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15:28:32 <patrick_h_lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:28:45 <patrick_h_lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:29:08 <patrick_h_lauke> Scribe: patrick_h_lauke
15:29:18 <patrick_h_lauke> present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:40:56 <kats-interview> kats-interview has left #pointerevents
15:59:34 <teddink> teddink has joined #pointerevents
16:01:29 <patrick_h_lauke> present+ teddink
16:01:42 <patrick_h_lauke> currently only person on call :)
16:02:06 <rbyers> present+ rbyers
16:02:19 <rbyers> we are dialing in now
16:02:49 <mustaq> present+ mustaq
16:02:58 <NavidZ> present + NavidZ
16:03:24 <dtapuska> present+ dtapuska
16:03:28 <patrick_h_lauke> guessing this will be a fairly short call...
16:03:31 <patrick_h_lauke> (famous last words)
16:03:56 <patrick_h_lauke> Regrets: Olli Pettay
16:04:50 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: not sure if PLH is going to join us, but I gather he's now the new staff contact since Doug left W3C
16:05:33 <patrick_h_lauke> Topic: "Specify that "click", "dblclick" and "contextmenu" events are  PointerEvents" https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/100
16:06:27 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: open question on Ted for a while. Microsoft has changed click to be PE in edge, but Olli raised concerns
16:06:52 <patrick_h_lauke> I understand Edge made click a pointer event but truncates some of the properties that are not PE
16:07:14 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: i think you're correct. still trying to get hard confirmation from the team
16:07:59 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: if you have specific use case/site that relies on that. Olli seems to question if it's worth regarding complexity, and there may be politics involved as well, but it would be good to see use case/site that shows the rationale. not so worried about complexity if it makes sense
16:08:08 <patrick_h_lauke> I'll just add note to issue
16:09:13 <patrick_h_lauke> Navid (?): why just click?
16:09:43 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: we initially did this to get it working in an internal framework challenge. Not sure about which framework, and not sure if it's still necessary
16:10:54 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: more fundamental question then is to know WHY we'd want click to be a pointer event. Click is going to be around forever. Changing it from mouse to PE was likely due to fractional coordinates. Having fractional coords in the mouse event would guarantee things that break
16:11:06 <patrick_h_lauke> so i can understand rationale for changing to pointer event
16:11:27 <patrick_h_lauke> it's more question of "do we need to make click a pointer event". is it worth the cost?
16:11:53 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: adding pointer events to UI events spec?
16:12:20 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: do we only fire click for primary? or for all?
16:12:28 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: would need to check
16:12:51 <patrick_h_lauke> Navid (?): only primary sends MOUSE compat events, but not sure about click
16:13:13 <mustaq> s/Navid (?)/mustaq/
16:13:42 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: i have vague memory of having tested this, and all fingers (even non-primary) fire click
16:14:27 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: Ted, worth asking: unless we find pressing use case, maybe something we keep as low priority issue, not v2-blocking. then we can ask if Edge could undo that change / understand what implications are if Edge changed click back to mouse event rather than pointer event
16:15:32 <patrick_h_lauke> ACTION: Ted to check with team, find use case/rationale for Edge behavior
16:15:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-156 - Check with team, find use case/rationale for edge behavior [on Ted Dinklocker - due 2017-01-18].
16:15:49 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: we talked about click, what about dblclick and contextmenu?
16:16:00 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: we should do same for all of them. they're all PE in Edge, right?
16:16:19 <rbyers> Updated issue: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/100#issuecomment-271912847
16:16:35 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: do we know for a fact they are also PE? I can test and report finding on GH issue
16:17:21 <patrick_h_lauke> Topic: (from Rick) The other thing that would be useful I think is to try to review the test status
16:17:39 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: based on tip of tree, are we failing any tests in blink?
16:18:14 <patrick_h_lauke> mustaq: (mentions one particular failure)
16:18:27 <mustaq> Navid: chrome is failing pen leave tests.
16:18:58 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: high level: currently blink passing all tests. one or two minor issues. maybe we can commit to sending summary of remaining failures on list in next week? we should have a chrome or blink bug for each failure
16:19:20 <rbyers> ACTION: Navid to send current Chrome test result details to public-pointer-events with a chrome or spec bug link for each outstanding failure.
