14:19:01 <jasonjgw> q?
14:19:10 <shadi> ...this may toss half the literature
14:19:18 <shadi> ack jas
14:19:24 <shadi> JW: agree with Judy
14:19:43 <shadi> ...new research may be available
14:20:54 <shadi> ...captcha is anyonymous as opposed to password, biometrics, etc
14:21:06 <shadi> ...actual tasks are different
14:21:26 <jasonjgw> q?
14:21:27 <shadi> ...from authentication situation
14:22:10 <shadi> SH: alternative focus may give faster progress
14:22:21 <shadi> JW: hearing proposal coming forward
14:22:40 <shadi> ...want to focus on alternatives to captcha to establish human interaction
14:23:18 <shadi> JW: seems to be agreement
14:23:26 <shadi> ...Scott offered to take that action
14:23:33 <shadi> SH: happy to do that
14:23:49 <shadi> JW: can do bibliographic searches
14:23:59 <shadi> ...anyone else want to contribute?
14:25:10 <shadi> SAZ: wonder if others not on the call may be able to help?
14:25:23 <shadi> JW: will send out a message
14:26:28 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up next
14:26:28 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Literature reviews on other topics (authentication, Web of Things, personalization)." taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:27:30 <shadi> JW: status and progress on literature review for other topics?
14:28:49 <shadi> [silence]
14:29:09 <shadi> JW: suggest we take the same approach as with captchas
14:29:23 <shadi> ...define questions that would help us advance the topics
14:29:39 <shadi> ...with authentication seems user requirements
14:30:19 <shadi> ...like needing to memorize information
14:30:56 <shadi> [silence]
14:31:26 <shadi> JS: trying to think about the best way to approach this
14:31:48 <shadi> ...feel bad we did not take minutes with authentication group in Lisbon
14:32:16 <shadi> ...now that it pops up in CoGa and APA
14:32:29 <shadi> ...will not get solves in any one group
14:32:39 <shadi> ...but will need a number of groups
14:33:02 <shadi> ...don't think we have an issue with the specification
14:33:07 <jasonjgw> q+
14:33:18 <shadi> ...or rather we were not able to identify anything in the spec
14:33:32 <shadi> ...some issues in the devices
14:33:41 <shadi> ...but that is beyond W3C, really
14:33:55 <shadi> ...maybe only relevant to user agents
14:34:06 <shadi> ...that would take us to Web Platforms
14:34:21 <shadi> ...need to work together to address
14:34:40 <shadi> ...concerned about pushing where there is no implementation commitment
14:34:51 <shadi> ack jas
14:35:04 <shadi> JW: attended that group
14:35:29 <shadi> ...planning an API that allows different authentication mechanisms
14:35:54 <shadi> ...then cryptographic assertion about the authentication made
14:36:16 <shadi> ...servers to implement risk analysis
14:36:49 <shadi> ...like IP, device, etc
14:37:03 <shadi> ...raises questions about user requirements
14:37:22 <shadi> ...also wonder about the server-side analysis
14:37:33 <shadi> ...if there may be differentiation factors
14:37:43 <shadi> ...for people with disabilities
14:38:06 <shadi> ...also if devices that are trusted could include assistive devices
14:38:43 <jasonjgw> q?
14:39:38 <shadi> [silence]
14:39:59 <shadi> JW: could try to summarize the references we have so far
14:40:07 <shadi> ...any actions that people want to take?
14:41:03 <shadi> [silence]
14:41:18 <shadi> JW: will bring this back at a future meeting
14:43:11 <MichaelC> trackbot, status?
14:43:11 <trackbot> #rqtf is associated with #apa.
14:43:30 <jasonjgw> action: jasonjgw to summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent W3C work in the area).
14:43:30 <trackbot> Error finding 'jasonjgw'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.
14:44:07 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users
14:44:26 <jasonjgw> action: jjwhite to summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent W3C work in the area).
14:44:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2114 - Summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent w3c work in the area). [on Jason White - due 2017-02-15].
14:44:43 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-2114 with product-52
14:44:43 <trackbot> action-2114 (Summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent w3c work in the area).) associated with product-52.
