IRC log of aapi on 2016-12-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:42:26 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:42:26 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/13-aapi-irc
19:42:28 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
19:42:28 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #aapi
19:42:30 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be
19:42:30 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:42:31 [trackbot]: Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:42:31 [trackbot]: Date: 13 December 2016
19:42:43 [clown1]: chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:42:47 [clown1]: agenda: this
19:43:03 [clown1]: agenda+ Meeting next week (Dec 20).
19:43:12 [clown1]: agenda+ UIA mappings (Joseph/Bogdan) Finished and closed.
19:43:24 [clown1]: agenda+ ACTION-2066: (Joseph) Include spec text in 5.6.4 for automatic computation of posinset and setsize for menuitems.
19:43:35 [clown1]: agenda+ ISSUE-654/ACTION-2130: (Joanie) Determine if AX API supports description changes.
19:43:45 [clown1]: agenda+ ISSUE-618/ACTION-2129: (Rich) Deal with Cynthia's single-selection-changed-event test file.
19:43:52 [clown1]: agenda+ Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
19:44:07 [clown]: agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:44:15 [clown]: agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:44:22 [clown]: agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:44:30 [clown]: agenda+ be done.
19:47:32 [clown]: clown has joined #aapi
19:56:44 [Rich]: Rich has joined #aapi
20:01:42 [joanie]: present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:01:46 [joanie]: scribe: joanie
20:02:07 [clown]: present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:05:22 [joanie]: Zakim, take up item 1
20:05:22 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Meeting next week (Dec 20)." taken up [from clown1]
20:05:55 [joanie]: JS: The decision is to not meet next week because there are not enough people around.
20:06:13 [joanie]: RS: The ARIA Working Group meeting is not going to occur this week.
20:06:32 [joanie]: present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
20:06:49 [joanie]: present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:07:32 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:07:32 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "UIA mappings (Joseph/Bogdan) Finished and closed." taken up [from clown1]
20:07:55 [joanie]: JS: All of Bogdan's stuff has been merged into master.
20:08:07 [joanie]: JS: I think we're done with UIA mappings and ready for it to go to testing.
20:08:37 [bgaraventa1979]: bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:08:57 [bgaraventa1979]: present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:08:58 [joanie]: JS: Reminder: We have mappings for aria-haspopup, roles for range-related widgets and for new table properties, feed, and aria-details.
20:09:18 [joanie]: RS: Firefox supports the feed role.
20:10:13 [clown]: s/Reminder: We have mappings for/Reminder: We have UIA mappings for/
20:10:32 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:10:32 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "ACTION-2066: (Joseph) Include spec text in 5.6.4 for automatic computation of posinset and setsize for menuitems." taken up [from clown1]
20:10:37 [clown]: action-2066
20:10:37 [trackbot]: action-2066 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Include spec. text in 5.6.4 for automatic computation of posinset and setsize for menuitems and their subclasses. -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN
20:10:37 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2066
20:10:52 [joanie]: JS: I came across this action and thought I could knock it off really quickly.
20:11:07 [joanie]: JS: Then looking at it I concluded it may already be done.
20:11:35 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_additional_position
20:11:47 [joanie]: JS: The above link is where it would be added.
20:11:59 [joanie]: JS: Third paragraph down begins (reads from spec)
20:12:09 [clown]: Otherwise, walk backward and forward within the DOM parent, counting items that have the same role.
20:12:14 [joanie]: JS: The above is from the spec
20:13:22 [joanie]: JS: (Discusses some language changes)
20:14:33 [joanie]: JS: Change "DOM parent" to "DOM parent or parent defined by aria-owns"
20:15:20 [joanie]: JD: Parent or ancestor?
20:15:44 [joanie]: JS: I think I will leave it as proposed until someone complains.
20:16:59 [joanie]: JS: For "walk backward and forward within the DOM parent", "process the DOM parent counting items the have the same role."
20:17:08 [joanie]: RS: These are normative changes, right?
20:17:10 [joanie]: JS: Yes.
20:17:39 [joanie]: JS: I think it might be good to also add a statement to the effect of, "If the role supports aria-posinset and aria-setsize...."
20:17:58 [joanie]: JS: This is just so that people don't think they have to always calculate it.