16:19:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Send current chrome test result details to public-pointer-events with a chrome or spec bug link for each outstanding failure. [on Navid Zolghadr - due 2017-01-18].
16:19:30 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: while you're at it create similar action for me for Edge
16:19:47 <patrick_h_lauke> ACTION: Ted to send current Edge test result details to list
16:19:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-158 - Send current edge test result details to list [on Ted Dinklocker - due 2017-01-18].
16:20:08 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: there should already be an outstanding action for you Ted from few months ago ;)
16:20:36 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: we also got results from stone
16:20:57 <rbyers> ACTION: Ted to send current test results for Edge to public-pointer-events with bug links for any outstanding failures.
16:20:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Send current test results for edge to public-pointer-events with bug links for any outstanding failures. [on Ted Dinklocker - due 2017-01-18].
16:21:44 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: double action on Ted, to show how we REALLY like the results
16:21:54 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: stone sent us an email ...
16:22:08 <rbyers> Stone said the following were the only failures on Firefox currently:
16:22:18 <rbyers> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TcqvkTre/
16:23:06 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: passing most of the tests. If Edge isn't failing any of these 6 (but suspect Edge may be as these are recent changes) we can go to CR
16:23:27 <patrick_h_lauke> Mustaq: what about twist, where we fail too?
16:24:02 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: we're likely to get these approved and shipped soon, so we should wait and see. if that's last thing that keeps us from CR, we can rip that out
16:24:40 <patrick_h_lauke> ...and we need to fix respec warnings (must have just been a change in respec), so we'll add v2-blocking
16:24:59 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: I'll take that issue
16:25:11 <rbyers> Topic: any other issues to address before CR?
16:25:24 <rbyers> Assigned the ReSpec warnings to Patrick: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/163
16:26:12 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: not sure about process, but what happens once we have all blocking issues resolved and we're ready to go to CR. what next? Patrick?
16:26:23 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: I'll need to check with PLH
16:26:36 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: will PLH let us go to rec if we have ref to WHATWG DOM?
16:26:43 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: I thought we had resolved that...
16:26:58 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: they're working on adding missing piece to W3C DOM, so we can probably wait until then
16:27:24 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: we had similar issue in websec (?). whatwg links, while not loved, are ok-ish
16:27:31 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: it shouldn't be a political mine field
16:27:39 <rbyers> What about: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/135
16:27:44 <patrick_h_lauke> we have this one issue outstanding...
16:28:00 <patrick_h_lauke> "What is the relationship between setPointerCapture, PointerLock, and browser default behaviors?"
16:28:18 <patrick_h_lauke> The questions in those issues are good, and yes they should be clarified
16:28:43 <patrick_h_lauke> There are behaviors that are undefined, but critically there are differences in behavior between Chrome and Edge which we should address before rec
16:28:56 <patrick_h_lauke> one of those is difference in movement, which i think Edge is fixing?
16:28:57 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: correct
16:29:33 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: related https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/131
16:29:41 <patrick_h_lauke> "Incorrect movementX/Y in PointerEvents"
16:30:51 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: once locked, you have no X/Y coordinates as such as you have infinite "field", so movementX/Y are needed
16:31:07 <patrick_h_lauke> we should check how Edge and Chrome differ
16:31:37 <patrick_h_lauke> We don't need spec change, need a test and bug in blink
16:33:03 <patrick_h_lauke> If we were just doing the weird/special case for just mouse, then spec would need to change. if we do it consistently for all PE, no need to spec change
16:34:02 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: do we need some non-normative note in PE to define how PointerLock behaves with PE, or is this something that the PointerLock folks should think about?
16:34:49 <patrick_h_lauke> Mustaq (?): i don't quite agree with the concept as currently implemented [sorry, missing some of the detail here]
16:35:54 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: [...] if there's a bug between Blink and PointerLock spec (relating to movement props returning 0), then we should file a bug against that spec
16:36:31 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: i don't see movementX/Y being cleared on leave (?)
16:37:33 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: back to Patrick's question about the need to mention relationship/interaction with PointerLock, it's certainly something we should look into to decide if/where it needs to be mentioned/clarified
16:38:02 <rbyers> Assigned https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/135 to Navid
16:39:06 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: AOB?
