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15:56:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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15:56:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
15:56:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:56:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
15:56:14 <trackbot> Date: 18 January 2017
15:56:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
15:58:16 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
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15:59:36 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
15:59:51 <ClemensPortele> present+ ClemensPortele
16:00:53 <jtandy> present+ ChrisLittle
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16:02:21 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
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16:04:12 <jtandy> regrets+ ed bill phil scott
16:04:17 <LarsG> present+ LarsG
16:04:39 <Linda> present+ Linda
16:04:44 <Linda> regrets+ Josh
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16:06:29 <jtandy> agenda https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20170118
16:06:44 <ChrisLittle_> Present+ ChrisLittle_
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16:07:01 <Payam_> present+ Payam
16:07:10 <Payam_> I can scribe now
16:07:23 <ClemensPortele> jtandy: Probably no point in approving last meeting minutes from November 09
16:07:31 <ClemensPortele> (No objections)
16:07:39 <AndreaPerego> Same here.
16:07:46 <jtandy> topic: Discuss progress based on the Sprint Plan
16:07:56 <Payam_> Topic: Discussing the progress
16:08:08 <AndreaPerego> Patent call: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
16:09:02 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document
16:09:10 <Payam_> discussing the sprint progress
16:09:23 <jtandy> Action 242: Restructure the document to move the summary to the top and remove the template.
16:09:23 <trackbot> Error finding '242'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
16:09:44 <Payam_> Linda: this action is closed.
16:10:06 <Payam_> action 232, 234: related to BP4
16:10:07 <trackbot> Error finding '232,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
16:11:30 <Payam_> ClemensPortele: most of the work is done; this is related to making the data indexable and searchable. ClemensPortele is working on adding examples from scheme.org
16:11:45 <Payam_> updates will be added this week
16:11:50 <AndreaPerego> s/scheme.org/schema.org/
16:12:45 <Payam_> jtandy: making the data indexable refers to create human readable pages and also improve the ranking of the pages - by using schema.org- and also by using the way that the crawlers work.
16:13:00 <Payam_> +q
16:13:55 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : providing HTML pages from datasets; and providing metadata and structured data for the datasets
16:14:32 <Payam_> ClemensPortele: there are other related matters; e.g. spatial data have identifiers that will be included
16:15:04 <Payam_> jtandy : we also discussed including links in the HTML pages and multiple formats
16:15:13 <ChrisLittle_> Q+
16:15:22 <Payam_> ack Payam_
16:16:09 <Payam_> ClemensPortele each dataset will have a landing (HTML) page.
16:16:22 <Payam_> +q
16:16:41 <jtandy> q+
16:18:21 <AndreaPerego> q+
16:18:36 <AndreaPerego> q-
16:19:30 <Payam_> Payam_  machine triggered search and metadata should be also considered.
16:20:03 <jtandy> ack ChrisLittle_
16:20:31 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : schema.org metadata is way to address this; this Best practice BP4 is mainly for search engines and HTML should be the key landing point
16:21:05 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : to make this work, you need to provide some indication of the structure of the data
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16:21:12 <ClemensPortele> https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/intro-structured-data
16:21:37 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : if you provide your data structured data based on scheme.org  (link above)
16:21:52 <AndreaPerego> s/scheme.org/schema.org/
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16:22:28 <AndreaPerego> q+
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16:22:54 <Payam_> if we have a webpage about a building this will also include information such as location (in structured form) that machines can extract
16:23:29 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : is concerned with big data and how you get to that structure once you have very large datasets
16:24:17 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : we may need to add some explanation to clarify how the proposed best practices should be scaled to big data
16:24:37 <jtandy> ack Payam_
16:24:47 <jtandy> ack jtandy
16:24:55 <Payam_> jtandy : data on the web best practice has a best practice related to this
16:25:30 <Payam_> jtandy : difference between dataset and distribution: will this be also part of the BP4?
