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15:12:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:12:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2666
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15:12:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
15:12:40 <trackbot> Date: 20 January 2017
15:13:21 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/062001d2729a$5104e110$f30ea330$@illinois.edu
15:13:21 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda call for 2017-01-20: http://www.w3.org/mid/062001d2729a$5104e110$f30ea330$@illinois.edu
15:13:27 <ivan> Chair: Tim
15:13:56 <ivan> Regrets: Dinesh
15:45:43 <ivan> Regrets+ Ben
15:55:36 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #annotation
15:56:37 <Jacob> Jacob has joined #annotation
15:56:54 <ivan> Present+ Ivan, TImCole, Jacob
15:57:46 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #annotation
15:59:00 <TimCole> Regrets+ TB Dinesh
15:59:18 <TimCole> Regrets+ Ben De Meester
16:02:55 <takeshi> takeshi has joined #annotation
16:04:08 <azaroth> scribenick: azaroth
16:04:26 <TimCole> Correct minutes url:
16:04:30 <TimCole> https://www.w3.org/2017/01/06-annotation-minutes.html
16:04:44 <azaroth> TOPIC: scribe selection, agenda review, announcements, approval
16:05:00 <azaroth> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Minutes of the previous call are approved: https://www.w3.org/2017/01/06-annotation-minutes.html
16:05:09 <azaroth> RESOLUTION: Minutes of the previous call are approved: https://www.w3.org/2017/01/06-annotation-minutes.html
16:05:20 <ivan> +1
16:05:21 <azaroth> TOPIC: Proposed Recommendations
16:05:48 <ivan> shane, spec ops should vote for the PR! :-)
16:06:10 <ShaneM> ivan: oh - sure.
16:06:30 <azaroth> TimCole: We're now in PR status, until Feb 14th
16:06:38 <azaroth> ivan: Everything went very smoothly, thanks to everyone
16:07:05 <azaroth> ... for PR we need to get some votes. We have 4 positive votes, plus one abstention
16:07:15 <azaroth> ... Need to get votes from the participants of the group
16:08:06 <azaroth> ... esp Illinois, Getty, etc
16:08:18 <azaroth> TimCole: Should we contact Los Alamos
16:08:26 <azaroth> ivan: LANL has already voted :)
16:09:25 <azaroth> ... Rob can ask Stanford, Ben can you ask your AC Rep?
16:09:36 <azaroth> ... Takeshi, how complicated to get to your AC rep?
16:09:45 <azaroth> takeshi: I have a meeting next week
16:10:08 <azaroth> ivan: Also we have hypothes.is vote in already. Who else was in the group and active?
16:10:40 <azaroth> Rob: Library of Congress -- I can email Ray
16:11:22 <azaroth> ivan: Paolo isn't there any more, but could ask Tim from Harvard
16:11:27 <azaroth> Rob: Will do
16:11:34 <azaroth> Ivan: I've asked my institute in Amsterdam
16:12:09 <azaroth> TimCole: Oxford and Edinburgh in the UK
16:12:32 <azaroth> ivan: Benjamin, do you still have the contact for MS?
16:12:44 <azaroth> ... any member can vote, and they were interested in Berlin
16:13:04 <azaroth> bigbluehat: Also talked to someone at WSDM, so will get in touch with them
16:13:31 <azaroth> ivan: Want to raise at publication IG, will take care of those folks
16:13:55 <azaroth> s/WSDM/Lisbon/
16:14:15 <azaroth> ivan: So with those, we have 10 or more which is fine. No problem unless someone objects, of course
16:15:00 <azaroth> ... something we discussed on the call was preparing for a larger blog announcement. One or both of the chairs should do it.
16:15:09 <azaroth> ... a one pager about what the specs do, why, and so on
16:15:16 <azaroth> TimCole: Are there any recent examples?
16:15:34 <azaroth> ivan: hmm ... I will have a look. I think CSV did something similar
16:16:00 <azaroth> ... everything for post TR has been set up
16:16:24 <azaroth> TimCole: How to handle the blog?
16:16:36 <azaroth> Rob: Come up with some bullets first between us, and then one of us drafts the text?
16:16:38 <azaroth> TimCole: OK
16:16:47 <azaroth> ... any other comments or questions about PR?
16:17:09 <azaroth> TOPIC: Selector/State Note
16:17:24 <azaroth> See: http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/selector-note/
16:17:47 <PaoloCiccarese> PaoloCiccarese has joined #annotation
16:17:50 <azaroth> TimCole: Already had three comments from Rob
16:18:49 <TimCole> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2017Jan/0015.html
16:19:10 <TimCole> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/pull/397
16:20:02 <azaroth> Rob: (summarises the three comments in the email above)
16:20:29 <ivan> Tim, Rob: https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/12/wai-aria-graphics-module-published/
16:20:45 <azaroth> Ivan: Agreed with the three suggestions, I edited the text and have a PR in which needs review
16:20:50 <azaroth> Rob: Will review after the call
16:21:08 <TimCole> http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/selector-note/
16:21:36 <azaroth> TimCole: Most recent version of the note doesn't have the fixes in, but are there any other concerns with the note?
