IRC log of aapi on 2016-12-06

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19:51:04 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:51:06 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be
19:51:06 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:51:07 [trackbot]: Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:51:08 [trackbot]: Date: 06 December 2016
19:52:17 [clown]: chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:52:31 [clown]: agenda: this
19:53:00 [clown]: agenda+ ACTION-2120: (Joseph/Bogdan) UIA: clean up mapping for aria-haspopup.
19:53:12 [clown]: agenda+ ACTION-2070: (Joseph/Bogdan) Add UIA Range Value Pattern to the range related roles in the role mapping table (e.g., slider).
19:53:19 [clown]: agenda+ ISSUE-1038: (Bogdan) Mappings for feed, figure, term, and UIA in general.
19:53:35 [clown]: agenda+ ISSUE-618: (All) Orphan test file.
19:53:43 [clown]: agenda+ ISSUE-705: (Rich) Harmonize the list of mappings for MSAA, UIA, IA2, and possibly other platforms.
19:53:58 [clown]: agenda+ ISSUE-654: (All) Add label and description changes to change event section.
19:54:05 [clown]: agenda+ Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
19:54:10 [clown]: agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:54:16 [clown]: agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:54:23 [clown]: agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:54:29 [clown]: agenda+ be done.
19:58:58 [clown]: present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:00:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]: richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
20:00:33 [joanie]: present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:00:37 [joanie]: scribe: joanie
20:04:22 [clown]: present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:05:08 [bgaraventa1979]: bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:05:08 [clown]: present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:05:38 [bgaraventa1979]: present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:08:50 [joanie]: Zakim, take up item 1
20:08:50 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "ACTION-2120: (Joseph/Bogdan) UIA: clean up mapping for aria-haspopup." taken up [from clown]
20:08:59 [clown]: action-2120?
20:08:59 [trackbot]: action-2120 -- Bogdan Brinza to UIA: clean up mapping for aria-haspopup -- due 2016-10-18 -- CLOSED
20:08:59 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2120
20:09:08 [joanie]: JS: We talked about this last week.
20:09:21 [joanie]: JS: There was something in his original wording about aria-expanded.
20:09:25 [clown]: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/467#issuecomment-263687119
20:09:38 [joanie]: JS: You (Rich) wrote a comment in github indicating it would not work (URL above).
20:09:49 [joanie]: JS: He reworded it, you (Rich) said it was fine.
20:09:51 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue
20:09:53 [joanie]: JS: So I've merged it in.
20:10:11 [joanie]: JS: The URL above is an example (aria-haspopup="true")
20:10:18 [joanie]: JS: (Reads from spec)
20:10:30 [joanie]: RS: That it's an "if" (i.e. if the author has put it)
20:10:47 [joanie]: JS: Correction, I thought I had done the changes but I guess I did not.
20:10:52 [joanie]: JS: I have it locally.
20:10:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]: Implement ExpandCollapse Control Pattern. If the element has aria-expanded (state), set the ExpandCollapseState property to match it.
20:10:59 [joanie]: RS: I see it updated.
20:11:06 [joanie]: RS: The text above is what I am seeing.
20:11:20 [joanie]: JS: Firefox is showing me the old wording.
20:11:31 [joanie]: JS: Chrome shows the correct wording.
20:11:41 [joanie]: RS: You good?
20:11:48 [joanie]: JS: I am good if everyone else is good.
20:13:07 [joanie]: JS: He (Bogdan) has closed the pull request.
20:13:12 [joanie]: JS: So I want to close the action.
20:13:15 [joanie]: RS: Ok.
20:13:26 [joanie]: JS: It's already closed. Bogdan closed it this morning.
20:13:34 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:13:34 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "ACTION-2070: (Joseph/Bogdan) Add UIA Range Value Pattern to the range related roles in the role mapping table (e.g., slider)." taken up [from clown]
20:13:39 [clown]: action-2070?
20:13:39 [trackbot]: action-2070 -- Bogdan Brinza to Add UIA Range Value Pattern to the range related roles in the role mapping table (e.g., slider). -- due 2016-07-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:13:39 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2070
20:14:00 [joanie]: JS: This is something to do with the range value pattern as it applies to slider, scrollbar, and the like.
