16:18:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
16:18:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/23-dpub-irc
16:18:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:18:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
16:18:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
16:18:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:18:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
16:18:47 <trackbot> Date: 23 January 2017
16:18:52 <ivan> Chair: Garth
16:19:38 <ivan> Regrets: Daniel, Romain
16:19:43 <ivan> Agenda: CADExNBPO8Rv2Mg7ATJO55vRNKm8+KVc-R-_KrsBt2Om5OriBqQ@mail.gmail.com
16:20:09 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda call 2017-01-23: CADExNBPO8Rv2Mg7ATJO55vRNKm8+KVc-R-_KrsBt2Om5OriBqQ@mail.gmail.com
16:20:36 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda call 2017-01-23: http://www.w3.org/mid/CADExNBPO8Rv2Mg7ATJO55vRNKm8+KVc-R-_KrsBt2Om5OriBqQ@mail.gmail.com
16:20:43 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/CADExNBPO8Rv2Mg7ATJO55vRNKm8+KVc-R-_KrsBt2Om5OriBqQ@mail.gmail.com
16:31:44 <ivan> regrets+ Peter
16:49:59 <leonardr> leonardr has joined #dpub
16:50:18 <leonardr> present+ Leonard
16:56:31 <ivan> Present+
16:56:34 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has joined #dpub
16:56:57 <George> George has joined #dpub
16:57:29 <George> present+ George
16:57:38 <ivan> Present+ Hadrien
16:57:41 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:57:58 <HeatherF> HeatherF has joined #dpub
16:58:18 <HeatherF> present+ Heather_Flanagan
16:58:21 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has joined #dpub
16:59:34 <dkaplan3> present+ Deborah_Kaplan
16:59:51 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
17:00:25 <ivan> present+ garth
17:00:26 <NickRuffilo> NickRuffilo has joined #dpub
17:00:34 <NickRuffilo> scribenick: nickruffilo
17:00:34 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
17:00:44 <ivan> present+ NickRuffilo
17:00:47 <TimCole> present+ Tim_Cole
17:00:50 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
17:01:13 <VST_Rick> VST_Rick has joined #DPUB
17:01:16 <dauwhe> I'll scribe later
17:01:38 <ivan> present+ rick
17:01:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
17:02:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
17:02:26 <VST_Rick> present+ Rick_Johnson
17:02:28 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
17:02:36 <brady_duga> present+ duga
17:03:24 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "We have two new members.  They don't seem to be on the call at the moment, but if they show up, we can have them introduce themselves."
17:03:27 <astearns> present+
17:03:52 <NickRuffilo> ...: "Ivan, the other item you mentioned is about having members of the IG vote on the annotation spec."
17:04:19 <ivan> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/webannopr/
17:04:38 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
17:04:45 <laudrain> present+
17:05:05 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Actually, the co-chair of the group is on the call.  The annotations works has practically finished.  We published the proposed publications.  Now W3C members should vote if they are OK with this or not.  The voting form is linked above.  If you are an AC rep, you can take care of it yourself, otherwise you need to nag your AC rep to do it for you.  There are a number of people on the call
17:05:05 <NickRuffilo> who belong to member organizations.  There are some that are AC reps as well.  Thats all."
17:05:38 <NickRuffilo> Tim: "The recommendations are pretty much what we've discussed a few months back - no major revisions.  We just wanted to make you aware that we're finishing up."
17:06:33 <ivan> regrets+ Karen
17:08:44 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "Folks should consider themselves aware of voting.  Lets get into the agenda.  Brief update of the happenings on the IDPF merger.  There was an open meeting of interested parties at Digital Book World (DBW) last week.  Myself and Karen, Bill McCoy, George K, we discussed then had an open mic period.  There was some chime in.  There was a committee to save the IDPF, so it was entertaining
17:08:44 <NickRuffilo> .  It ended up going well, we ameliorated some of the concern.  The status of the merger is that it should be complete this week.  It is really just a membership exchange.  And Bill McCoy is tracking down the IP related items.  So there is still a few weeks of the ePub spec being finalized.  W3C is royalty free when it comes to IP, so we've been hunting down royalty free items.  So that's what
17:08:44 <NickRuffilo> we're working on.  If the merger completes, I can check that off my list."