16:23:22 <azaroth> TimCole: Paolo, are you in a position to ask MGH to vote?
16:23:27 <azaroth> Paolo: Yes, I'll do that
16:23:52 <azaroth> TimCole: If there's no comments or questions, what's the publication process for the note?
16:24:19 <azaroth> ivan: We should publish when we publish the recs, but it's good to have the decision so we can get the short name approved and so on
16:24:35 <azaroth> TimCole: An email call for consensus?
16:24:56 <azaroth> ivan: Yes, and recorded in 2 weeks. I can get everything ready by then. It's a simple document, so there shouldn't be any major issue
16:25:09 <azaroth> ... we can agree that pub date is with the recs
16:25:42 <azaroth> TimCole: Rob, why don't you do that after looking at the pull request?
16:25:51 <azaroth> ... we don't know publication date for the recs?
16:26:16 <azaroth> Ivan: The deadline is the 14th, but if there's no issues then it's very short. We then set a date that's okay with the webmaster.
16:26:31 <azaroth> ... there's no changes on the doc, so should be no problem with the checkers
16:26:34 <PaoloCiccarese> q+
16:27:02 <azaroth> TimCole: The recs don't reference the note, so still won't at TR. We'll need to update the references between them, and for the note
16:27:05 <azaroth> ack PaoloCiccarese
16:27:28 <azaroth> PaoloCiccarese: Short question ... wondering if any of the big players manifested any interest? Google, Apple?
16:27:36 <azaroth> ... in the work in general, the specs in particular
16:27:47 <azaroth> ivan: Had some interesting discussions with MS, but that was all.
16:28:01 <azaroth> ... they didn't join the group, but it was late in the process at that stage
16:28:49 <azaroth> ... publishers are interested, a different crowd.  Wiley is using it internally. Other EPub reader companies are interested
16:29:06 <azaroth> ... Bluefire, readium consortium is planning to implement it.
16:29:23 <azaroth> ... Rob, you're in the best position to get a vote from Europeana
16:29:27 <azaroth> Rob: I can do that
16:29:30 <TimCole> Topic: Other work to do before end of February?
16:30:01 <azaroth> TimCole: Hasn't been a post of the PR status to the CG. Might be players there that have AC reps that could vote
16:30:12 <azaroth> Rob: Sounds good to me
16:31:43 <azaroth> Paolo: Can we use the message for the members?
16:31:50 <azaroth> Ivan: Lets not forward it directly
16:32:05 <azaroth> Paolo: I'll write something and have Rob and Tim double check it
16:32:41 <azaroth> TimCole: That seems like a good set.  Is anyone involved in Dan's AAK group?
16:32:50 <azaroth> ivan: Yes, and Rob as well. There's a meeting on the 10th of Feb
16:33:33 <azaroth> ... I think most of the members there we will have already caught
16:33:40 <azaroth> TimCole: What else in terms of other work?
16:33:44 <azaroth> ivan: The HTML note?
16:33:51 <azaroth> TimCole: Not sure we have time to go through it?
16:34:32 <azaroth> ... I could put something up next week.
16:34:34 <azaroth> http://www.idpf.org/epub/oa/
16:34:57 <azaroth> TimCole: As epub is based on HTML, could be something to think about?
16:35:14 <azaroth> ivan: A bit unclear as IDPF and W3C are considering merging ... lots of discussions still
16:35:35 <azaroth> ... idea is that there will be a separate group to maintain the Epub 3 documents, not official w3c docs
16:35:45 <azaroth> ... no idea where the annotation part would fit into that
16:36:00 <azaroth> TimCole: Was thinking from a technical sense, don't want to say something that contradicts what was learnt in the process
16:36:26 <azaroth> ivan: Lets see what there is, and we can finesse if there's enough by the time we need it
16:37:01 <azaroth> TimCole: Talked about HTML serialization -- RDFA implementation, embedding the JSON-LD, and use cases that we looked at along the lines of wanting the annotation to travel with the HTML that it annotates
16:37:12 <azaroth> ivan: So in this case epub is a good example indeed
16:37:19 <azaroth> ... I don't know how it was used in practice if at all
16:37:41 <azaroth> TimCole: it was at least talked about. That was the use case to talk about in the note, rather than more exotic ones
16:37:56 <azaroth> ivan: does wiley have any use cases in scholarly publishing?