20:14:08 [clown]: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/495
20:14:08 [joanie]: JS: He had a pull request.
20:14:19 [joanie]: JS: I looked at it yesterday, but it wasn't different.
20:14:26 [joanie]: JS: It appears that he updated it yesterday.
20:14:37 [joanie]: JS: Oh, he's combined it with figure, term, etc.
20:14:41 [joanie]: RS: Branch?
20:14:44 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/boggydigital/aria/ACTION-2103/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-feed
20:14:53 [joanie]: JS: Link above for feed, which is the first one.
20:15:01 [joanie]: RS: Looks ok to me.
20:15:08 [joanie]: RS: Didn't we look at these last week?
20:15:12 [joanie]: JS: Figure looks good.
20:15:16 [joanie]: RS: Yup.
20:15:25 [joanie]: JS: Next is term, with control type of list item.
20:15:28 [joanie]: RS: OK
20:15:36 [joanie]: JS: Matches MSAA
20:15:44 [joanie]: JS: Next is aria-colcount.
20:15:48 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/boggydigital/aria/ACTION-2103/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaColCount
20:16:12 [joanie]: RS: colindex goes on grid item, colspan does too.
20:16:16 [joanie]: RS: Looks good.
20:16:28 [joanie]: RS: rowcount goes on the grid.
20:16:36 [joanie]: JS: rowindex and rowspan also look good.
20:16:39 [joanie]: RS: Yup.
20:16:45 [joanie]: JS: Where did he do the range thing?
20:17:15 [joanie]: JS: He is doing something with a "range value pattern."
20:17:22 [joanie]: JS: It should be on slider.
20:17:39 [joanie]: JS: It says implement range control pattern. I think that's the new piece.
20:17:42 [joanie]: RS: Makes sense.
20:17:52 [joanie]: JS: On slider, spinbutton, scrollbar....
20:17:59 [joanie]: RS: I think we looked at these last week.
20:18:04 [joanie]: JS: What else is there?
20:18:13 [joanie]: RS: Progressbar
20:18:18 [joanie]: JS: That's the last one.
20:18:29 [joanie]: RS: And he did not do it the same way.
20:18:43 [joanie]: JS: There's an "if" on that one, because it can be indeterminate.
20:18:48 [joanie]: RS: That's odd.
20:18:59 [joanie]: JS: Do we want to ask a questions.
20:19:19 [joanie]: s/questions./question?/
20:19:28 [joanie]: JD: It's a busy indicator.
20:19:38 [joanie]: JS: Actually this is the same text we had.
20:19:43 [joanie]: RS: I think this is ok.
20:19:53 [joanie]: RS: We'll see what happens when we go through the actual testing.
20:20:00 [joanie]: RS: But this is good, he put them all in.
20:20:15 [joanie]: JS: I'll assign it to me as a reminder to pull it.
20:20:25 [joanie]: RS: Did he update the changelog?
20:20:40 [joanie]: JS: I don't think so, but I'll write myself a note to do it.
20:20:52 [joanie]: RS: This should close a lot of issues.
20:21:07 [joanie]: JS: I'll do a due date of tomorrow so it will start popping up later this week.
20:21:42 [joanie]: JS: I'll close it once I do the pull.
20:21:43 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:21:44 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "ISSUE-1038: (Bogdan) Mappings for feed, figure, term, and UIA in general." taken up [from clown]
20:21:50 [clown]: issue-1038?
20:21:50 [trackbot]: issue-1038 -- Need mappings for role="feed", "figure", "term" for all AAPIs -- open
20:21:50 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1038
20:21:56 [joanie]: JS: This one we already dealt with.
20:22:15 [joanie]: JS: But this one also includes James Craig's work as a subaction.
20:22:27 [joanie]: JS: So I won't close this until James Craig does his stuff.