16:25:44 <jtandy> ack AndreaPerego
16:25:46 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : no; maybe this is related to a different BP
16:27:04 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : the current BP description focuses on optimising the publication for human users and at the same optimising the metadata related to the datasets; this won't exclude providing the data in other formats
16:27:42 <AndreaPerego> Schema.org 4 Datasets: https://www.w3.org/community/schemaorg4datasets/
16:27:51 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : we should provide the data in both machine readable and human readable format (from data on the web best practices)
16:28:33 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : we should also consider including requirements that are not currently addressed by schema.org
16:28:33 <jtandy> q?
16:28:54 <Payam_> Next item: Re-writing Section 7
16:29:19 <Payam_> Ed has provided some new text and Linda has merged it - editor's draft
16:29:38 <ChrisLittle_> Q+
16:29:46 <Payam_> jtandy encouraging everyone to read and comment on this section
16:30:14 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ: talks about BP3
16:30:39 <jtandy> q+ jtandy to note that BP order will be dealt with in a later iteration
16:31:46 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ : more that CRS was about the data that affects that- ByronCinNZ has updated this. will do an accuracy check and will make the updates visible soon.
16:31:57 <Payam_> s/that/than
16:32:36 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ : asking if we have discussed accuracy and precision in the text
16:32:46 <Linda> q+
16:33:07 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ : is substantially re-written this BP and has provided some examples
16:33:16 <Payam_> s/is/has
16:34:08 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ : was this the right direction? is bringing data discussion beyond the scope of this group?
16:34:44 <jtandy> q?
16:34:46 <Payam_> jtandy : one of the editors can review and decide how to integrate the updates
16:35:02 <Payam_> s/decide how/decide on how
16:35:27 <Payam_> ack ChrisLittle_
16:35:56 <jtandy> [amendment: suggest that @ByronCinNZ submits a PR for the WG to review in the ED; editors will process the PR]
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16:36:10 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : discusses the importance of having a statement on accuracy and precision:
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16:37:21 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : discusses  user or customer oriented CRS; e.g. near to me; this can be future work; lots of work related to this are ad-hoc
16:37:54 <jtandy> ack jtandy
16:37:54 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to note that BP order will be dealt with in a later iteration
16:38:09 <Payam_> jtandy : BP9 will clarify that there is lack of practice in reltaion to user or customer oriented CRS
16:38:27 <Payam_> ByronCinNZ : a diagram will be helpful to be included
16:38:48 <Payam_> jtandy : we should make sure there is no IP issues for the diagram/figure-
16:39:24 <jtandy> q?
16:39:28 <jtandy> ack Linda
16:39:34 <Payam_> jtandy : swapping the order of the BPs- there is a action and this will be done in (near) future
16:39:53 <Linda> NOTE
16:39:53 <Linda> It is important to understand the difference between precision and accuracy. Seven decimal places of a latitude degree corresponds to about one centimeter. Whatever the precision of the specified coordinates, the accuracy of positioning on the actual earth's surface using WGS84 will only approach about a meter horizontally and may have apparent errors of up to 100 meters vertically, because of assumptions about reference systems, tectonic plate movements and whic
16:39:53 <Linda> h definition of the earth's 'surface' is used.
16:40:04 <Payam_> Linda : there is a note in BP5 on precision and accuracy (text above)
16:40:31 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:40:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:40:42 <AndreaPerego> s/reltaion/relation/
16:40:53 <Payam_> Next items BP14 and BP17 (Jeremy)
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16:41:11 <Linda> s/BP17/BP7
16:41:22 <AndreaPerego> chair: jtandy
16:41:26 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:41:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:41:38 <Payam_> jtandy is working on them- he needs contributions form BartvanLeeuwen \
16:42:07 <Payam_> BartvanLeeuwen : discusses his updates
16:43:06 <Payam_> BartvanLeeuwen : will provide some updates for BP7
16:43:23 <jtandy> q?
