14:00:41 RRSAgent has joined #wpay 14:00:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-wpay-irc 14:00:49 Meeting: Credit Transfer 14:00:59 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2017Feb/0004.html 14:01:01 Chair: Ian 14:01:18 cyrilV has joined #wpay 14:01:34 present+ Cyril 14:01:38 present+ 14:04:24 present+ Todd 14:05:03 topic: ISO 3611-2 v. CLDR 14:05:12 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/issues/34 14:06:50 Kris: SWIFT uses 3166-2 14:07:01 ..and ISO 20022 does 14:07:09 http://cldr.unicode.org/ 14:08:00 Cyril: The parties involved in the protocol know how to process the data..and the data is scheme specific. 14:08:39 supportedCountries 14:11:21 (Matt's issue https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/issues/33 ) 14:12:01 (question is to add back supportedNetworks) 14:12:23 (We may need to change the name to avoid confusion) 14:13:43 Cyril: Not sure how much merchants can filter on country in light of contractual obligations to schemes 14:14:47 IJ: Country is for ecommerce, network is for payment 14:15:51 Q. Do we need the network filter also? 14:15:55 (from email: Matt: +1) 14:15:59 Cyril: +1 14:16:01 + 14:16:11 (Todd: +1) 14:19:03 Kris: +1 14:19:49 q+ 14:20:13 ack cyr 14:20:37 cyrilV: Merchant has to obey certain laws. 14:20:56 ...and network rules 14:23:50 IJ: Are there schemes that support country filters? 14:24:28 Todd: I look at this as include v. exclude. There are obviously countries that merchants can't do business with for some rules. The network providers would already know and would not allow the transactions to occur in any case. 14:24:40 ...so I think an include feature is useful. 14:26:41 Cyril: I think that "people will know" what they can't use 14:26:55 ..if the merchant can use the API to cherry-pick countries, the user experience will be a nightmare 14:27:24 ...merchants might be confused about the different between shopping and payment 14:28:24 ...I would be concerned that an app is not available _without explanation_ to the user 14:33:24 IJ: The question for me here (around countries) is whether there are other credit transfer systems that allow merchants to arbitrarily refuse to accept credit transfers from certain countries 14:35:05 present+ vincent 14:35:34 vincent: Merchants need to be able to say "I don't accept payments from this country" 14:35:52 ...e.g., a US person cannot accept payments from banned countries...the banks block the payments 14:37:06 Q: Should the right user experience be (1) not show a payment app based on merchant info or (2) let the payment happen and allow the network to produce the error. 14:39:11 vincent: The use case I have in mind is where the merchant knows that there are additional charges 14:39:24 ...and so the merchant decides not to accept credit transfers from those countries. 14:39:34 ..and I think then that the merchant would rather not show the payment app 14:39:54 cyril: What is the implication in our API? 14:40:00 Ian: country code in the filter 14:40:43 Cyril: the country filter does not make sense for some schemes. (And the spec should make that clear) 14:44:06 IJ: I think we have to be careful to avoid semantic relationships among filter fields...because that makes it harder to do purely syntactic filtering without semantic checks (that are payment method specific) 14:44:54 IJ: Are people comfortable including the field, knowing that it's syntactic filtering only, and relying on the merchant and payment app to provide relevant information correctly. 14:47:38 Kris:From a user experience point of view, I want to avoid this: you initiate credit transfer and then a couple of hours later you get an email that says the credit transfer can't happen 14:47:55 ..if you can exclude from the beginning that you can't make a payment when you order from belgium to france 14:48:11 Cyril: Is that about shipping (address)/ 14:48:19 ..is it about payment or delivery? 14:48:43 kriske has joined #wpay 14:49:13 s/Kris:/Vincent: 14:49:29 IJ: Does your use case, Vincent apply to digital goods? 14:49:34 Vincent: yes 14:49:54 Todd: What's the difference between ship-to and bill-to address? 14:50:19 ...for ACH, the account tied to the payment ... the bill-to address is probably more important than ship-to 14:51:11 Vincent: In most cases it doesn't make a difference but it could make a difference (e.g., around taxes) 14:51:27 ...e.g., when UK exits SEPA there will be special tax arrangements put in place 14:51:37 Cyril: But that will be another scheme 14:53:16 === 14:53:18 Summary: 14:53:24 1) We need filtering by schema 14:53:55 2) It is possible that we don't need filter by country because other information around the purchase (e.g., shipping or billing information) can inform whether the merchant accepts credit transfer. 14:56:42 Cyril: I think we may still want to include a country filter because we don't know all the systems in the world....since we don't know what payment scenarios users will find themselves in, and so we should allow the payment app to try to gain a match 14:57:32 CyrilL: I think that Vincent is right when he speaks about Switzerland. 14:57:40 ..the European rules on fees are not the same 14:58:03 ...they are in SEPA in terms of protocols, but I believe that fees may vary 14:58:24 ...so the merchant may want to say I accept SEPA but not from this country due to fees 14:58:27 ...or taxes 14:59:24 ===== 14:59:31 Please look at vincent's file 14:59:45 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2017Feb/0004.html 14:59:53 ACTION: Ian to add back supported schemes 14:59:53 Created ACTION-190 - Add back supported schemes [on Ian Jacobs - due 2017-02-09]. 15:00:20 Topic: Next call 15:00:33 either 8 or 10 Feb at 9am ET or (15h00 Paris) 15:00:43 Todd: 10th 15:00:51 cyril: I can attend 10th 15:00:58 vincent: I am busy on the 10th 15:01:11 16h00 on the 10th? 15:01:31 I will send out an invitation! 15:02:03 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:02:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-wpay-minutes.html Ian 15:02:06 RRSAgent, set logs public 17:01:02 Zakim has left #wpay 17:52:07 sam has joined #wpay 18:08:11 RRSAgent, bye 18:08:11 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-wpay-actions.rdf : 18:08:11 ACTION: Ian to add back supported schemes [1] 18:08:11 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-wpay-irc#T14-59-53