17:08:50 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
17:08:50 <Zakim> Present: Leonard, ivan, George, Hadrien, dauwhe, Heather_Flanagan, Deborah_Kaplan, garth, Chris_Maden, NickRuffilo, Tim_Cole, rick, Bill_Kasdorf, Rick_Johnson, duga, astearns,
17:08:53 <Zakim> ... laudrain
17:08:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see laudrain, brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, VST_Rick, garth, NickRuffilo, TimCole, dkaplan3, HeatherF, George, cmaden2, leonardr, Zakim, RRSAgent, hadrien, ivan, dauwhe, Bert,
17:08:53 <Zakim> ... liam_, rego, plinss, iank_, ShaneM, JakeA, astearns, bigbluehat, trackbot
17:09:14 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
17:09:19 <HeatherF> q+
17:09:21 <Vlad> present+
17:09:26 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "Yes, the rest of the IDPF board was also available."
17:09:39 <ivan> q?
17:09:59 <NickRuffilo> George: "If anyone is involved and hasn't signed their IP release, please do so."
17:10:05 <ivan> ack HeatherF
17:10:06 <NickRuffilo> ack heather
17:10:07 <garth> q?
17:10:33 <NickRuffilo> Heather: "Is there a good place to point people to explaining what is happening?"
17:10:34 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has joined #dpub
17:11:06 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "IDPF.org is probably the best.  There are some that are member-only though."
17:11:07 <ivan> present+ vlad
17:11:30 <NickRuffilo> Bill: "Once it's official there will be a press release that can be pointed to."
17:12:01 <garth> q?
17:12:11 <NickRuffilo> Bill Kasdor: "I've gotten lots of positive comments from people at the conference."
17:12:41 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "Ivan, You've made some updates to the draft charter.  Would you like to discuss those?"
17:13:33 <Florian> Florian has joined #dpub
17:13:37 <garth> q?
17:14:49 <garth> q?
17:14:56 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I did some changes.  There are three things that are worth discussing.  The first is more complex - I added a section on goal/scope which is more-or-less what's in the current document.  Because there are discussions going on around those, under the heading PWP, I would think we should do it together.  With the only comment is that whatever is in the charter should be consistent with
17:14:56 <NickRuffilo> whatever is in the PWP document.  There are two other things that are comparitively simple.  One is a comment made by Leonard that I made a pull request for with changes.  There is a reference to DPUB ARIA 2.0 - the text that is still there officially says that dpub ARIA 2.0 would take over whatever is in DPUB, and put it in the same syntax.  This should not be the only source of possible terms
17:14:57 <NickRuffilo> .  There might be other vocabularies that we may want to use in the future, to make it more clear."
17:16:34 <NickRuffilo> ...: "I havent' merged it yet as we wasnt to make sure we have consensus.  I've looking to George/Charles if they are here, in the previous version there was no mention on possible additional work around WCAG.  I know we published a note on our additional features, but it's not clear to me where the additional work will happen.  I think it will happen in the relevant WCAG working group and not
17:16:34 <NickRuffilo> this one, but I added text to the charter that this group will participate in the work.  If you can review the place where WCAG has been added, please do.  It's a bit wishy-washy, so if you have any comments, please let me know."
17:16:47 <NickRuffilo> ...: "These are the three changes.  The goals should be discussed separately."
17:16:48 <Vagner_Br> Vagner_Br has joined #dpub
17:16:51 <garth> q?