16:43:33 <ChrisLittle_> S/form/from/
16:43:42 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : BP8 and Geometry work
16:44:08 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : you seem to be muted
16:45:01 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : please try to reconnect
16:46:10 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : BP8 and Geometry work
16:47:03 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : BP8: we are not making any strong recommendations; we give a number of options but not strong recommendations
16:47:28 <jtandy> see AndreaPerego's email here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Jan/0081.html
16:47:32 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : is this sufficient or should we provide more detailed recommendations and examples
16:48:33 <jtandy> ack jtandy to ask about using GML for geometry
16:48:43 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : preferred geometry representations; limitations of the current methods and other methods such as geo-sparql
16:48:49 <jtandy> q+ to ask about using GML for geometry
16:49:07 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : seems the group is undecided about the encodings
16:49:31 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : the 2nd part is on how to publish geometry on the web
16:49:33 <LarsG> s/ack jtandy to ask about using GML for geometry//
16:49:46 <ClemensPortele> q+ to talk about GML, too
16:50:19 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : wether you publish the geometry associated with the spatial thing or separately
16:50:37 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : we have examples for each of these cases
16:50:59 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : we have to define and clarify the use-case to make this more practical
16:51:41 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : how to make the geometry re-usable (but geometry could have different levels of granularity and accuracy)
16:52:11 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : however, authoritative geometry is fixed and this should be one of the use-cases
16:52:39 <Payam_> and we need to clarify depending what a user wants to do, s/he can select one of the approaches
16:53:53 <Payam_> we also need to provide guidance on the requirements and the representations and what should be included in them; eg. some only provide geometry in RDF; but some others also provide information about serialisation;
16:54:28 <Payam_> we seem to be a bit unclear about providing guidance about how to provide the geometry
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16:54:45 <jtandy> q?
16:55:04 <Payam_> jtandy we haven't make any conclusions yet; but AndreaPerego discussions will help to provide some clarity on this topic.
16:55:44 <Payam_> jtandy : referring to the a case that RDF is separated from RDF; due to efficiency issues
16:56:04 <ChrisLittle_> Q+
16:56:16 <Payam_> jtandy balancing the performance against what trying to achieve is also important
16:57:35 <Payam_> AndreaPerego :  If data is to large to be included in RDF, you can keep this out but provide link (via RDF) where the serialisation of the data is available
16:57:45 <jtandy> ack jtandy
16:57:45 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask about using GML for geometry
16:57:52 <jtandy> ack ClemensPortele
16:57:52 <Zakim> ClemensPortele, you wanted to talk about GML, too
16:58:18 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : talks about GML
16:58:23 <jtandy> [GML is not webby? ... I think that there are javascript libraries that can parse GML]
16:58:40 <jtandy> [GML is also pretty much our only option for 3D data]
16:58:48 <Payam_> ClemensPortele is someone working in an XML environment, GML will be the choice
16:58:58 <jtandy> q?
16:59:01 <Payam_> s/is/if
16:59:27 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : there are other cases that GML is a better choice;
16:59:46 <Linda> jtandy andrea can you include me friday? i can share experiences from testbed regarding geometries inside/outside triple stores & performance
17:00:02 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : we should provide guidance on the choices and criteria for these
17:00:55 <jtandy> ClemensPortele: GML is our only option for describing solids at present (3D)
17:01:07 <jtandy> q?
17:01:36 <Payam_> AndreaPerego : talks about GML and issues that it can address - we shouldn't be restrictive; people should be able to publish in their own format; but we should give them a (set of) recommended format(s)
17:02:07 <Payam_> ClemensPortele : will continue the discussion in the mailing group.
17:02:10 <Payam_> ack ChrisLittle_
17:02:39 <Payam_> ChrisLittle_ : not being webby probably refers to not being suitable for triple store
17:02:44 <jtandy> q?
17:03:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx guys
17:03:14 <Linda> bye
17:03:15 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
17:03:15 <ChrisLittle_> Bye
17:03:16 <Payam_> bye
17:03:20 <ClemensPortele> bye, thanks!
17:03:59 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/18-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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