00:13:55 stan has joined #wpwg 00:20:34 mountie has joined #wpwg 01:57:10 olivexu1 has joined #wpwg 01:57:53 betehess has joined #wpwg 02:11:56 Max has joined #wpwg 02:47:06 adamlake has joined #wpwg 03:15:07 Adam_ has joined #wpwg 03:36:21 olivexu1 has joined #wpwg 04:07:01 betehess has joined #wpwg 05:12:33 stan has joined #wpwg 06:08:28 betehess_ has joined #wpwg 14:03:23 RRSAgent has joined #wpwg 14:03:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/16-wpwg-irc 14:03:34 Meeting: Credit Transfer Spec 14:03:38 Regrets+ Cyril 14:03:41 present+ Ian 14:03:43 present+ Kris 14:03:45 present+ Vincent 14:03:47 present+ Todd 14:04:19 Topic: Introductions 14:04:32 Vkuntz has joined #wpwg 14:04:48 kriske has joined #wpwg 14:05:15 present+ kriske 14:05:28 present+ AdrianHB 14:09:10 Present+ vkuntz 14:12:04 https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/blob/gh-pages/proposals/supported-networks-list.md 14:12:36 Questions: 14:12:46 1) What are the credit transfer systems we should look at? 14:12:54 (ACH, SEPA, BACS, CHAPS) 14:13:01 2) What are the common data fields? 14:13:28 ...and is there a source of labels for these? (Cyril suggests starting with the SEPA rule book for inspiration)_ 14:13:42 3) What will the filter language look like? 14:13:50 4) Who will take the next steps on editing? 14:14:39 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/ 14:15:59 Chair: Ian 14:16:01 scribe: Ian 14:16:04 Topic: What systems? 14:16:13 Vkuntz: SEPA may be a good starting point, but it's restricted to EU 14:16:30 ...I think we should focus on low-value payments 14:16:58 ...and maybe one good angle to look at is everything that has been defined under the CGI guidelines 14:17:05 ...the common global implementation for ISO 20022 14:17:16 ...that's useful because effort has already been made to think globally 14:17:29 Todd: +1 for low value 14:18:04 [Spec note: include a design guidelines section that mentions that our focus was low-value payments] 14:18:26 https://www.swift.com/standards/market-practice/common-global-implementation 14:18:53 https://www.swift.com/standards/market-practice/common-global-implementation/document-centre?category=12001 14:19:00 Adam_ has joined #wpwg 14:19:47 todd_a_ has joined #wpwg 14:20:07 https://www.swift.com/file/30571/download?token=U90xX1U1 14:20:39 Vkuntz: Guidelines are published as a spreadsheet 14:21:24 ...it has the base elements we need to consider 14:21:45 Kris: Do we mean that we have all the potential use cases captured ... or just general? 14:23:13 IJ: Is country party of the filtering language? 14:23:27 Vkuntz: To provide some background on CGI - it's corporate to bank space 14:23:53 ...they have three types of elements: mandatory / conditional / not desired 14:24:18 ...they left it up to each domain to define their own format (e.g., for ACH, do this) 14:25:12 kriske: If we were to say "given that this is the requirement from a banking perspective"...would it be a leap of faith to say "actually from a financial institution point of view we have the requirements necessary to support any clearing system globally"? 14:25:18 Vkuntz: Yes, I think 14:27:24 IJ: What's the relationship between the CGI work and the ISO 20022 work? 14:27:37 Vkuntz: CGI is a spin-off of ISO 20022..it is a practical guide 14:28:22 country specific info from cg => https://www.swift.com/file/30586/download?token=h6rwp3p4 14:30:28 Reiterate: this is for consumer to merchant payments 14:30:35 Vkuntz: CGI is more for corporate to bank space 14:31:18 ...there is an important question of what banks can accept (e.g., from a specific country) 14:32:00 IJ: Does merchant need to filter on system or ALSO region./country 14:32:08 Todd, Kris, Vincent: You will also need to identify region or country 14:32:39 Vkuntz: if the consumer is initiating the payment, then the restrictions are between user and their local bank 14:34:03 IJ: Should we limit scope to "user-initiated"? 14:34:15 Todd: I think we should make it one-directional - consumer initiates the payment 14:35:26 kriske: When you do a web payment and your merchant has an account somewhere abroad 14:35:33 ...so the consumer and merchant are not in the same country... 14:35:44 ...so somewhere there is a bank transfer between banks in 2 countries... 14:35:48 ..is that supported here? 14:36:00 Vkuntz: CGI is relevant 14:36:42 ...there's another situation where the payment provider initiates the payment on behalf of the consumer 14:36:58 ...the payment provider has the credentials of the consumer 14:37:09 ...and the payment provider can inform the merchant that the payment has been made. 14:37:29 ...this works in the context of sepa and cross border 14:37:35 ..but if fees are involved, it's a different question 14:38:54 kriske: As a consumer buying something in Europe at a store in the US, is that workable here? 14:40:34 betehess has joined #wpwg 14:41:18 kriske: For a card payment, the networks are global. With credit transfers, it's more regional. For credit transfers internationally, it may not be as easy 14:41:25 Vkuntz: It's both simple and complex. 