20:22:42 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:22:42 [Zakim]: agendum 3 was just opened, joanie
20:22:47 [joanie]: Zakim, close item 3
20:22:47 [Zakim]: agendum 3, ISSUE-1038: (Bogdan) Mappings for feed, figure, term, and UIA in general., closed
20:22:49 [Zakim]: I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:22:49 [Zakim]: 4. ISSUE-618: (All) Orphan test file. [from clown]
20:22:54 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:22:54 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "ISSUE-618: (All) Orphan test file." taken up [from clown]
20:23:08 [clown]: issue-618?
20:23:08 [trackbot]: issue-618 -- MSAA selection event mapping for single selection case when item becomes unselected -- open
20:23:08 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/618
20:23:14 [joanie]: JS: I went through this yesterday to figure out what it was.
20:23:21 [joanie]: JS: I've since partially forgotten about it.
20:23:35 [joanie]: JS: Buried at the bottom is a comment from Cynthia that she made a test file for this.
20:23:46 [clown]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2014Jun/0007.html
20:23:55 [joanie]: JS: She didn't have a place for the file, so she emailed it to the xtech list (URL above)
20:24:12 [joanie]: JS: I did some digging and talked with Michael to see if the test ever made it into the harness, etc.
20:24:23 [joanie]: JS: We discovered that it only exists in this email.
20:24:42 [joanie]: JS: I'd like to push this off to the testing group to have them decide if they can use it.
20:25:00 [joanie]: JS: Whom can I choose from the testing group for this?
20:25:06 [joanie]: RS: Let me take a look.
20:25:23 [joanie]: RS: What is the test?
20:25:56 [joanie]: JS: It's for mapping when an item becomes unselected in MSAA and you want to see what event is emitted.
20:26:08 [joanie]: JS: I think it's a selection-remove event.
20:26:15 [joanie]: RS: Is it in the spec?
20:26:19 [joanie]: JS: I believe so.
20:26:27 [joanie]: RS: We can add it to the harness.
20:26:44 [joanie]: RS: But I don't know which specific item it belongs to.
20:26:54 [joanie]: JS: There is (and was) no test case for this.
20:27:04 [joanie]: JS: And it wasn't clear what the expected behavior should be.
20:27:21 [joanie]: JS: There was no test case in ARIA 1.0 for this.
20:27:32 [joanie]: JS: Alex told me they use selection-remove in this particular case.
20:27:50 [joanie]: JS: The case being the removal of selection from a single item in a container.
20:28:23 [richardschwerdtfeger]: d
20:28:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1
20:29:17 [clown]: "I've been asking the testing sub-group about this, and the current expectation is that we won't use the /WAI/PF/testharness/ tool at all, it will be fully covered by the automated test harness."
20:29:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
20:29:30 [joanie]: JS: The above statement is what Michael told me.
20:29:49 [joanie]: RS: And the URL I just provided is the right case.
20:30:02 [joanie]: JS: So it sounds like I can give this file to you, Rich.
20:30:14 [joanie]: JS: And you can decide to include it or decide it doesn't belong or whatever.
20:33:34 [joanie]: Group: (Discussion about status of events and testing thereof)
20:33:40 [clown]: action: Rich to deal with Cynthia's test file referenced in ISSUE-618
20:33:41 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2129 - Deal with cynthia's test file referenced in issue-618 [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-12-13].
20:33:50 [richardschwerdtfeger]: action-219?
20:33:50 [trackbot]: Sorry, but action-219 does not exist.
20:33:58 [clown]: action-2129
20:33:58 [trackbot]: action-2129 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Deal with cynthia's test file referenced in issue-618 -- due 2016-12-13 -- OPEN
20:33:58 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2129
20:34:11 [joanie]: JD: We added initial support to the ATTA, but I don't believe anyone has written any assertions yet.
20:35:35 [joanie]: Group: Rich will add this to his TODO list, a new action will be created, Rich will talk to Joanie and Shane before defining anything significant.
20:36:17 [richardschwerdtfeger]: Talk to Shane and Joanie on how to handle events before doing the following:
20:36:18 [richardschwerdtfeger]: Create a testable statement, test case, and expected results:
20:36:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]: https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
20:37:17 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:37:17 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "ISSUE-705: (Rich) Harmonize the list of mappings for MSAA, UIA, IA2, and possibly other platforms." taken up [from clown]
20:37:28 [clown]: issue-705?