20:18:08 [joanie]: JS: If I make the above changes, do we agree that covers menuitems?
20:19:03 [joanie]: JS: If I add special language for menuitems, then I think I have to do so with option and other roles to which these properties apply.
20:19:41 [joanie]: JS: I think we can cover all the applicable roles with a blanket statement such as "if the role supports aria-posinset and aria-setsize...."
20:20:30 [clown]: "Otherwise, if the role supports aria-posinset and aria-setsize, process the parent (DOM parent or parent defined by aria-owns), counting items that have the same role"
20:20:47 [joanie]: BG: Can you have aria-posinset without aria-setsize?
20:21:10 [joanie]: JS: This is about user agent calculating the values if the author didn't provide it.
20:21:25 [joanie]: s/provide it/provide them/
20:21:53 [joanie]: JS: There is a special case for treeitem.
20:21:56 [joanie]: JS: (Reads)
20:22:36 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_additional_position
20:23:06 [joanie]: JS: 'for role="treeitem", walk the tree backward and forward until the explicit or computed level becomes less than the current item's level. Count items only if they are at the same level as the current item.'
20:23:20 [joanie]: JS: Is what is currently in the spec.
20:23:57 [joanie]: s/spec./spec for aria-posinset and aria-setsize for treeitem elements/
20:24:25 [joanie]: JS: Do my changes satisfy this action?
20:24:33 [joanie]: action-2066
20:24:33 [trackbot]: action-2066 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Include spec. text in 5.6.4 for automatic computation of posinset and setsize for menuitems and their subclasses. -- due 2016-05-19 -- OPEN
20:24:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2066
20:24:37 [joanie]: RS: I think so, yes.
20:25:12 [joanie]: JS: Then I will add a note to the action to make the agreed-upon changes to the bullets we just discussed.
20:25:18 [joanie]: JS: Then I will close this action.
20:25:31 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:25:31 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "ISSUE-654/ACTION-2130: (Joanie) Determine if AX API supports description changes." taken up [from clown1]
20:25:40 [clown]: action-2130?
20:25:40 [trackbot]: action-2130 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if AX AXPI supports an event if the accessible description changes. -- due 2016-12-13 -- OPEN
20:25:40 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2130
20:25:59 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#events
20:26:10 [joanie]: JD: Sorry, I have not gotten to this yet.
20:26:24 [joanie]: JS: You were also going to check the event for name-changed.
20:27:38 [joanie]: JD: I'll do it next week on the 20th.
20:27:44 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:27:44 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "ISSUE-618/ACTION-2129: (Rich) Deal with Cynthia's single-selection-changed-event test file." taken up [from clown1]
20:27:58 [clown]: ACTION-2129
20:27:58 [trackbot]: ACTION-2129 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Deal with Cynthia's test file referenced in issue-618 -- due 2016-12-13 -- OPEN
20:27:58 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2129
20:28:02 [joanie]: JS: Rich, you had an action last week to deal with this orphaned test file.
20:28:17 [joanie]: RS: I'm going to add it, but we've had problems with the password.
20:28:36 [joanie]: JS: This is the wiki?
20:28:38 [joanie]: RS: Yes.
20:30:06 [joanie]: JS: The action also indicates you should talk to Joanie and Shane about events.
20:30:51 [joanie]: RS: I'll tackle this in January.
20:33:22 [joanie]: RS: I can now log in.
20:35:51 [joanie]: RS: It's now at the very end as a TODO: https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Selection_Events_for_MSAA_for_Single_Selection
20:36:33 [joanie]: RS: I'll also work on updating the testable statements for UIA.
20:37:00 [joanie]: RS: Can you move the action and issue to the test plan product?
20:37:09 [joanie]: JS: Done.
20:38:58 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:38:58 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23" taken up [from clown1]
20:39:20 [clown]: issue-647
20:39:20 [trackbot]: issue-647 -- Should aria-hidden=false put things in the tree, or stay a no-op as it is now, and done in the 1.1 timeframe? -- open
20:39:20 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/647
20:39:47 [clown]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945194
20:42:20 [joanie]: JS: The associated Mozilla bug has been closed as WONTFIX.
20:42:33 [joanie]: JS: Does that make this issue an ARIA 2.0 item?