17:17:08 <sel> sel has joined #dpub
17:17:25 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "The vast amount of additional text should be matching the PWP document, which was roled into the drafty-charter.  It seems to me that committing those and having this be the tip and continuing discussion off that.  Are you OK doing that if there are no objections here?"
17:17:35 <George> +q
17:17:43 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I will keep that up to date.  the PWP document should be stable and at an equilibrium point."
17:18:02 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "You are reticent to...  You have the new draft and scope.  Are you reticent to commit those and make them the active charter?"
17:18:24 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "It is already in the main branch.  The only thing I did not push in to the main branch are some of the changes I made related to the DPUB ARIA."
17:18:36 <ivan> ack George
17:18:37 <garth> q?
17:18:37 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "OK - i looked friday and didn't see those..  OK, thanks.  Any further discussion?"
17:19:14 <ivan> q+
17:19:35 <garth> ack ivan
17:19:36 <NickRuffilo> George: "Yes, we've been able to add to the WCAG 2.1 elements.  Digital publishing is in scope, which is great.  A reminder that accessibility has now been integrated horizontally across W3C groups.  Our working group moving forward should have an accessibility view to producing our recommendations."
17:20:26 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "To make it specific, what I did was to add an entry to the coordination section according to WCAG, to say that the WCAG group is responsible for their developments, but we should work together with them to help build."
17:21:08 <NickRuffilo> garth: "Next on the agenda, the Leonard & Nick show.  There have been some homework in making this cleaner.  Then feel free to head into the other discussion."
17:21:13 <garth> q?
17:21:30 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Vagner - our new member, has joined in IRC.  if you're on the call, please say hello"
17:21:42 <leonardr> PR for my proposed changes
17:21:43 <leonardr> https://github.com/w3c/dpub-pwp/pull/39/commits/055b7453e1442be11c25150234e98d947f19eaf6
17:22:23 <NickRuffilo> Leonard: "(Link posted to the pull request) I went through the entire document to understand it.  I had a bunch of other questions, but they are not things I've made changes to at this time.
17:22:58 <garth> Vagner:
17:23:00 <garth> JOIN WEBEX MEETING https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m67b1f4daec6afaa10a98310469cdd45c Meeting number (access code): 647 199 851 Meeting password: Please obtain your meeting password from your host.   JOIN FROM A VIDEO SYSTEM OR APPLICATION Dial sip:647199851@mit.webex.com   JOIN BY PHONE +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number
17:23:44 <NickRuffilo> Leonard: "One thing I've done is put an actual definition under the terms section - for locators.  So we explain what it is, and why it may not be just a simple URL.  "
17:23:53 <NickRuffilo> Garth: "It's a good elevator pitch for locators."
17:25:32 <NickRuffilo> Leonard: "There was a paragraph in Web Publications that talked about state independent locators, things we didn't finalize on, so I modified it to say that locators needed to be resolved regardless of the state of the PWP.  I removed references to locators that weren't necessary.  I tried to keep it very high level at this point.  I left in the reference - there's still one about hierarchy and
17:25:32 <NickRuffilo> state independence.  I left that there, although we can always take it out.  I wanted people to be aware there was a large issue that we didn't have a resolution on."
17:25:53 <garth> q?
17:26:07 <NickRuffilo> Leonard: "I wanted to change everything from PWP to WP.  Locators talk about all Web Publications, and not necessarily Packaged ones."
17:26:13 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
17:26:28 <dauwhe> leonardr: in terms of locators, that was the big piece of work
17:26:36 <garth> q?
17:26:36 <dauwhe> ... I left other changes for email discussionss
17:26:42 <dauwhe> ... any questions?
17:26:48 <garth> q?
17:26:49 <dauwhe> garth: thanks for the effort
17:27:04 <garth> q?
17:27:04 <ivan> q+
17:27:10 <dauwhe> ... the queue is empty. Is silence consent?
17:27:15 <garth> ack ivan
17:27:16 <dauwhe> ivan: one thing...