16:38:10 <azaroth> bigbluehat: our focus now is about editorial workflows
16:38:38 <azaroth> ... would want the option to publish the editorial annotations with the document, but not necessarily mixed into the document structure or an island of JSON-LD at the top
16:38:58 <azaroth> ... just dump the annotations into the document.  A layer to turn off or on, RDFA is kind of always there
16:39:18 <azaroth> ... the more likely case for RDFA or similar would be at publication time ... non editorial annos, such as footnotes
16:39:33 <azaroth> ... not sure if we'd switch to that over <cite>
16:39:44 <azaroth> ... maybe for transclusion across documents
16:40:02 <azaroth> ivan: there's a use case there, which is all we're looking for
16:40:12 <csarven> editorial time: https://dokie.li/#figure-dokieli-citation (screencast 42seconds)
16:40:24 <azaroth> ... question is if we can refer to Wiley or not
16:40:34 <azaroth> bigbluehat: I think you can
16:41:13 <azaroth> ... Wiley Information Model is based on web annotations, amongst others.  As we move towards web first process, these things take shape in augmenting content
16:41:22 <azaroth> ... would want the option to embed
16:41:40 <azaroth> TimCole: the purpose of the note to me is a marker for experimentation and future work
16:41:52 <azaroth> ... points out the options and says that there needs to be more work
16:42:06 <azaroth> bigbluehat: Would want to see it pursued
16:42:19 <azaroth> ... JSON-LD doesn't have a dom level marker, which is useful
16:44:56 <TimCole> q?
16:45:08 <azaroth> TimCole: Anything else about the serialization note?
16:45:41 <azaroth> ... github and wiki transitioning to the CG ... will be maintained by us?
16:45:51 <azaroth> ivan: the w3c wiki will be frozen, but we didn't use it much
16:46:05 <azaroth> TimCole: Does the CG have a wiki?
16:46:14 <azaroth> Rob, Paolo: Yes ... but we didn't use it much
16:46:25 <azaroth> TimCole: And remind me of the errata set up?
16:46:42 <azaroth> ivan: It's up, and automatically bound by an API and a small script to the issue list
16:47:04 <azaroth> ... it's tied to the github, used the mechanism in another WG so quick to adapt it
16:47:17 <azaroth> TimCole: We do need to move the annotation tests over to the main GH
16:47:38 <azaroth> ... to simplify management. Need to verify with shane that it doesn't need to still be tied to his site
16:47:55 <ivan> Errata page: https://www.w3.org/annotation/errata/
16:48:11 <azaroth> Ivan: there's a description at the page of what has to be done
16:48:24 <ivan> example in working: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/errata/
16:48:27 <azaroth> ... as an example, ^^
16:48:43 <azaroth> ... there are a few errata already. That's how it will evolve for our documents as well
16:49:26 <azaroth> TimCole: Next question when we meet next?  Could meet next friday if there's progress on the html note, otherwise 3rd of Feb
16:49:39 <azaroth> ivan: If you think there's enough to discuss next week, happy to do that
16:49:50 <azaroth> TimCole: Okay lets hold next week for the HTML note
16:50:01 <azaroth> ... any other business?
16:50:19 <azaroth> PaoloCiccarese: Sent an email to Tim, and a draft for the CG
16:50:29 <azaroth> Tim, Rob: Thanks Paolo!
16:50:44 <azaroth> bigbluehat: Apache annotator is officially incubating
16:51:00 <azaroth> ... it's mostly tilgovi and I or people that worked on annotator.js
16:51:13 <azaroth> ... if there's any interest, would be good to have people sign up
16:51:49 <azaroth> Rob: just client, or also server code?
16:51:55 <TimCole> http://annotator.apache.org/
16:52:04 <azaroth> bigbluehat: Wide open, it's up to the people who show up
16:52:18 <ivan> q+
16:52:42 <azaroth> ... currently looking at tilgovi's code to produce good web annotation docs
16:52:50 <azaroth> ... highly collaborative
16:52:56 <azaroth> ack ivan
16:53:16 <azaroth> ivan: One thing on that, I have an early skeleton for the server side to look at the protocol based on mongo
16:53:22 <azaroth> ... a way to understand what's happening
16:53:33 <azaroth> ... in python, not JS
16:53:51 <azaroth> ... haven't touched it for several months, but if interested can give the code. Not great quality.
16:54:05 <azaroth> ... just ping me and I can send it
16:54:23 <azaroth> bigbluehat: the apache repos are git based, so happy to take a look at it
16:54:34 <azaroth> ivan: Don't have the time to do anything with it in the future
16:54:44 <azaroth> ... for that crowd maybe it should be in node.js?
16:55:03 <azaroth> bigbluehat: Apache is agnostic, up to us. My hope is we have a few implementations that have similar internal APIs
16:55:19 <azaroth> ... don't need to declare that JS is the only way to do it
16:56:12 <azaroth> TimCole: Actions ...  Rob will do review and merge PR, then CFC, contact lots of people
16:56:40 <azaroth> ... I'll check with Stephen about the UK contacts
16:56:52 <azaroth> TimCole: Adjourn
16:57:03 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/20-annotation-minutes.html ivan
16:57:26 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:57:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:57:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Ivan, TImCole, Jacob
16:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:57:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/20-annotation-minutes.html trackbot
16:57:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:57:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items