17:58:33 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:58:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-irc 17:58:35 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:58:35 JasonD has joined #aria 17:58:35 Zakim has joined #aria 17:58:36 chair: Rich 17:58:37 Zakim, this will be 17:58:37 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 17:58:38 Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference 17:58:38 Date: 19 January 2017 17:58:38 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria 17:58:41 RRSAgent, make log public 17:59:35 jongund has joined #aria 18:00:20 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html 18:00:58 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 18:02:28 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html 18:02:32 jamesn has joined #aria 18:03:13 present+ 18:03:17 present+ Jason_Duan 18:03:24 present+ Janina 18:03:32 present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger 18:03:42 present+ MCK 18:04:31 present+ jongund 18:06:03 clown has joined #aria 18:07:23 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html 18:08:22 mck has joined #aria 18:09:41 scribe: matt_king 18:09:46 present+ JamesNurthen 18:09:48 scribeNick: mck 18:10:18 TOPIC: Testable statements and test file 18:10:27 rs: we need more people helping 18:10:40 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application 18:10:45 present+ 18:11:02 rs: this allows us to test more than one element 18:11:17 present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer 18:11:33 scribe: Janina 18:11:43 mk: Asking sample table of what, exactly? 18:12:33 bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria 18:12:38 Example 2 of these docs has an example of the wiki format: https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html#teststatements 18:12:50 mk: So, a syntax for textable statements? 18:12:54 rs: yes 18:12:56 q+ to ask why does the active descendant ("bob") have a tabindex="0" 18:13:03 present+ Bryan_Garaventa 18:13:15 s/have a tabindex/has a tabindex/ 18:15:18 JF has joined #aria 18:15:20 joanie: for method calls, you want to use result. 18:15:30 Rich, you and I need to talk 18:16:19 https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html 18:16:53 Joanie: link I pasted is a document I am editing. 18:17:14 Joanie: The biggest part of the automated testing is the infra to do it. 18:17:47 Joanie: all the infra for doing the tests is described in the first link I pated in. 18:18:05 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements 18:18:11 Joanie: the roadblock to entry is the complexity of the syntax for testable statements. 18:19:05 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Overview 18:19:43 RESULT then an expression or method call (e.g., Selection.clear_selection()) 18:20:37 Joanie: looking at Rich's testable statement contributions, sees some problems. Happy to fix them. 18:21:26 rs: Do not see any atk methods in the things I wrote. 18:21:39 Value.atk_value_get_minimum_value 18:21:54 Joanie: maybe from someone else. In the value interface, for instance, I see some mistakes. 18:22:28 Value.get_minimum_value() 18:23:18 rs: The important thing is that we have documentation how to do this. 18:23:20 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application 18:23:55 rs: Not sure wht to do with UIA. In mapping, we do not say which interface is using a property. 18:24:08 We need to indicate the interface 18:24:14 Jospeh: will open issue 18:24:47 rs: Same people are doing all the work like in aria 1.0. We need more people engaged. 18:25:26 jg: are all the testable statement in this one wiki page? 18:25:35 rs: yes. 18:25:50 jg: And these are only for what is new in 1.1? 18:25:55 rs: yes. 18:26:00 q+ 18:26:08 Joseph: we didn't test UIA in 1.0. 18:26:25 Rich, I had offered 2 volunteers a year ago. ONe has subsequently left Deque, but was there ever any outreach to the other volunteer? 18:26:32 q- 18:26:39 rs: yes. So, UIA may need more testable statements for 1.1. But, we do not need them for 1.1 cr. 18:27:00 q+ to ask for volunteers to compare https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes with the statements page 18:27:32 rs: Is there another report that goes out after 1.1 that says how well the spec is supported. 18:28:05 q? 18:28:10 MC: not part of the process, but it is a useful thing to do. 18:28:11 ack clown 18:28:11 clown, you wanted to ask why does the active descendant ("bob") have a tabindex="0" 18:28:36 Joseph: Noticed in application example, activedescendant bob has tabindex 0. 18:28:52 rs: good point. 18:30:23 mk: Only available for ATK now? 18:30:24 rs: yes 18:30:33 mk: Someone at Ms working on it 18:30:35 Q+ 18:31:21 joania: Believe Matt is asking about ATTA 18:31:48 mk: Allows test to be run against a specific aapi? 18:31:51 joanie: Yes 18:32:19 joania [explains the logic train in ATTA] 18:32:22 mk: Which platforms do we have ATTA for? 18:32:36 joanie: Everything AT does except user presentation 18:32:37 rs: only ATK now. UIA in the works. 18:33:07 q? 18:33:11 ack me 18:33:11 joanie, you wanted to ask for volunteers to compare https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes with the statements page 18:33:14 ack joanie 18:33:19 rs: Who else can help write test statements? 18:34:13 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Overview 18:35:42 Q? 18:35:54 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements 18:36:43 https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#changelog 18:37:24 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes 18:37:28 Joanie: We need to make sure that our scope of testable statements is complete. 18:37:58 We need help compaing 1.0 and 1.1 to make sure we have all the changes covered. 18:38:46 Joanie: need to compare all 1.0 UA normative statements with all 1.1 UA normative statements. 