17:27:21 <dauwhe> ... I'm overall happy with changes
17:27:41 <dauwhe> ... it looks like you already made some changes in the introduction which are still in discussion
17:27:55 <dauwhe> ... it might be better to separate those issues
17:27:58 <dauwhe> leonardr: that's fine
17:28:08 <dauwhe> ... I'll put those back to "musts"
17:28:18 <dauwhe> ivan: I propose you merge the whole thing
17:28:22 <dauwhe> garth: that sounds good
17:28:39 <dauwhe> ... do we want to discuss the musts and shoulds now?
17:28:48 <HeatherF> fwiw, I prefer email
17:29:00 <dauwhe> ivan: there is one more thing... do you want to discuss the business group and CG charter here?
17:29:01 <HeatherF> Easier to track and think about it, and get more folks involved who couldn't be on the call
17:29:02 <dauwhe> garth: OK
17:29:23 <dauwhe> ... the last agenda item was another request to review BG and CG charter
17:29:29 <leonardr> q+
17:29:30 <dauwhe> ... assuming the merger completes this week
17:29:35 <dauwhe> ... the BG charter is very important
17:29:49 <dauwhe> ... since that group will have substantial input on WG charter
17:29:57 <dauwhe> ... the group could be kicked off next week
17:30:12 <dauwhe> ... and there could be a F2F meeting of BG on March 13
17:30:36 <dauwhe> ... but that's too late for substantive discussion of WG charter
17:30:45 <dauwhe> ... we need to nail down BG charter as soon as possible
17:31:13 <dauwhe> ... the in-person meeting would be before London Book Fair
17:31:40 <dauwhe> ... there were requests on the ML to review both charters
17:31:51 <George> +q
17:31:52 <dauwhe> ... comment in google docs or respond to the email thread
17:31:55 <garth> q?
17:31:57 <dauwhe> q+
17:32:08 <ivan> ack George
17:32:11 <garth> ack George
17:32:26 <dauwhe> George: the first thing the BG would do is complete the publishing business group charter and methods of working
17:32:32 <dauwhe> ... the draft as is is not fixed in stone
17:32:41 <dauwhe> ... we just want it to be sufficient for us to get started
17:32:49 <dauwhe> garth: the BG will be less technical
17:33:04 <dauwhe> ... this group continues to have responsibility for tech details of the BG charter
17:33:05 <garth> q?
17:33:09 <dauwhe> leonardr: since we're talking about dates
17:33:23 <dauwhe> ... do we want to start a discussion of a WG f2f?
17:33:38 <garth> ack leo
17:34:17 <dauwhe> garth: a F2F kickoff of DPUB WG makes sense
17:34:25 <dauwhe> ... I think it will be chartered in April
17:34:28 <ivan> q+
17:34:33 <dauwhe> ... Ivan thinks I'm optimistic
17:34:41 <dauwhe> ... so meeting would be late spring/early summer?
17:34:48 <dauwhe> ... do we have proposals for a location?
17:34:56 <dauwhe> ... we should certainly consider this
17:34:58 <garth> q?
17:35:02 <dauwhe> leonardr: I have a suggestion
17:35:15 <ivan> +1 NYC
17:35:19 <dauwhe> ... in NYC, 'cause Tzviya won't be able to travel
17:35:30 <dauwhe> ... Adobe has space in NYC and is willing to host
17:35:39 <ivan> q+
17:35:49 <dauwhe> garth: google also has space, but Adobe sounds good
17:36:02 <dauwhe> ... and the publishing community is centered there
17:36:12 <garth> ack da
17:36:32 <VST_Rick> q
17:36:47 <astearns> ack ivan
17:36:53 <dauwhe> ivan: we need to take into account a rule that we need 2 months notice for a F2F meeting
17:37:05 <dauwhe> ... if the WG really starts in April, then a F2F in NYC in June works
17:37:11 <VST_Rick> q+
17:37:23 <dauwhe> ... if we are in position of sending a charter for vote at end of February then that can work
17:37:32 <leonardr> proposes week of June 19th
17:37:44 <dauwhe> ... if not, if it goes to the AC later, we might be able to add to charter or announcement that we plan to have a f2f
17:37:50 <dauwhe> ... but we need to be careful
17:38:02 <dauwhe> ... 2 months is usually needed for people to plan
17:38:17 <dauwhe> ... in June, there is also the BEA meeting (actually end of May)
17:38:31 <dauwhe> ... would it be good to co-locate?