20:42:55 [joanie]: JD: I'm re-reading the Mozilla issue. But I do not like aria-hidden="false".
20:43:07 [joanie]: JD: I'm ok with aria-hidden="true".
20:43:53 [joanie]: JD: Some of my concerns were stated here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=945194#c60
20:44:31 [joanie]: BG: For what it's worth, I don't like aria-hidden="false" either.
20:45:14 [joanie]: BG: There are, and have been, issues related to this for quite a while now.
20:45:55 [joanie]: BG + JS: There are interoperability issues because Firefox won't override exposure for non-rendered content, but Safari includes it in the tree.
20:45:59 [joanie]: JS: So what do we do?
20:46:48 [joanie]: JD: Was this introduced in ARIA 1.1? In other words is it at risk?
20:46:52 [joanie]: JS: No.
20:47:39 [joanie]: JS: At some point in the 1.1 timeframe, it took on additional meaning such as overriding display:none.
20:47:49 [joanie]: JS: But the spec mapping is "not mapped."
20:48:43 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHiddenFalse
20:49:11 [joanie]: JS: But do we do about the issue?
20:50:43 [joanie]: JD: Do we want a statement in some spec so that authors are made aware of this?
20:50:51 [clown]: https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-hidden
20:51:05 [joanie]: JD: There's a note here https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-hidden
20:51:56 [joanie]: JD: That is something I can live with
20:52:03 [joanie]: JS: So we can close the issue?
20:52:09 [joanie]: JD: As far as I'm concerned.
20:52:13 [joanie]: JS: Objections?
20:52:38 [joanie]: Note text: At the time of this writing, aria-hidden="false" is known to work inconsistently in browsers. As future implementations improve, use caution and test thoroughly before relying on this approach.
20:53:03 [joanie]: JS: Since no one is objecting, I am going to close this after indicating in the issue why we're closing it.
20:54:05 [clown]: issue-714?
20:54:05 [trackbot]: issue-714 -- Need mappings for aria-roledesription -- open
20:54:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/714
20:54:05 [joanie]: issue-714
20:54:05 [trackbot]: issue-714 -- Need mappings for aria-roledesription -- open
20:54:06 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/714
20:54:16 [joanie]: JD: Why is this open? All the actions are closed.
20:54:31 [joanie]: RS: Mac?
20:54:36 [joanie]: JS: There.
20:54:42 [joanie]: JS: All the mappings are present.
20:55:02 [joanie]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaRoleDescription
20:55:09 [joanie]: JS: I'll close it.
20:56:20 [joanie]: issue-737
20:56:20 [trackbot]: issue-737 -- Determine platform mappings for new "term" role introduced in ARIA 1.1 -- open
20:56:20 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/737
20:56:22 [clown]: issue-738
20:56:22 [trackbot]: issue-738 -- UIA mapping for heading incorrect -- open
20:56:22 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/738
20:56:55 [joanie]: JS: We waiting on UIA and AXAPI on issues-737
20:57:12 [joanie]: issue-738
20:57:12 [trackbot]: issue-738 -- UIA mapping for heading incorrect -- open
20:57:12 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/738
20:57:25 [joanie]: JS: This was raised by Cynthia.
20:57:46 [joanie]: JS: (Reads issue)
20:57:52 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-heading
20:57:53 [joanie]: RS: What did Bogdan do?
20:58:02 [joanie]: JS: It still says, "text"
20:58:09 [clown]: issue739
20:58:16 [clown]: issue-739
20:58:16 [trackbot]: issue-739 -- UIA doesn't support heading without level, how should we map role=heading without aria-level? -- closed
20:58:16 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/739
20:58:39 [joanie]: JS: It also references issue-739 which has been fixed and closed.
20:58:53 [joanie]: JS: There is nothing in the UIA mapping other than text.
20:59:35 [joanie]: JS: And Cynthia says it also needs heading styleID in the texct pattern run.
20:59:42 [joanie]: JS: I will email Bogdan.
21:02:15 [joanie]: Zakim, part
21:02:15 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Richard_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa
21:02:15 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #aapi
21:02:53 [joanie]: scribeOptions: -final
21:02:59 [joanie]: RRSAgent, stop