18:38:53 q? 18:38:57 ack JF 18:39:08 action: cooper to make sure the content at https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements fully covers the changes indicated at https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes 18:39:08 Created ACTION-2133 - Make sure the content at https://www.w3.org/wiki/aria_1.1_testable_statements fully covers the changes indicated at https://www.w3.org/wai/aria/wiki/aria_1.1_changes [on Michael Cooper - due 2017-01-26]. 18:39:41 jf: A year ago I brought forward some volunteers from our India team. Not sure what happened there. 18:39:56 jf: Not sure there was adequate outreach and management support. 18:40:06 rs: not sure there were adequate skills. 18:40:27 jf: is there a specialized skill set for writing a testable statement? 18:40:35 Joanie: let me pull up an example. 18:40:37 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Example 18:40:57 jf: Seem there will be a bit of a cadence and that there is a pattern to them. 18:41:07 Joanie: dead simple example is what I just pasted in 18:41:08 https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html 18:41:44 Joanie: being fmailiar with the a11y apis is necessary. 18:42:03 jf: What do you need them to write? 18:42:13 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application 18:42:22 Joanie: the html, but based on what is in the spec. 18:43:33 jf: let me see if I can find some candidates. 18:43:54 Unfortunately, I can not manage them. 18:44:14 Joanie: we need people who can work independntly 18:44:30 we don't have cycles to manage/teach 18:45:13 jf: At the start, even SMEs may need some mentoring. 18:47:51 rs: Once we have the ATTA fully vetted and have the 1.1 test done, one place your team could help might be to fill in the gap of getting everything from 1.0 testable as well. 18:49:45 mk: Not speaking up for this because aleady overcommitted to get AAPG out on the same timeframe 18:50:18 jg: I hired a new student yesterday to help with the IA2 ATTA 18:52:14 rs: Have your sutdents worked with comm interface 18:52:32 jg: It's has been years; it is rare skill today. 18:52:38 s/with comm interface/with COM interface/ 18:52:54 jg: If we need more help with this, I coudl redirect more of my students in this direction. 18:53:19 jg: do you want new people working on this same wiki page? 18:53:30 Or, do you need a gatekeepr? 18:53:36 \rs: that would be a good idea. 18:54:48 Joanie: Idea of putting the statements on the wiki was to lower barrier to entry. 18:55:19 side effect is that Shane has to interpret the mediawiki code into statements. 18:55:55 if you have students who can write code, it would be better for them to write the test files instead of in the wiki. 18:56:12 jg: if not in the wiki, how do we know which ones are done? 18:56:40 mcK: Isn't the reviewer function one of the prime reasons for using a wiki? 18:56:47 joanie: Believe files are easire to read 18:57:59 Joanie: recommending that we start using a git repo instead of the wiki page. 18:58:23 https://github.com/Spec-Ops/web-platform-tests/tree/aria-atta-support/wai-aria/aria11 18:58:24 jg: It started on the wiki because that is what Fred was doing. 18:58:37 then Shane wrote code to do interpretation. 18:58:51 rs: Joanie, do you want us to stop working on the wiki? 18:59:01 Joanie, we need consensus on this? 18:59:49 jg: We do have anissue of using a git repo in terms of push access for wide varieyt of contributors. 19:00:10 mck: Question to Jon: Is it a big deal to clone and work off the clone? 19:00:54 mk: There isn't really an access issue if using git is there? Anyone can clone in w3c repo. 19:01:09 jg: What repo are the test files in? 19:01:51 MC: Evenutally will go to web platform test repo. 19:02:18 But, we wanted to get it figured out before we commited anything there. Need to coordinate with Shane. 19:03:56 rs: Joanie, what is your recommendation for how to do this? 19:04:03 I want to knwo what is best. 19:04:48 Joanie: My recommendation is not a technical one. I want to do whatever works best for others. Eventually, we will get it translated. 19:05:16 s/I want to do/I enourage you all to do/ 19:05:29 rs: Jon, just do it on any wiki. 19:06:34 rs: As long a it looks like what we have, we will make it work. 19:07:12 rs: Mid feb, I will be out of pocket for 3 to 4 weeks. 19:08:32 jg: OK, I will move my resource to testing for now and away from authroing practice. 19:09:45 rrsagent, make minutes 19:09:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-minutes.html mck 19:10:01 https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#article 19:30:17 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region 19:34:31 zakim, who's here? 19:34:31 Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, Jason_Duan, Janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MCK, jongund, JamesNurthen, MichielBijl, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa 19:34:34 On IRC I see clown, Zakim, RRSAgent, yatil, MichaelC, JonathanNeal_, janina, joanie, Josh_Soref, MichielBijl, timeless, slightlyoff, AmeliaBR, ShaneM, trackbot 19:34:49 Ahoy 19:37:03 https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/64 19:38:05 https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/64#issuecomment-273552676 19:53:13 Rich has joined #aria 19:53:25 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria 19:54:16 zakim, bye 19:54:16 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, Jason_Duan, Janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, MCK, jongund, JamesNurthen, MichielBijl, Joseph_Scheuhammer, 19:54:16 Zakim has left #aria 19:54:19 ... Bryan_Garaventa 19:54:37 rrsagent, bye 19:54:37 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-actions.rdf : 19:54:37 ACTION: cooper to make sure the content at https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements fully covers the changes indicated at https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes [1] 19:54:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-irc#T18-39-08