17:39:06 <dauwhe> garth: you mentioned June... is May too early? Before BEA?
17:39:20 <dauwhe> ... we couldn't announce before charter?
17:39:32 <leonardr> Week of May 29th is not good for Tzviya or myself (Jewish holiday that week)
17:39:34 <dauwhe> ivan: the clean thing is charter is done, ac votes, we start in april, then JUne is OK
17:39:43 <garth> q?
17:39:52 <dauwhe> ... however, having a F2F at TPAC is also very important
17:40:01 <dauwhe> ... we will have to sync with other WGs
17:40:08 <dauwhe> ... TPAC is Nov 6-10
17:40:12 <dauwhe> ... near SFO
17:40:21 <leonardr> Hyatt Regency SF
17:40:27 <garth> Perhaps before (or after) BEA makes sense (per Ivan and others)
17:40:35 <dauwhe> ... the question is, whether financially speaking we expect the WG to have 2 F2F during the year
17:40:40 <dauwhe> ... there may be problems with that
17:40:42 <leonardr> q+
17:40:52 <dauwhe> garth: travel-type expenses?
17:40:55 <dauwhe> ivan: yes, like me
17:41:33 <leonardr> thanks @dauwhe for the plug...
17:41:37 <dauwhe> garth: May/June then November is nice
17:41:51 <George> +q+q
17:42:08 <dauwhe> VST_Rick: many of us will be at BEA in NYC
17:42:21 <dauwhe> ... I would encourage doing something while we're there
17:42:26 <dauwhe> ... rather than the following week
17:42:27 <garth> q?
17:42:33 <garth> ack VS
17:42:34 <ivan> ack VST_Rick
17:42:43 <dauwhe> leonardr: BEA overlaps with a major Jewish holiday
17:42:48 <ivan> ack leonardr
17:42:57 <dauwhe> ... and the holiday is in the middle of the week
17:42:59 <ivan> ack sees
17:43:04 <ivan> q=
17:43:06 <dauwhe> ... week before or week after are fine
17:43:10 <garth> q?
17:43:13 <dauwhe> garth: we'll have some time to nail this down
17:43:20 <garth> ack +q
17:43:48 <dauwhe> George: one of the comments at DBW is that people want to participate remotely
17:44:02 <dauwhe> ... remote participation is highly desirable for a F2F
17:44:09 <dauwhe> ... I said I supported that
17:44:11 <leonardr> no problem - we have great AV at the site
17:44:24 <dauwhe> garth: that's one thing that gets easier if Google or Adobe or such hosts
17:44:40 <dauwhe> ... any more discussion of meetings?
17:44:57 <ivan> q+
17:44:58 <dauwhe> ... I like the idea of F2F in May/June, and one in November, that feels like we're moving quickly, which is good
17:45:11 <leonardr> @vagner - yes, that's the one
17:45:20 <dauwhe> ivan: one more thing... if we want the 1st of April for WG, then I need more comments on Charter!
17:45:27 <dauwhe> ... an issue a day :)
17:45:42 <dauwhe> ... the charter needs a lot of work before sending it to the AC
17:45:58 <garth> q?