16:39:21 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: not particularly pressing, just find it interesting about pointerType:'dial' https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/152
16:39:37 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: question is really one for Microsoft if THEY are going to expose this or not
16:39:51 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: nothing in the upcoming release, nothing decided yet
16:42:18 <rbyers> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/107
16:42:34 <patrick_h_lauke> "PointerEvents should have fractional coordinates"
16:43:36 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: blink and edge have coords as double. maybe it's time to ask DOM UI spec to change this
16:44:50 <patrick_h_lauke> [looking for info on Firefox implementation]
16:45:14 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: they're "long"
16:45:19 <dtapuska> http://searchfox.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/webidl/MouseEvent.webidl
16:45:23 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: still, if Edge and Chrome match on this....
16:45:29 <patrick_h_lauke> let's check webkit on this
16:46:18 <dtapuska> https://github.com/WebKit/webkit/blob/master/Source/WebCore/dom/MouseEvent.idl
16:46:23 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: they're long in webkit
16:47:04 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: depending on how UI events spec defines this, e.g. if they say that mouse events truncate, we could add and say PE *don't* truncate. will file issue on UI events
16:47:44 <rbyers> Historical points: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/22
16:47:51 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: we have other issues that are important, but not v2-blocking. e.g. historical points API
16:48:08 <dtapuska> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/4408#issuecomment-271680588
16:48:10 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: one discussion on web platform tests
16:48:35 <patrick_h_lauke> trying to spec to and from element, and i asked how pointer event ends up...
16:50:20 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: if we were just matching mouse events, that'd be no issue (just where test belongs)
16:50:41 <patrick_h_lauke> we should have our own tests, not somebody from ui events needing to do PE tests on their side
16:50:45 <patrick_h_lauke> i'll file issue on our repo
16:52:52 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: there IS an interop issue today on this, so we should call it v2-blocking
16:52:59 <patrick_h_lauke> mustaq to look into this
16:54:22 <patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/22
16:54:47 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: question if that old issue is now a dupe of historical points API
16:54:58 <rbyers> For fromElement/toElement I've filed https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/167 as v2-blocking
16:55:43 <patrick_h_lauke> Patrick: ah, we don't have a history API issue, so not a dupe...
16:56:10 <rbyers> What about https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/161 ?
16:56:50 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: sounds like just editorial
16:57:45 <patrick_h_lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/16
16:57:52 <patrick_h_lauke> "setPointerCapture should say something about iframes"
16:59:22 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: we should define that setPointerCapture can fail in sandboxed iframes
16:59:29 <patrick_h_lauke> but not v2-blocking
17:01:19 <patrick_h_lauke> if we could add "allow pointer capture" to the html spec...
17:01:30 <patrick_h_lauke> does pointer lock spec say anything in its spec?
17:01:49 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: yes, it has phrasing in spec
17:02:24 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: should be simple pull request to html spec. we should add it quickly before it's relied on
17:02:36 <patrick_h_lauke> and then we add matching reference in PE spec
17:02:42 <patrick_h_lauke> i'll file spec issues
17:03:12 <patrick_h_lauke> we could make it v2-blocking. Ted any hope this can go out to Edge quickly?
17:03:27 <patrick_h_lauke> Ted: I can have conversation, but not hopeful that it can be done quickly
17:03:39 <patrick_h_lauke> dtapuska: we can add it to the html spec anyway
17:03:53 <patrick_h_lauke> Rick: let's not mark as v2-blocking then, it's trivial (for blink to implement)
17:04:38 <patrick_h_lauke> ACTION: Patrick to check with PLH about publication process etc
17:04:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - Check with plh about publication process etc [on Patrick Lauke - due 2017-01-18].
17:06:17 <patrick_h_lauke> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-minutes.html patrick_h_lauke
17:06:25 <patrick_h_lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:06:55 <patrick_h_lauke> rrsagent, bye
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ted to check with team, find use case/rationale for Edge behavior [1]
17:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-15-32
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Navid to send current Chrome test result details to public-pointer-events with a chrome or spec bug link for each outstanding failure. [2]
17:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-20
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ted to send current Edge test result details to list [3]
17:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-47
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ted to send current test results for Edge to public-pointer-events with bug links for any outstanding failures. [4]
17:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-20-57
17:06:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to check with PLH about publication process etc [5]
17:06:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/11-pointerevents-irc#T17-04-38