14:41:56 ..if you want to initiate a payment is the merchant bank info...in corresponding banking, you have standard settlement instructions 14:42:12 ..so the initiating bank will know that they have to go through this or that route to reach a destination bank 14:43:13 Vkuntz: The merchant has to provide the name of their own account. The routing information is defined elsewhere (agreements between banks) 14:44:23 Todd: on the merchant side, the merchant needs to publish a list of countries that they accept payments from. 14:44:45 (IJ: ISO country codes => http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/country_code_list.htm ) 14:45:06 Vkuntz: The banks have to comply with various compliance rules 14:45:26 ..e.g, a US bank would lose a license if doing business with a country it should not do business with 14:46:17 adrianhb: There's more complexity in credit transfers due to lots of 1-1 relationships 14:46:58 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/ 14:46:59 there are not global OCT schemes 14:48:46 IJ: What is the analogy here for "visa, amex, discover"? 14:49:45 Todd: the merchant would say "I accept credit payments from the US" 14:50:07 kris: The merchant would probably, as part of the API, say "these are the countries I support in a credit transfer environment" 14:50:33 Suppose our payment method identifier is "credit-transfer" 14:50:47 Filtering: 14:50:54 Merchant says "from these countries" 14:51:53 App is distributed with a country (or list?) for initiating payment 14:52:12 kriske: The user should have limited choice...they have a bank account in a given country. 14:52:36 ...so matching is whether the merchant accepts payments from the country of the bank of the consumer 14:52:53 ...it's based on the country of the user's bank 14:53:33 IJ: Can a bank have a global reach and do transfers from mutliple countries? 14:53:44 Todd: Yes, they can initiate cross-border payments... 14:53:55 ...but cross-border may not transfer well ; there are hoops 14:55:26 IJ: From a spec perspective, should there be a list of countries? Is that a real world situation? 14:55:41 Vkuntz: The critical bits are: 14:55:48 - transaction amount 14:55:54 - type of goods bought or sold 14:55:56 - date of the transaction 14:55:59 - unique reference 14:56:18 ...that's critical in cross-border payments. (this is our PAYMENTREQUESTID) 14:56:24 ...the identification of the merchant in the form of an account 14:56:28 ...bank where the account is located 14:57:29 https://github.com/w3c/browser-payment-api/pull/292 14:58:14 http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/#init-data 14:59:20 ===== 14:59:22 Summary: 14:59:29 1) We should look at CGI as a source of fields 14:59:41 2) Likely filter is on countries rather than on networks 15:00:19 3) We should mention any design considerations in the spec (e.g., low value payment primary use case) 15:00:31 ...also C2B 15:00:46 4) We need review SEPA spec first draft of input and output data 15:01:36 topic: Next actions 15:01:56 1) We should change the title to credit transfer, and update the PMI and introducing filtering on countries 15:02:27 Another note: We may have mandatory data and country-specific data field 15:02:58 Vkuntz: I think you have the mandatory fields in CGI 15:03:14 ..that is the result of asking banks what they need to process payments 15:05:31 IJ: Is there more filtering to do like "ACH v. Wires v. Cheques"? 15:06:04 Vkuntz: Just look at the ACH and Wires columns (and they should be nearly the same) 15:06:28 I need to drop off, Ian 15:07:37 IJ: There are a lot of "Rs" 15:07:53 Vkuntz: Some information is mandatory for the message but doesn't mean it should be in the API 15:12:31 IJ: 20 Jan? 15:13:26 Vkuntz: Let's say 24 January. 15:14:27 ACTION: vkuntz to review the CG required list and send to the WG list (public-payments-wg@w3.org) a list of relevant terms for the API 15:14:27 Created ACTION-42 - Review the cg required list and send to the wg list (public-payments-wg@w3.org) a list of relevant terms for the api [on Vincent Kuntz - due 2016-12-23]. 15:15:55 ACTION: Ian can update the spec to reflect conversation. 15:15:55 'Ian' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., ijacobs, ijmad). 15:16:08 IJ: I will send a summary to the group to ensure Cyril is aware of this direction 15:16:15 ACTION: Ian to create summary of this meeting for the WPWG 15:16:16 'Ian' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., ijacobs, ijmad). 15:16:21 rrsagent, make minutes 15:16:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/16-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 15:16:29 rrsagent, set logs public 15:30:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/16-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 15:38:49 betehess has joined #wpwg 16:09:02 Adam_ has joined #wpwg 16:23:31 Zakim has left #wpwg 16:52:55 stan has joined #wpwg 17:28:29 betehess has joined #wpwg 18:00:49 betehess has joined #wpwg 18:20:24 stan has joined #wpwg 18:50:15 betehess has joined #wpwg 18:57:16 stan has joined #wpwg 19:04:25 betehess has joined #wpwg 20:09:47 betehess has joined #wpwg 20:46:29 adamR has joined #wpwg 20:56:23 adamR has joined #wpwg 21:00:13 betehess has joined #wpwg 21:09:50 realdave has joined #wpwg 21:10:09 manu has joined #wpwg 21:16:12 betehess has joined #wpwg 21:38:44 betehess has joined #wpwg 21:52:09 betehess has joined #wpwg 21:57:06 betehess has joined #wpwg 22:03:29 stan has joined #wpwg 22:59:51 betehess has joined #wpwg 23:04:49 betehess has joined #wpwg 23:06:47 adamlake has joined #wpwg 23:32:12 betehess has joined #wpwg 23:57:05 stan has joined #wpwg