14:45:21 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/52
14:48:07 <jasonjgw> action: shollier to categorize CAPTCHA references and to identify those which may lead to efficacious alternatives to CAPTCHA as means of proving human (rather than machine) interaction.
14:48:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2115 - Categorize captcha references and to identify those which may lead to efficacious alternatives to captcha as means of proving human (rather than machine) interaction. [on Scott Hollier - due 2017-02-15].
14:50:10 <jasonjgw> zakim, take up next
14:50:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Web of Things: accessibility use cases and requirements" taken up [from jasonjgw]
14:50:37 <shadi> SH: had a look around for literature and didn't find much
14:50:52 <shadi> ...thought of emergency situations
14:51:06 <shadi> ...for example medical devices
14:51:32 <shadi> ...other idea on new technologies replacing old ones
14:51:43 <shadi> ...multiple interfaces may be useful
14:51:55 <shadi> ...also thought of physical fallbacks
14:52:06 <shadi> ...like door knob
14:52:16 <shadi> ...or physical light switch
14:52:17 <shadi> q+
14:52:28 <jasonjgw> q+
14:52:53 <shadi> ack jas
14:52:55 <shadi> ack me
14:53:45 <jasonjgw> Shadi welcomes Scott's comments and invites him to integrate his comments into the wiki page.
14:54:49 <jasonjgw> Shadi also plans to review Scott's comments with regard to the question (often raised in these discussions) of whether the challenges raised disproportionately affect people with disabilities.
14:55:27 <shadi> SH: think emergency scenario could be more specific to people with disabilities
14:56:26 <jasonjgw> Shadi notes a connection between problems arising in emergency situations and related work in security and disaster management.
14:57:04 <shadi> JS: appreciate your comments Scott, very spot-on
14:57:28 <shadi> ...but have had push-back so need to be specific about things specific to people with disabilities
14:57:58 <shadi> ...like advice not to use elevators in case of fire doesn't help someone who cannot do stairs
14:58:08 <shadi> ...things like that need to be teased out
14:58:40 <shadi> ...also alternatives to default interfaces
14:59:03 <shadi> ...preference for people to login manufacturer website to get services
14:59:19 <shadi> ...like vulnerability of hacking
14:59:35 <shadi> ...not sure what the specific aspect of people with disabilities is
14:59:49 <shadi> ...but old discussion about alternatives
14:59:59 <shadi> ...that's a fundamental principle
15:00:01 <jasonjgw> q?
15:02:37 <jasonjgw> Shadi briefly notes accessibility issues emerging in connection with payments: encompassing UI issues as well as hardware-related concerns. Payment scenarios bring together several of the topics we're already considering. Shadi asks whether the Web payments work is relevant here.
15:02:37 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:02:37 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Miscellaneous topics of interest arising from our work" taken up [from jasonjgw]
15:03:01 <shadi> JS: long term commitment on this
15:03:09 <shadi> ...happening in APA
15:03:18 <shadi> ...with Web Payments
15:03:28 <shadi> ...specific APIs
15:03:53 <shadi> ...big target audience
15:04:50 <jasonjgw> Shadi acknowledges the value of its being on the APA agenda, while noting the further issues raised by public kiosks, payment devices, etc.
15:07:30 <shadi> zakim, bye
15:07:30 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, MichaelC, shadi, scott_h
15:07:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rqtf
15:07:42 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:49 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-minutes.html shadi
15:08:01 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
15:08:01 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-actions.rdf :
15:08:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jasonjgw to summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent W3C work in the area). [1]
15:08:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-irc#T14-43-30
15:08:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jjwhite to summarize tentative authentication questions/issues on the wiki (as derived from recent W3C work in the area). [2]
15:08:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-irc#T14-44-26
15:08:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: shollier to categorize CAPTCHA references and to identify those which may lead to efficacious alternatives to CAPTCHA as means of proving human (rather than machine) interaction. [3]
15:08:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/08-rqtf-irc#T14-48-07
15:08:06 <jasonjgw> zakim, bye