17:45:59 <dauwhe> garth: and look at Ivan's updates from last week
17:46:04 <garth> ack ivan
17:47:49 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
17:47:49 <Zakim> Present: Leonard, ivan, George, Hadrien, dauwhe, Heather_Flanagan, Deborah_Kaplan, garth, Chris_Maden, NickRuffilo, Tim_Cole, rick, Bill_Kasdorf, Rick_Johnson, duga, astearns,
17:47:52 <Zakim> ... laudrain, Vlad
17:47:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see sel, Vagner_Br, laurentlemeur, laudrain, brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, VST_Rick, garth, TimCole, dkaplan3, HeatherF, George, cmaden2, leonardr, Zakim, RRSAgent, hadrien,
17:47:52 <Zakim> ... ivan, dauwhe, Bert, liam_, rego, plinss, iank_, ShaneM, JakeA, astearns, bigbluehat, trackbot
17:47:56 <dauwhe> dauwhe: I have some concerns about how the BG will operate in the context of the W3C process
17:48:00 <ivan> present+ Vagner_Br
17:48:25 <dauwhe> garth: something like "approving" specs from the CG, like EPUB 3.1.x
17:48:44 <dauwhe> ... the other unusual thing is input over chartering the WG
17:48:48 <dauwhe> ... and leadership
17:49:02 <dauwhe> ... but there would no special input on the output of the WG, that would be through normal w3c processes
17:49:20 <dauwhe> George: I think the BG would want to gather it's members and encourage review and comment on the WG
17:49:32 <dauwhe> ... and help and assist in getting proper review throughout the industry of the spec
17:49:39 <dauwhe> ... and I think that's in keeping with W3C process
17:49:49 <garth> q?
17:49:53 <dauwhe> ... getting wide review would be a big piece of what we do
17:50:11 <dauwhe> garth: was that helpful?
17:50:15 <dauwhe> dauwhe: yes
17:50:29 <dauwhe> ivan: the question is, is this really clear in the BG charter?
17:50:52 <dauwhe> dauwhe: I just want expectations to match what's in the charter
17:51:04 <garth> q?
17:51:35 <dauwhe> garth: it would be good to posit those to Karen/BillM
17:51:55 <dauwhe> George: if you could resend that comment I'd appreciate
17:52:00 <garth> q?
17:52:11 <dauwhe> garth: Alrighty then
17:53:01 <dauwhe> ... Ivan and I will meet Wednesday to work on the agenda,
17:53:11 <dauwhe> ... if you have ideas for agenda you can use the email list
17:53:18 <garth> q?
17:53:19 <dauwhe> q+
17:53:23 <leonardr> q+
17:53:33 <garth> q?
17:53:46 <ivan> ack dauwhe
17:54:07 <ivan> ack leonardr
17:54:13 <dauwhe> dauwhe: asking group for agenda items is a good thing
17:54:17 <ivan> q+
17:54:21 <dauwhe> leonardr: some of my email issues could be good agenda items
17:54:30 <garth> q?
17:54:36 <dauwhe> garth: if we don't resolve those issues on the list, we can add to agenda
17:54:53 <garth> q?
17:54:56 <garth> ack iv
17:54:58 <dauwhe> ivan: leonard, when we get more focused on the email, can you separate them into github issues
17:55:03 <garth> q?
17:55:03 <leonardr> +1 - will create issues!
17:55:24 <dauwhe> garth: there is still no one on the queue, so we get five minutes back. Have a good week!
17:55:30 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has left #dpub
17:55:33 <dauwhe> [bye]
17:55:37 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has left #dpub
17:55:47 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:55:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/23-dpub-minutes.html ivan
17:56:04 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
17:56:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:56:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Leonard, ivan, George, Hadrien, dauwhe, Heather_Flanagan, Deborah_Kaplan, garth, Chris_Maden, NickRuffilo, Tim_Cole, rick, Bill_Kasdorf,
17:56:07 <Zakim> ... Rick_Johnson, duga, astearns, laudrain, Vlad, Vagner_Br
17:56:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:56:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/23-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
17:56:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:56:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items