20:37:28 [trackbot]: issue-705 -- Harmonize the list of mappings for MSAA, UIA, IA2, and possibly other platforms. -- open
20:37:28 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/705
20:38:33 [joanie]: JS: I have a feeling this issue has been handled.
20:38:45 [joanie]: JS: But have a look at this and tell me if you think this issue is still valid.
20:38:54 [joanie]: JS: You (Rich) sent the original email out.
20:39:23 [joanie]: RS: I thought we went through all of that.
20:39:34 [joanie]: JS: That's my recollection, but I couldn't remember any details.
20:40:38 [joanie]: JS: Are we closing this issue?
20:40:40 [joanie]: RS: Sure.
20:40:43 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:40:43 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "ISSUE-654: (All) Add label and description changes to change event section." taken up [from clown]
20:41:06 [clown]: issue-654?
20:41:06 [trackbot]: issue-654 -- Add label and description changes to section "State and Property Change Events" -- open
20:41:06 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/654
20:41:43 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
20:42:12 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-describedby
20:42:33 [joanie]: JS: This issue is about events.
20:42:44 [joanie]: JS: If the label or description changes, it fires an event.
20:43:05 [joanie]: JS: I think James Teh wanted an event for descriptions, and Firefox put it in.
20:43:08 [clown]: https://w3c.github.io/aria/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#events
20:43:19 [joanie]: JS: I put the mappings in the accname-aam.
20:43:35 [joanie]: JS: If the description changes, an event is fired: description-changed.
20:43:49 [joanie]: JS: No one said you have to pay attention to it. But it's there if you need it.
20:43:54 [joanie]: BG: I brought it up.
20:44:30 [joanie]: BG: I have you a tooltip, and the tooltip element isn't showing/rendered, the description relationship would not be in place until the tooltip was rendered.
20:44:48 [joanie]: JS: The URL I gave has the event mapping for all platforms.
20:45:47 [joanie]: RS: One problem, you have "TBD" for AXAPI's accessible description.
20:46:26 [joanie]: JS: Joanie, would you happen to know off-hand if there's an event for this?
20:46:31 [clown]: action: Joanie to determine if AX API supports an event if the accessible description changes.
20:46:31 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2130 - Determine if ax api supports an event if the accessible description changes. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-12-13].
20:46:35 [joanie]: JD: No, but I can grep through code.
20:46:37 [clown]: action-2130
20:46:37 [trackbot]: action-2130 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if ax api supports an event if the accessible description changes. -- due 2016-12-13 -- OPEN
20:46:37 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2130
20:46:47 [joanie]: JD: But I cannot do it while scribing.
20:46:54 [joanie]: Group: Give Joanie an action.
20:50:06 [joanie]: Zakim, next item
20:50:06 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
20:50:52 [clown]: issue-635
20:50:52 [trackbot]: issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open
20:50:52 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/635
20:51:25 [joanie]: JS: Alex added accessibles for rowgroup.
20:51:46 [joanie]: JS: The last thing is that everyone here, including Cynthia, agreed we should map rowgroup to something in the various accessibility APIs.
20:51:47 [clown]: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
20:52:13 [joanie]: JS: All provided mappings, but AXAPI.
20:52:43 [joanie]: JS: Before, rowgroup was not mapped to anything.
20:53:22 [joanie]: JS: There was a lot of discussion.
20:53:39 [joanie]: JS: James Craig thinks it should not be mapped and Firefox should remove it.
20:54:01 [joanie]: JS: Alex feels that authors could make rowgroups focusable, interactive, etc.
20:54:28 [joanie]: JS: James Craig, I believe, thinks authors should not do that.
20:54:39 [joanie]: RS: I don't think we'll get consensus on this one.
20:54:46 [joanie]: RS: So I would close it as a WONTFIX.
20:55:01 [joanie]: RS: Because we cannot achieve cross-platform consensus.
20:55:16 [joanie]: RS: And it's unlikely this will ever become a real issue.
21:01:27 [joanie]: Zakim, part
21:01:27 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:01:27 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #aapi
21:01:36 [joanie]: scribeOptions: -final
21:01:46 [joanie]: RRSAgent, stop