13:34:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
13:34:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/21-forms-irc
13:34:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:34:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:34:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:34:14 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:34:14 <trackbot> Date: 21 December 2016
13:35:31 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0048
13:35:43 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0048
13:35:49 <Steven> Chair: Steven
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14:01:14 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Philip, Steven
14:01:27 <Steven> Topic: submission/@ref
14:01:27 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0044.html
14:02:22 <Steven> Steven: "Does anyone have any objection to describing it as a Single Item Binding?"
14:02:34 <Steven> Alain: OK for me
14:02:40 <Steven> Philip: Yes
14:02:55 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2087 - in-scope evaluation context
14:02:55 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0047.html
14:02:55 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0045.html
14:03:23 <Steven> Steven: "If a binding evaluates to an empty sequence, any contained bindings are
14:03:23 <Steven> not evaluated. "
14:03:54 <Steven> Steven: Do we need this sentence?
14:05:29 <Steven> ... What would stop working?
14:05:55 <ebruchez> <group ref="()"><input ref="."/></group>
14:06:02 <Steven> Erik: What examples would be covered?
14:06:16 <ebruchez> <group ref="()"><input ref="instance()"/></group>
14:06:33 <Steven> Erik: There are two aspects
14:06:48 <Steven> ... if a group is non-relevant, the contents is non-relevant
14:07:08 <Steven> ... from an XPath viewpoint, you could have an expression that evaluates properly
14:07:23 <Steven> Steven: This example:
14:07:40 <Steven>    <group ref="()"><output ref="1"/></group>
14:08:04 <Steven> Steven: ASo you say that if we don't have that line, this would still output 1?
14:08:13 <Steven> Erik: It is a question of relevance
14:09:10 <Steven> Steven: SO my question remains. Are there examples for the need of the original sentence?
14:09:15 <Steven> s/SO/So/
14:09:49 <ebruchez> <bind ref="()"><bind ref="instance()"></bind>
14:09:51 <Steven> S/ASo/So/
14:10:45 <Steven> Steven: I think in this case the inner bind would work
14:10:58 <ebruchez> <bind ref="1 to 10"><bind ref="instance()"></bind>
14:11:24 <ebruchez> <bind ref="a"><bind ref="instance()"></bind>
14:11:38 <Steven> Erik: And there are ten a's
14:11:51 <Steven> ... I would get 10 inner binds
14:12:06 <Steven> ... and with 0 a's I would get one inner bind
14:12:17 <Steven> ... so this sentence ensures that you get no inner binds.
14:12:37 <Steven> Steven: Thanks for the example. Then the sentence stays.
14:13:17 <Steven> Erik: Though I'm only half convinced
14:13:40 <Steven> ... bind is a Sequence binding which we handle, and so the inner bind doesn't get evaluated.
14:13:50 <Steven> Steven: I see what you mean.
14:14:08 <Steven> Erik: Yes, my binding example would work fine with or without the sentence.
14:15:24 <Steven> Erik: I think relevance takes care of all other cases.
14:15:48 <Steven> ... so I think you can remove the sentence.
14:15:54 <Steven> Steven: Alright. Great.
14:17:29 <Steven> Topic: insert and delete (when at is out of bounds)
14:17:29 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0090.html
14:17:29 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0036.html
14:18:42 <Steven> Steven: I put this on the agenda because I realised we don't have any error events that allow you to proceed without further action.
14:20:09 <Steven> ... and while I was rewriting the text I got cold feet. But I have now persuaded myself that generating an error event is OK; you can still catch it and ignore it.
14:22:25 <Steven> Topic: Serialization as multipart/related
14:22:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0006.html
14:22:25 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0030.html
14:22:50 <Steven> Steven: It looks like a good proposal
14:23:02 <Steven> ... but I need more time to think about the design and consequences
14:23:30 <Steven> Erik: Trying to implement this is very specific in XForns, without any real control
14:23:39 <Steven> s/Forns/Forms/
14:23:56 <Steven> Steven: Is there a lot of demand for multipart?
14:24:02 <Steven> Alain: We implemented
14:24:15 <Steven> ... I think it gets used.
14:25:00 <Steven> Steven: I see a lot of similarities in your proposal Erik with how we treat headers for instance, so I think we can unify the treatment.
14:25:27 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:25:53 <Steven> Steven: Next call is January 11th\
14:26:55 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:26:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/21-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:31:50 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to make submission/@ref a Single Item Binding
14:31:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2106 - Make submission/@ref a single item binding [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-28].
14:32:31 <Steven> ACTION: Steve to adopt new Evaluation Context text
14:32:33 <trackbot> Error finding 'Steve'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
14:32:42 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to adopt new Evaluation Context text
14:32:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2107 - Adopt new evaluation context text [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-28].
14:33:06 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:33:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/21-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:13:08 <Steven> Action-2107?
15:13:08 <trackbot> Action-2107 -- Steven Pemberton to Adopt new evaluation context text -- due 2016-12-28 -- OPEN
15:13:08 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/2107
15:13:17 <Steven> close action-2107
15:13:24 <Steven> close action-2106
15:13:25 <trackbot> Error closing: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
15:13:33 <trackbot> Error closing: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
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